The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Have our Christian traditions "exorcised" their Pagan roots?

I have seen the LOTR movies. I haven’t read the books which means to my daughters I am not a real fan. I’m a Narf. I do hear much wisdom from them on everything Tolkien. Are you on the one ring forum? If so, you may have run into them over there.

Both my husband and I started our intentional steps toward God by reading the Bible, neither of us had any religious christian training prior to that. Our tactic, if you will, was to read, understand and do the Bible. By the time we got through the Bible, to the gospels, we knew there was a “Savior”, we knew we needed Him for anything good to happen in our lives and, we knew Christ’s work on the cross was the only way to salvation. The first part of the Bible was also a joy to me because I was learning an awesome moral standard. We wanted to meet together with other believers so, at church we learned that we should keep the church laws but, that God’s laws were void. Many people there still basically kept most of commandments too (I guess, just in case), except the Sabbath. Through the years we kept the 9 commandments. One day our daughters asked us why we didn’t keep the Sabbath and we didn’t have an answer. Now, these girls learned to read using the Bible, they know it . . . well. We started to rethink what we learned in church. We had already gotten into looking up Hebrew words so, we used all our resources (basic and pretty limited) and the result was awesome! That is when we started keeping the Sabbath on the 7th day.
Our attempts at christmas and easter were always pretty lame after we started reading the Bible, for seemingly no reason. After studying a bit more on the Sabbath, we realized there were other “days” or “festivals” that Yehovah wanted His people to gather on and there were specific things that they did on those days. I see a lot of types and foreshadowing and it wasn’t too hard to start to understand what was going on. That’s when we began to look at the 7 main seasons of gathering (written in Leviticus 23). Verse 2-4 says, “And Yehovah speaketh unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the sons of Israel, and thou hast said unto them, Appointed seasons of Yehovah, which ye proclaim, holy convocations, are these: they are My appointed seasons: six days is work done, and in the seventh day is a sabbath of rest, a holy convocation; ye do no work; it is a sabbath to Yehovah in all your dwellings.These are appointed seasons of Yehovah, holy convocations, which ye proclaim in their appointed seasons:
(Lev 23:1-4)

In Lev 23:2, Yehovah calls these days Moedim, which is plural for moed (see definition below)
מועדה / מעד / מועד - mô‛êd / mô‛êd / mô‛âdâh
BDB Definition:

  1. appointed place, appointed time, meeting
    1a) appointed time
    1a1) appointed time (general)
    1a2) sacred season, set feast, appointed season
    1b) appointed meeting
    1c) appointed place
    1d) appointed sign or signal
    1e) tent of meeting
    Most of these days are also Chag (which is to observe a holy day of dancing and feasting)

These are the “appointed seasons/days/times” we meet with Yehovah:
In the spring -
Pesach (Passover) at twilight on the 14th day of the 1st month of the year.
The appointed season of Unleavened bread – UB is an eight day celebration which begins at twilight on the 15th day of the 1st month.
The 7th day Sabbath is observed as part of the season.
First Fruits – is the offering made early morning after the 7th day Sabbath begins. This is also the day we start counting 7 weekly Sabbaths + 1 day (50 days) to Shavout or Pentecost.
The moed of Unleavend Bread concludes on the 8th day.

50 Days later – Shavout or Pentecost

In the fall of the year (coming up in about a month)-
In the 7th month, 1st day – Yom Teruah – The day of blowing (trumpets)
7th month, 10th day – Yom Kippur – The day of atonement.
7th month, 15th day – Sukkot – Tabernacles
7th month, 22nd day – The Last Great Day (Conclusion of appointed season)

If a 7th day Sabbath falls within the moedim, it is a high holy day.

Every 7th day is a Sabbath (appointed day).
Every new moon is and appointed day.
Every 7th year is the Sabbath of the land.
Jubilee is (every 50th year), which is a yearly pattern of Shavout (Pentecost).

The 3 times a year when everyone met in Jerusalem was when people brought their tithe. Everyone celebrated and feasted. All the widows, orphans and poor were provided for throughout the year by this continual giving and celebration.

It seems overwhelming at first. At one point I began to realize that Yehovah wants us to be continually dancing and celebrating with Him (on the mountain). Keeping these days means to be in constant relationship with Him. We are either celebrating, thinking about our last celebration or planning our next celebration. It’s like His message to us is, life is a holiday, let’s dance, sing and feast together!

