My thought is that where these words are used with clear and obvious meaning i.e., clear definition (as above), it should be these that determine what otherwise might be considered less clear, and thus avoid presuppositional eisegesis.
For example… Paul’s “principalities” is not referencing so-called “spiritual” ‘entities’ (individuals) BUT ‘hierarchies’ (ranks or rule… Eph 1:21). One OT example demonstrating this meaning would be…
the problem with that, imo, is you are saying every verse with a particular word in it should be interpreted through the simplest verse including that word, rather than the whole context of scripture concerning the topic. That to me is not exegesis. The verses in Ephesians are not so unclear as to need to be strictly categorized under Luke 12 because they are speaking about a different subject. The whole of Ephesians is about heavenly realities, but especially in Ephesians 6:12 the whole expression is pretty clearly transcending simple earthly authorities.
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers(archas), against the authorities(exousias), against the powers(kosmokratas-cosmic powers) of this dark world and against the spiritual forces(pneumatika- spirituals) of evil in the heavenly realms. Eph 6:12
There is a point at which exegesis breaks down under the biases of the individual, and that can apply to you or I, but the entire record of scripture from beginning to end is full of references to supernatural entities. Angels, demons, “sons of God”, Satan, etc. whatever the exact nature of their forms in the spiritual realm or there domains, imo there is no solid exegesis that would not recognizes the “hosts of wickedness in the heavenly realms” as perhaps being something more than just earthy authorities.
Especially the phrase “not against flesh and blood” preceding arche(ruler) and exousia(pricipalities) along with the descriptions kosmoskrats(cosmic powers) and pneumatika tes ponerias(spirituals of evil).
If i were reading the gospels and epistles with all the references to supernatural events excised from them, maybe I could see such a limited view.
Given the immense and intense level and degree of persecution at the hand of the ruling Jewish authorities AND the mindset of the day, I wouldn’t find it too hard to see Paul speaking of these “powers” in terms of those being beyond the “flesh and blood” of his brethren. Such persecuting elites were “world rulers” in Judaism (your “cosmic” is a loaded with all manner of 20th century nuances) and “contrary” (1Thess 2:14-16) to all that is good, described in like terms of “spiritual wickedness” <πονηρίας> ponērias (Lk11:39). Designating said ‘spiritual wickedness’ as “hosts” is BEYOND the text, i.e., it isn’t in the the text.
Again following Paul’s own use of these words (which IS what we have to go off, NOT popular nuances)…
Paul was not suggesting subjection to something (someones) such as “perhaps being something more than just earthy authorities.” No, local and THIS worldly is exactly where Paul’s mindset was at in using these terms.
I’m wondering if the ‘power of the air’ is simply a 'Paulinism" or if, as I suspect, the term was understood by his audience in Ephesus as a part of the Second Temple period patois?
again, Paul was speaking specifically of earthly authorities in that portion. Their are all kinds of rulers and authorities. the idea that the word authority or ruler speaks always of an earthly everywhere because it did in one place doesnt follow automatically logically or exegetically.
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Col 1
here in Colossians I see that thrones and dominions and principalities can be visible or invisible. it doesnt suit to pick and choose the verses- any more than it would if I was saying they are ONLY spiritual principalities, which i am not- as I said before, i believe they are enmeshed- in the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience. They are earthly, soulical, demonic…all(james 3)
From my point of view, which is not being presented without exegetical context- it is not limited to an earthly view in Eph 6;12 or Col 1:16 unless you ignore a whole lot of context(my opinion). “Cosmic powers and spirituals of evil in the heavenly realms” are, in my opinion, just as likely to be such as the demonic prince of Persia in Daniel- who is I might add overcome by two heavenly principalities in Gabriel and Michael. Another example the three unclean spirits that come from the mouth of the false prophet to draw the nations to Har Meggido in Rev 16. Another example, that Jesus said the aionian fire that was “prepared for ‘diabolo’ and his 'angelos”.
I have no problem with any other view, as long as it is not represented as the only clear exegetical view. .
kosmokratos- cosmic powers, is not speaking to me of earthly principalities- certainly not in any clear or absolute way, and especially with Col 1;16 for context. Also,if you notice, I did not use hosts or forces in my rendering of Eph 6:12 where I inserted the greek words next to rulers, authorities, etc. I did use it in quotations further down, quoting the scripture from memory, but pnemakita “spirituals of evil in the heavenly realms” still lends context- along with the whole of scripture, to the view that there are spiritual principalities. The god of this world age that has blinded the eyes of the unbelieving is connected to"the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience".