I will post again about what we do on these days. There are things Yehovah wants us to understand about His days but, how we observe them is pretty open. On the Sabbath we just “don’t go our own way”. We rest. We don’t think about all the stuff we are forced to think about during the week and we don’t do anything that feels like work. Sometimes we read the Bible together as a family all day, sometimes we listen to the Bible on CD and paint or draw, sit outside and sometimes we actually just sleep all day long. I make food ahead of time, no one does dishes, etc. Just rest. Rest may be different to different people but, everyone knows what they need to be fully rested. It makes the rest of the week go so much easier. We all have more joy.
I’ll post on the other days soon. Maybe someone else that keeps these days could share what they do to. Also, I’m no expert or anything. We are just kind of simple people who desire great relationship with our God and other people. I would appreciate learning more from others.

The Origins of Pagan idolatry by Faber is free online, and quite enlightening to the history of paganism.

You read my mind :blush:

I’m beginning to see and appreciate what you’re saying :sunglasses: It’s very counter-cultural, as life often feels fast-paced, one stress after another, endlessly trying to stay afloat. It would need to be something the whole family embraced, otherwise I’m not sure it would work.

I guess I come down on the “side” of this issue regarding what Paul said about all things being lawful for us, but not all are profitable. My personal view is that celebrating pagan holidays with a Christian face on them is not profitable to our spiritual life, and potentially detrimental.

Just my .02

It really is counter-culture, Alex. :smiley: I think that is what makes God so attractive to those who don’t have a relationship with Him. They are searching for peace, for meaning in this chaotic life. As far as I see in Scripture, nothing has changed for His people. He still wants us to be without stress/worry and in constant relationship with Him.
My experience is that most of my family does not embrace this. I left the dead and embraced God. They see me with joy and rejoicing before Him, they are softer to it now than at first because they long for joy. My husband, children and I have always just allowed God to do whatever He has in mind for us so, that was a pretty easy transition. But, even if they wouldn’t do it, I would cook for them and set up these days for them to enjoy. I would pray and make these days as joyful as possible for my family. God would help me and He will help anyone who seeks Him. BTW, the appointed days of Sukkot are starting this week!! I could give a short explanation on these days if anyone is interested. Sounds like some others keep these appointed days too. Maybe we could share?!

I’m with you on that. Jesus keeps them, Paul keeps them, I’m keeping them. For me, it *was *leaving paganism and following the Messiah. I think I view it differently because I wasn’t raised in the “church”. I look at it like this, many have and will give their very lives to follow Him, I’m just giving up a couple of pagan holidays. One thing is sure, we will all do and be as He. All will be made right. My hope is that, those who keep these appointments with our Creator will have joy and find a deeper relationship with Him! (Well, actually, I hope that for everyone, appointed days or not. :slight_smile: ) There is peace though, in understanding what and when Yehovah is doing. May Yehovah :smiley: upon you!

Kelly that would be awesome! Please do tell, I find all that you have written to be facinating. I keep feeling like God is starting a revival in his Ekklesia (an actual biblical term :wink: ), and that this revival will become a revolution and this revolution a reformation. The truths which you speak should be heard, its not legalism, it seems like utter joy to be honest.

As Christians we are so quick to lay claim to the freedom we have in Christ, this is true to an extent, but God spoke about these things in his Scriptures for a reason! To ignore them is ignorant and sadly misguided. We fear to be under bondage to the Ministry of Death, yet what you speak of sounds like the law of freedom mentioned by James,

"Those who look intently into the perfect law of freedom, and continue in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do. "(1:25)

what day is the feast of trumpets? I don’t keep the feasts, but I am very interested in them

good use of proper terminology awakening :smiley: and I do agree that it is beginning, the awakening, its time for us to finally break the bondage of Babylon

Yom Teruah begins when the new moon is sighted her next cycle. Around September 30th. This is the one appointed time that “no one knows the day or hour” because it depends solely on the sighting of the new moon.