Also, Jesus and Paul both cast demons out of people and spoke of demonic bondage and Jesus had conversations with spiritual entities. Jesus sent out the 12 with power to cast out demons and heal the sick.
When the Pharisees accused Him of casting out devils by the devil, He said, “if I cast out demons by the finger of God then the kingdom of God has come among you.”
Davo, good points. I don’t believe the Bible is trying to explain what is going on in the heavenly realms. How does anyone know? To me, if demon entities were able to possess people, we’d all be in big trouble. The Bible is about God, man and life on earth. When we take it too literally, we end up with all sorts of strange ideas.
Thanks LLC.
Highly probable IMO.
To assume that “invisible” carries negative connotations and that specifically in terms of devils and demons or the like is to assume too much. The term <ἀόρατος> ahoratos is invariably linked with God Himself, and this above simply His instigating and or designating said “authorities” beyond what was readily obvious, no more no less. IOW… to assume “invisible” mean ‘otherworldly’ is simple that, an assumption, IMO.
“One characteristic of Jewish demonology was the amazing multitude of the demons. According to all accounts every man has thousands of them at his side. The air is full of them, and, since they were the causes of various diseases, it was well that men should keep some guard on their mouths lest, swallowing a demon, they might be afflicted with some deadly disease.” (my emphasis)
-catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=3753
Just looking at various sources, this one caught my eye.
Here is a short part of a very interesting study:
"But at the concept level, we might have something different. Paul uses the term ‘air’ two times, once describing an evil agent and once about us meeting the Lord ‘in the air’.
The first one is the most interesting one (Eph 2). Here’s the literal construction:
“And you were dead in/by the trespasses and the sins of you all, in which sins you all once formerly walked, according to the age (aeon) of this world (kosmos), according to the ruler (archon, accusative singular) of the authority (exousia, genitive singular) of the air (aer), of the spirit (pneuma, genitive singular) which now is at work in the sons of disobedience, among whom we also all lived, once, in the desire of the flesh (sarx) to do the will of the flesh and the mind (dianoia)…”
Although this might look promising at first, it is all wrong from a Platonic and MP perspective, and basically just looks ‘street folk Jewish’ (or actually, given the common Graeco-Roman demonology, ‘street folk Mediterranean’ would also be accurate):
“Most Jewish people believed that Satan or the chief of the heavenly angels of the nations ran the whole world except for Israel. “Ruler with authority over the realm of the air” was a natural title for his dominion; it was commonly believed that evil spirits dominated the lowest realm of the heavens (i.e., the atmospheric realm), far below the realm of God’s highest angels and his throne. “Air” was the usual term for the atmospheric heaven.” [BBC]
“Here the realm of the ruler’s authority is said to be the air. Elsewhere in Ephesians, hostile powers inhabit the heavenly realms (cf 3:10; 6:12). This notion has its background in OT and Jewish thought where angels and spirit powers were often represented as in heaven (e.g., Job 1:6; Dan 10:13, 21; 2 Macc 5:2; 1 Enoch 61.10; 90.21, 24); it was also developed in Philo (cf. De Spec. Leg. 1.66; De Plant. 14; De Gig. 6, 7). What is the relationship of “the air” to “the heavenly realms”? It may be that the writer is using terminology from different cosmological schemes, but it is fairly certain that he intends the two terms to indicate the same realm inhabited by malevolent agencies. If there is any distinct connotation, it could be that the “air” indicates the lower reaches of that realm and therefore emphasizes the proximity of this evil power and his influence over the world. In later Judaism the air is in fact thought of as the region under the firmament as in 2 Enoch 29.4,5, “And I threw him out from the height with his angels, and he was flying in the air continuously above the abyss.” (Cf. also T. Benj. 3.4; Targum of Job 5.7; and Asc. Isa. 7.9; 10.29; 11.23 where the firmament is called the air and the ruler of this world and his angels are said to live in it.” [WBC, in loc]"
Thanks Dave, very interesting.
qaz, No I don’t believe in demons as evil spirit beings floating around in the air. As for the verse that you mentioned about Jesus casting demons into the pigs, I don’t take this literally. What purpose would it serve to cast the demons into the pigs? The pigs then run over the cliff and die, but does this kill the demons as well or do the demons just float out of the pigs and go possess someone else? You just end up with a bunch of dead pigs for no reason. To me, what Jesus was saying was something to the effect of “feeding someone to the wolves”. One must keep in mind that when we read the Bible, we are reading a lot of literature.