Indeed, it is good terminology! I have a growing concern though. Now we enjoy fellowship as the body. We each come with our song to share. My concern is that we will “organize” into a religious entity. Throughout history, that has been the quickest way to end the movement of God. Maybe we could start a new thread about that, if it hasn’t already been done.

if its the dawning of the 7th day (I believe it is) then their will be no end to this movement, the only organization will be the oneness of the body, with the Christ as the head

That sounds good to me. :smiley: Are you going to share more of your thoughts on the 7th day? I would love to hear them.

You have spoken my very heart!
The Torah is truly the perfect law of freedom. I do not trust in my own righteousness, I am freed from my sins to walk in Torah (Yehovah’s instructions, truth). Freed from sin and now, a slave of righteousness. Truly, Torah is the image of Yehovah, perfection, beauty and love. Psalm 119 explores the joy of knowing and walking in Torah.
Is the moon new, Aletheia? No, the moon is the same moon every cycle, it is renewed. Is the covenant with God new? No, it is the same every cycle (age), it is renewed. There is nothing new under the sun. He always wanted our hearts. His Torah is written on our hearts and minds because, He is written on our hearts and minds. The morning star is rising! He is our joy and we walk in Him. He is indeed awakening in you and those of us who glory in Him. :smiley:

Hello again. Sorry that I have taken so long in getting these posted.

YOM TERUAH
(This year, approximately Sept.30th / at the appearance of the next new moon. It is the 1st day of the 7th month).
The 7th month is a Sabbath month.

Yom Teruah = The day or memorial of blowing the trumpets [or shofars]. It is a high holy day. And is then followed by the “Ten days of awe”.

It is to be a “holy convocation” (English translation). The word translated “convocation” is the Hebrew word mikra, which means, rehearsal. These appointments with Yehovah are “holy rehearsals”. It is also the word for Bible, carrying with it the idea of reading and understanding what is read. So, the idea of these appointments that Yehovah has made with us is to read and understand what is written and to rehearse what is written. We see this same language as Paul tells us, “… you are my epistles, having been written in our hearts, known and read by all men, . . .”. Also, the Torah is written on our hearts, instead of stone and we are read by others.
Yehovah = mikra
Bible = mikra
Appointments with Yehovah = mikra
We are mikra.

Yom Teruah begins the “fall feasts”. It is the end of the harvest.

Purpose for Yom Teruah;
To call all Israel to attention/ A wake up blast and reminder of the nearing of Yom Kippur.
To prepare for the coming, Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement).
It is time to teshuvah (repent and turn back to Yehovah).
Begins the “10 days of Awe”, a time of heart searching introspection and evaluation of individual conduct over the preceding year. It is preparation for repentance and renewal on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement).
Signals the end of the agricultural harvest season.
Heralds the beginning of the next great time of festivity in the nation.
Is six months after the Pesach (Passover) season.
Is the signal to begin repentance and renewal.
This day we remember Moses bringing down the commandments of Yehovah from Mount Sinai.
The prophet like Moses coming, who we must listen to (Yeshua Messiah) who was the embodiment of Torah.
This is also the day of announcements;
The announcement day of the birth of the righteous King, the Lion of the tribe of Judah.
The confirmation of the covenant spoken of by Daniel
The announcement of the new moon.
It is the sound of awakening and preparation.
Preparation for repentance, judgment (the opening of the books) and renewal
The Bride preparing for her groom’s return for their wedding.
The wedding supper.
The announcement of the resurrection.
Preparation and announcement of a coming new order.
The utter defeat of the enemy.
The fulfilling of the plan written in the stars.
This is the day that the two witness’ of Revelation will be raised from the dead.