I would make a distinction here. If you mean we are reading ‘just’ literature - i.e., fiction - I would disagree.
But if by ‘literature’ you mean a planned, intelligently organized and perhaps artful presentation of the reports of eyewitnesses, I’m on board! 
Dave, I believe the Bible is composed of many different types of literary works. Yes, I agree these works are artful expressions of truths we find in life. As Ecclesiastes 12 :9-10 says " And moreover, because the Preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yes, he pondered and sought out and set in order many proverbs. The Preacher sought to find acceptable words; and what was written was upright - words of truth." When one reads a piece of poetry for example, every word does not have to be literally true to be true. We get the meaning without having to scrutinize it. Why do we do this to the Bible?
Qaz,
I didnt say “invisible carries negative connotations”. I simply said that there are rulers(arche) and domains(exousias) both spiritual and earthly. I gave the example from Daniel of the demon prince of Persia and Gabriel and Michael as examples. So I am saying there are invisible principalities both positive andnegative. There is spiritual world in which God, who is a spirit, and angels and watchers and Satan and demons, etc, etc operate- as spirits.
That world intersects this world through the agency of man, both good and evil, as in Adam, the serpent and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Such as James 3 “eartly soulical and demonic or " angels ascending and descending on the son of man” . To insist that Paul did not speak of spiritual rulers and domains because in some other place he spoke of the earthly ones, is not logic, it is an interpretation and an assertion based on an opinion about the nature of the scriptures that I disagree with, as would many and thats ok too. Disagreement brings discussion, discussion brings enlightenment- sometimes 
The idea that the many references I am speaking of are just literary devices- well that’s a big disconnect to me. Why would anyone want to argue, for instance, the fulfilled view or any other view from a book of literature. What is the point. Who gets to decide what is literary devices and what is an authority. If there is no authority why discuss it and certainly why debate anything?
I dont mind discussing things but the assertion that Paul “definitely only had earthly principalities in mind when he spoke of these things” is just an opinion that can only be supported by the devaluation of a lot of scripture into literature, and I get that- I just think it is in error, and it is a weak argument when viewed along with all the context of scripture on the subject. When it is posited that “not against flesh and blood” refers to the inhumanity of the authorities rather than the nature of the adversaries, I just think that is a contextually weak attempt to deny facts in evidence that do not support ones view.
But if you notice, I am not just insisting my point is true. I am approaching this by presenting my interpretation of the scriptural evidence. If someone sees the nature of scriptures themselves that vastly differently from me- it is inevitable that we will come to different conclusions, and kind of marginalizes the ground of discussion and the point we are discussing, anyway.
The difficulty I see with your restrictive “logic” is that when YOU read “spiritual” YOU read “otherworldly” and all I’m pointing out is that THAT isn’t necessarily the case. Israel’s “spiritual rulers” were the Pharisaic priesthood and in particular the High Priest… in Jesus and Paul’s day these guys were corrupt sons of disobedience sons of perdition sons of gehenna etc, etc, etc… all very THIS-worldly.
Genesis 6:5 says this “Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
Psalm 10: 3-4 “For the wicked boasts of his heart’s desire; He blesses the greedy and renounces the Lord. The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.”
Proverbs 6:18 “A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil.”
Matthew 12:35 “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.”
Matthew 15:19 “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.”
Mark 7: 21-23 “For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”
Eaglesway, these verses are provable facts. All we need to do is look at the world around us.To say that evilness comes from some otherworldly demonic spiritual being is not a fact but a theory. To point at some verses in the Bible still does not make it a fact.
qaz, To me, wisdom is basically common sense. When people read the Bible, common sense seems to fly out the window. No, donkeys do not talk, nor have they ever talked. Yes, if you mess with a poisonous snake and it bites you, you will die. And no, sacrifice does not mean placing an animal,a person, or anything for that matter, upon an altar and killing it. As I said before, one cannot take the Bible too literally.
I have repeatedly said my logic is my own and all logic is based on the pre-suppositions of each view. I also said at least twice, “earthly, soulical, demonic, all three” quoting James 3. So I don’t read “spiritual” only as “other-wordly” and I was pretty clear about that- stating that earthly and spiritual principalities are “enmeshed”- my exact words. So now I am wondering if I am carrying on a discussion with someone who is not even reading what I am saying
I think you are the only one who has said Paul “definitely” had one view in mind. I am just presenting the scriptures and how I read them. Readers can draw their own conclusions.