Because it takes place at a day and hour no one knows (exactly at the sighting of the new moon), we must prepare in advance for Yom Teruah. As soon as the first sliver of the new moon is sighted, if you have not prepared, it is too late, the Sabbath has started and no other transactions can be made.
This day we rehearse and remember the day at Mount Sinai when Moses brought the commandments of Yehovah down from the mountain. God told Moses to have the people sanctify themselves for 2 days and, on the 3rd day, to bring them up the mountain to Him. (Obviously, pointing to the resurrection on the 3rd day for the people of God.) On the 3rd day the trumpets sounded, loud, then louder. The people put their clean garments on and set off to meet with Yehovah. Israel followed Moses to the base of the mountain. The mountain top was covered in smoke and flashes of lightening, the trumpets grew even louder. They were afraid. When the trumpets stopped, the people said, you talk to Yehovah and tell us what He says, Moses.
Moses told the people, Do not fear; for God has come to test you, that His fear may be before you, “SO THAT YOU MAY NOT SIN.” (Fear does have to do with the “law”, specifically, It has to do with if you are in sin. The Torah is perfect. It is fear of a righteous, holy God we have, if we are in sin and/or without a covering (Savior). Does His love save us anyway, yes. Are there consequences? Yes. Yehovah told us to never forget this day and when to remember it, the 1st day of the 7th month, every year.
We are now in the 2nd day, as Israel was, being sanctified. At the final fulfillment of Yom Teruah (the 3rd day), at the end of this age, we will be raised up.

There was no requirement to be in Jerusalem on Yom Teruah.

Yeshua was explaining and interpreting Yom Teruah in John 6, saying He was the bread that came down from heaven, and that He will lose nothing but, will raise it up at the last day (vs39). Also that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have aionian life; and that He will raise them up at the last day (v40) – Looks like good UR/EU verses to me. Yeshua is teaching/interpreting Yom Teruah, that He is the fulfillment of the mikra.

All the Scriptures,on paper and on our hearts and minds, as well as, the plan of Yehovah in the stars are wrapped around the Appointments of Yehovah with His people. It is understanding what is written there and rehearsing it, Him, which is mikra.

This is some of what I understand of this day. If anyone else has revelation of these days, please share! I will be writing on the next Appointed Day of Yehovah, Yom Kippur shortly. If you have questions, please ask. I will do my best to clarify.

It’s interesting that during the time of the year when Christians get together to celebrate “Christ’s Resurrection” the holiday is named after a pagan goddess, Easter.

Exodus 23:13:
“Be careful to do everything I have said to you. Do not invoke the names of other gods; do not let them be heard on your lips.”

Re-naming it “Resurrection day” doesn’t change anything either. That’s like naming a “dining room” a “chow area” and expecting to go into a different place. :confused:

Shalom! Happy Yom Teruah, everyone!

Thankyou for drawing that to our attention. Having just readup on it, I am challenged.

We have a problem in Queensland Australia where I live. Our problem is that the vagaries of history have so arranged things that all our State approved holidays occur between Christmas and June each year. Thus we are bereft for six months! Sad but true! What to do? Our State legislature is currently looking at moving the Queen’s birthday which always occurs on the second Monday in June to a later date, hopefully also a Monday. Apparently the Queen of England, who is also Queen of Australia among other far flung places, does not mind because she secretly knows that her birthday does not actually occur on the second Monday in June anyway. Go figure? Such are the problems with special days.
The learned apostle Paul had a few words to say about special days and other bits of lore. His words have to be understood in context. In Romans Pauls advice is that we need to take care not to offend others by our freedom. His basic tenet is that no matter what faith is the key as “everything that does not come from faith is sin.” You can check it all out in Romans 14.
Moving on to Galatian’s we find a very different approach from Paul. Again watch the context. He says of them(Gal 4; 10 & 11): “You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.” Why the difference? What is Paul’s problem with these Galatian folk? Simply it is that having in faith accepted the new covenant of redemption in Christ they are now returning to the old covenant of Law – part of which involved the special days etc. Keeping the law is not a matter of faith it is a matter of observance. Deuteronomy 27; 26 says: Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out. This means the whole law not just the bits we like or go along with or happen to find convenient. The only problem is that no one can keep the law and be justified by it. No wonder Paul starts Romans 8 after spending the 7 previous chapters dealing with the whole sorry mess of failure to keep the law both morally and legally by proclaiming: “Therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.” Hallelujah!
It seems to me after 50 years a Christian that the past 2000 years have proven that mixing law and grace makes for a strange cake.