On the other hand,if you read “spiritual” and determine there are definitely no spiritual rulers or principalities, I think that may be a little restrictive.
Eagle… instead of saying “I think…” why not just do a F3 word search of this blog and you’ll find it was YOU alone using “definitely” – your exact words.
But still you bifurcate the term (which as per your position is fine)… I’m just noting that there are other valid explanations to understanding “spiritual” that don’t require an “otherworldly” reading, as opposed to your direct presuppositional reflection saying such.
Yes I agree, there are other valid explanations. We all believe what we believe is valid, so yes, I think my view is also valid.
However, my view is not “presuppositional”. I have presented many verses for context. My view as I said before is that archas(rulers) and exousias(authorites) can refer to earthly and spiritual domains. In Eph in paricular however- as I read it,
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers(archas), against the powers(exousias), against the world forces(kosmokratos) of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness **in the heavenly places.
**
So in the context of the sentence, as well as the context of the epistle, in my view the archas and exousias Paul is speaking of are not flesh and blood, but rather they are** cosmic powers** and spirituals of evil in the heavenly realms…
In my view these are not governors and leaders who have flesh and blood and rule upon the earth among men, altho they work in and through them. To me this cannot really be easily portrayed as presuppositional or unreasonable. It is an interpretation with support from the context of scripture. That is not to say “it is the only correct view”, but imo it is a very reasonable consideration.
John 6:7 When Jesus called Peter the Rock, He spoke metaphorically. When he spoke to the 12 of Judas “and one of you is a devil”, in my view it is no different than saying to someone “You are a lion”. As the lion is representative of a courageous man, a devil is a fitting metaphor for the traitorous, conspiratorial, thieving, two faced Judas. Judas was behaving like a devil, and like the devil- father of lies, author of confusion, seducer and deceiver, etc. The fact that Jesus called Judas a devil in a metaphor doesnt mean there are no devils.
The 12, including Judas, knew the reality of demons, as they were regularly dealing with them, and watching the Lord deal with them.
The fact that Jesus called Judas a devil is witnessed by the same scripture that bears witness to Legion- a hive of spirits that possessed a madman who was whole and in his right mind after they were cast out into the pigs who promptly committed hogicide. John 6:7 is not a proof text against the existence of disembodied spirits which are represented in narrative all over the scriptures…
The reason Paul became so unpopular in Ephesians was because he cast a spirit of divination out of the prophetess of the temple of Diana. I gather she could not prophesy(see unknown things to tell people and impress them) anymore. The narrative says she had brought great riches to the temple by her prophesying…
The Holy Spirit works through us. The spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience is sometimes accompanied by demons.
I see what Paul did in Ephesus as an example of the the Lordship of Messiah overthrowing the kosmakratos and pneumatika tos ponerias in Ephesus, even as He had done, through Paul in Salamis(acts 13).
But Elymas the magician (for so his name is translated) was opposing them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze on him, 10and said, “You who are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease to make crooked the straight ways of the Lord? 11“Now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you will be blind and not see the sun for a time.” And immediately a mist and a darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking those who would lead him by the hand. 12Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.
From my point of view Paul was dealing with a man, but the man was dealing with the devil, enslaving the masses through powers, “earthly, psychological, demonic”. He was seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith because it would hinder his influence and wealth gathering, and I believe he used natural and psychological means to bamboozle people. I believe he probably had assistance “cosmic powers of this darkness and spirituals of evil in the heavenly realms” as well.
Presuppositions exist in everyone, including me. That is why we have the scriptures. You and I just read them very differently regarding this topic, obviously.
It will all come out in the wash
Not really so confusing if we regard the gospels and Acts as historical and not mere myth and hyperbole. If we “wrestle” against such, we do so as those before us, as it also says, “our weapons are not carnal/natural”. The word, the truth, prayer, praise, forgiveness, lovng our enemies, the gospel…
Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18 And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
Some of our struggles are natural. Some of them are personal(struggling against our own disposition to the flesh and the carnal mind), some of are spiritual, and can involve conflict with spirits working in people or even directly. That doesnt mean there are demons around every corner or that anyone should focus on that, as Jesus said, “Marvel not that demons are subject to you. Marvel rather that your names are written in the book of life.”
One of the beauties of life in Christ and Christ in us is freedom from demonic oppression.
I have been in places where demonic activity was very real and direct. But only a few times in my many years in Christ. That is not weight in the balance for discussion sake, but it is my testimony. Certified true by me 