Hello Chris,
Thanks for the information. Very kind of you to be concerned for me, I appreciate that. I guess my presuppositions come from my pagan background. I wanted to move away from worshiping ancient deities/demons on the pagan holy day and just didn’t know what to do so, I reverted back to the days that Yehovah called holy to Him and just went with that. I’m not sure what to tell you about the queen. Hope that works out for you. I’m sorry I don’t have any wisdom to offer in such a difficult dilemma. Romans 14 huh. Not sure how I missed that. If I keep these other holy days from the Bible in faith is it still sin? HHmmm . . .Galatians. Weren’t they gentiles? Yeah, I think they were. So, they wouldn’t have been keeping the holy days in the Torah anyway, right? Is it possible Paul was talking about their pagan holy days? I’m not sure I’ll have to go back and check. I’m really not concerned with Deut 27 at all because I am saved by Messiah’s work on the cross. I only keep Torah the best I can because it is a great standard to live by. I haven’t found a better standard. And, as a pagan looking for a God to deliver me, I found christians who said they didn’t have to do anything right or good because they were free from the law repugnant and hypocritical. After God brought me to Him I thought it was a good idea to show others still in the world that being a believer meant I didn’t rip them off or hold them to my own standard of righteousness and, tell them my God condones it . . for me . . . not for them though. Will my works in the law save me? No, I understand that. Actually, keeping the law (without worrying about my own salvation, or being justified by it) is a joy to me. Thank you for your declaration! You are absolutely right, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus! I heartily agree with you, Hallelujah! Do you think there is condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus that would like to do what is right according to God? One thing I would like to share with you. Every time Jesus was teaching at the temple or making His way to Jerusalem, He was on His way to one of these Holy Day. Might want to check it out.
Thank you for your concern for my soul. It really does mean a lot to me. I appreciate your willingness to stand in your convictions.
May you have peace and joy in Him!

Kelly, It seems to me that finding Joy in the “law of the Lord” is just about the most fantastic way to approach it. “Good on ya” as we say in this neck of the woods. Just to clarify; it is most likley that the Galatans Paul had a problem with were Jewish diaspora together with some local Gentiles who were all believers who had got muddled over the whole busieness of the law of Moses and how it fitted in with thier new salvic faith in Jesus which Paul had originally brought to them. This whole issue was the subject of lively debate and is a traceable topic through much of the NT letters paticularly of Paul and James. Blessings Chris

Hi there,
I’ve been following this discussion with some interest.

Kelly S said

Having come from a background where ‘Sabbath Keeping’ was done from sunset Fri to Sunset Saturday, as in the Jewish tradition, I found the comments by Kelly very interesting.

The problem with ‘Keeping’ anything, there always arises the issue of- am I keeping it well enough or exactly what is acceptable in order to ‘rest’ on the Sabbath? (Consider all the Pharisaic regulations in order to protect the Sabbath).
If this is going to be kept then isn’t it also necessary to also adhere to the penalties imposed for the breaking of the command (in Jesus time some of these were rules of men but stoning for gathering sticks on the Sabbath for example was part of the Law as written down by Moses as a direction from God).

The argument I grew up with is that as the seventh day Sabbath was part of the ‘10’ commandments it was important to keep this day as opposed to Sunday which after all was related to Sun worship and a construct of Constantine in order to fuse the Pagan with the Christian.
Whilst this may have been true, references made by some patristic writers indicate that Sunday was already being worshipped on by some/many Christians in celebration of the New birth in Christ and His Resurrection on the ‘8th day as it was sometimes referred to, long before Constantine. Perhaps this increased when it was more expedient to be seen as separate from the Jews or as the number of Gentile believers grew and eventually outnumbered the Jewish believers

It is interesting to note that the weekly Sabbath was also the first of the listed feasts in Lev 23
So are these feasts that were a part of the Jewish Law found in the ‘Book of the Law’ still binding?

Whilst Christians were associating and continuing to be a part of the Jewish system they were seen as just another off-shoot of the Jews; they were under the protection of the Romans because though Judea was under Roman rule, as you know, the Jews were allowed to conduct their own affairs and enjoyed a measure of freedom.

There was perhaps some benefit in carrying on with the Jewish system not to mention that it was very much tied in with their family life and culture.
There was also some benefit for Gentile Christians to become ‘Jewish’ for this reason- rather than being viewed by the Romans as a distinct sect who then wouldn’t benefit from the Jewish privileges and come under greater scrutiny by the Romans.

Prior to persecution from Rome, of course, it was the traditional Jews who were giving the Christians a hard time.
There was also pressure from the Jewish Christian community for the Gentile Christians to be circumcised and be apart of the Jewish customs that many of them continued with, in spite of there new beliefs. To avoid distinctions between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians in their habits would avoid being conspicuously different from the Jewish nation as a whole and avoid the gaze of the Roman authorities.
However Paul strongly argues against Gentile Christians taking on Jewish customs as to do so would imply a dependence upon the whole law which would deny the Grace of Christ. Of course here the issue is circumcision but that was part of the Law.

**Gal 5:3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
Gal 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Gal 6:12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.
Gal 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Gal 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.**

Peter says their laws were a thing too hard even for the Jews to bear:

**Act 15:4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
Act 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.”
Act 15:6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
Act 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
Act 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
Act 15:9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
Act 15:11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” **

Kelly said:

ChrisB replied:

.

I agree in the Galatians passage quoted, (Gal 4; 10 & 11): “You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.” Paul may have been eluding to the Gentile Christian’s return to pagan practices or perhaps rather to them taking on Jewish practices and seeing them simply as replacements of there former practices rather than the Christian view that these things were part of a former system pointing and being fulfilled in Christ and therefore unnecessary for the Christian who was under a New Covenant.
(Note that in the many passages in both OT & NT where this type of sequence and terminology ie the days months years sequence refer to the Jewish weekly Sabbaths, new moon festivals and the yearly feasts)

Reading the entire passage though there is I think no doubt that the whole Law given at Sinai is under discussion.
**
Gal 4:9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
Gal 4:10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
Gal 4:12 I plead with you, brothers, become like me, for I became like you. You have done me no wrong.
Gal 4:13 As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you.
Gal 4:14 Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.
Gal 4:15 What has happened to all your joy? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.
Gal 4:16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
Gal 4:17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may be zealous for them.
Gal 4:18 It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always and not just when I am with you.
Gal 4:19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,
Gal 4:20 how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you!
Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?
Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
Gal 4:23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
Gal 4:24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.
Gal 4:25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Gal 4:27 For it is written: “Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.”
Gal 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
Gal 4:29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.
Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”
Gal 4:31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.**

The Jewish system of worship and festivals etc also very much revolved around the Temple which was a Type or symbol of Christ and of course was not in existence after 70AD. Hebrews, I think, clearly indicates this system was phased out with the Priesthood of Christ.

In Colossians Paul is recorded as saying:
**Col 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
Col 2:10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.
Col 2:11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
Col 2:14 having cancelled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. **

Paul of course also says in his letter to Romans that the fact that we are no longer under law but under Christ doesn’t mean carte blanche to be lawless-just that we are under the system of Grace.
An illustration might be travelling to England where pound sterling is the currency- it doesn’t mean the Aussie dollar had no value, but not in England.
A poor analogy perhaps but under Christ we are no longer subject to the regulations that were once obligatory to the Jews (but never the Gentiles).
With regards the festivals feast days, Sabbaths etc I think Paul is clear that they were done away with in that they were a shadow of greater things- the reality of which is Christ.

I think there is much to be gained from studying and understanding the significance of the feasts from our Christ centred perspective but as for ‘keeping’ them I’m not so sure.

For me, as far as Christmas Easter etc go, whilst they were seen by my church as ‘Christian’ they were never a church celebration as such in my Christian tradition so not really an issue in that regard.

I’ve tended rightly or wrongly to view that it is at least a time of year when the non-Christian community might at least be exposed to something that brings at least a semblance of something Christian which otherwise many would never come in contact with (in spite of the doubtful origins and the current commercialism).

With regards celebrating of Jewish festivals I see no problem if a believer wishes to, except that very quickly thing become formalised and a requirement- what one generation sees as joyful and a celebration the next very quickly sees an obligation. Grace is easily lost sight of, as we know from the history of the Christian Church. Why devote time to the ‘Types’ when we have the Reality.

With regards the seventh day Sabbath (or any other Sabbath) I’ve come to believe that it is a symbol of rest in Christ not a particular day but ‘Today’-.

Heb 4:4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.”
Heb 4:5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
Heb 4:6 It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience.
Heb 4:7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
Heb 4:10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.

Jesus of course was Jewish and upheld the Jewish traditions that were relevant until the time of the Crucifixion.

Thanks for your input Kelly and others
Just a few thoughts- but I remain open to persuasion!

Cheers
S