I really don’t know what all this fuss about technology is about. Or how we transitioned from alcohol to technology - in this forum thread. I got to go to the store, and get a new suit 
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Strawman much?
Chad, no worries, I actually did not think you did. You have a great heart. Appreciate your presence and contribution on this board. I mean that.
I do think that we need to be merciful toward people who struggle with addictions. There actually ARE people who helplessly struggle with these things. For the sake of keeping the thread on topic, I’ll posit alcohol addiction. I have a relative who struggled in relative silence for decades with alcoholism. He hated it, but his mental condition was such that he could get no victory. Even motivation was exceedingly difficult for him. This is, frankly, as much a physical problem (including the brain in my label of physical) as it is a moral one. Maybe many of our problems are. That doesn’t let us off struggling with them in the effort to achieve victory. My relative has finally enlisted the help of a doctor (who, thanks to Obamacare, he can ill afford, being a working man) and has been steadily improving. This is unspeakably poignant for him. He has hated himself for his addiction for so very long.
It’s been my experience that we find it difficult to understand the helplessness and self-condemnation of those who struggle with these things. We do not all have addictive personalities. It’s easy to say (as another loved one says), “I don’t understand these smokers. I just decided to quit one day; I laid them down; and I have never since smoked a cigarette or wanted to.” HE was not addicted to cigarettes. HE cannot understand the struggle of the true addictive personality. I can’t either, because that is not the cross I’ve been given to bear, but I’ve seen enough loved ones and friends honestly struggling and facing defeat over and over that I’m hesitant to judge them. It seems to me that tolerance and support and prayer for them may be a better way. Not that we never speak truth, but that when we do, we make sure that we’re speaking the truth in nothing other than genuine love.
I do think that we need to be merciful toward people who struggle with addictions. There actually ARE people who helplessly struggle with these things. For the sake of keeping the thread on topic, I’ll posit alcohol addiction. I have a relative who struggled in relative silence for decades with alcoholism. He hated it, but his mental condition was such that he could get no victory. Even motivation was exceedingly difficult for him. This is, frankly, as much a physical problem (including the brain in my label of physical) as it is a moral one. Maybe many of our problems are. That doesn’t let us off struggling with them in the effort to achieve victory. My relative has finally enlisted the help of a doctor (who, thanks to Obamacare, he can ill afford, being a working man) and has been steadily improving. This is unspeakably poignant for him. He has hated himself for his addiction for so very long.
It’s been my experience that we find it difficult to understand the helplessness and self-condemnation of those who struggle with these things. We do not all have addictive personalities. It’s easy to say (as another loved one says), “I don’t understand these smokers. I just decided to quit one day; I laid them down; and I have never since smoked a cigarette or wanted to.” HE was not addicted to cigarettes. HE cannot understand the struggle of the true addictive personality. I can’t either, because that is not the cross I’ve been given to bear, but I’ve seen enough loved ones and friends honestly struggling and facing defeat over and over that I’m hesitant to judge them. It seems to me that tolerance and support and prayer for them may be a better way. Not that we never speak truth, but that when we do, we make sure that we’re speaking the truth in nothing other than genuine love.
Spot on!
The addictions aspect is one that needs addressing. The scientific research tends to show a strong genetic disposition factor. I have to base this upon what is shared by Dora. She has her own counseling service and has dealt with many alcoholics and drug addicts, over the years. She has a PhD in biblical archaeology from Oxford and a master’s in counseling, at the University of Chicago. And her son is a professor at Havard and one of the world’s current experts in genetic modeling. So without reviewing the scientific literature itself, I will defer to their expertise, on the genetic disposition factor.
Having said that, I had a brother who spent a lifetime, as an alcoholic. He never made it to sobriety and is now deceased. But much had to deal with coping with a tragic childhood - which he couldn’t. But I came out of the same childhood. And unfortunately - we had to separate for a few years - due to his violent tendencies, under the influence. Because of his issue, I’m very familiar with the work of the Salvation Army, Alcoholics Anonymous and Al-Anon. They are all good organizations. Unfortunately, they couldn’t help him.
But I found a different way of coping. And I discovered the validity of:
homeopathic constitutional treatment
spiritual healing in Native American ceremonies
the healing power of the holy spirit
As far as alcohol goes, I can take it or leave it. But I do like a good whiskey, rum or wine - on occasion. And I will drink at social occasions - but not get drunk or intoxicated. And I have no ill will towards those who abstain - for whatever reason. Just as I have no ill will towards those who are vegetarian. In fact, I do enjoy a good vegetarian meal myself - on occasion. And if it were legal at the federal level and someone was smoking a joint - I might join them. And if any indigenous people were performing “authentic” Ayahuasca or peyote ceremonies (NOT any new age “Mumbo-Jumbo” version) - I might join them - if I were “officially” invited (they do have both a Christian/Indigenous and an indigenous version, of these ceremonies).
The key to life is to have a sense of humor. That’s why I like the Nerd and Holy Fools traditions. And I’ve learned to appreciate this humor, from those in the Yoga, Zen, Tibetan and Native American traditions. German philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche, said this: .
I like this Q and A from the video:
Just wanting to share a kinda on topic story.
The first discussion I remember having with our kids about Alcohol involved watching Dumbo (There is a scene where Dumbo, by accident, gets very drunk and hallucinates and really to be honest as my kids asked questions and I explained what was going on in the scene it was making alcohol look fun to my kids. It was a really awkward conversation {how is this in a DISNEY movie?!?!?!} and I was trying to assure them that getting drunk was not all fun psychedelic hallucinations and really it was a not good thing that Dumbo accidentally drank all that.) As a kid I don’t think I ever realized what that section of the cartoon was about.) Beyond that I think our children have been told in Sunday School by one of their teachers that alcohol is bad and they know mommy and daddy don’t keep it in the house. Personally I don’t think drinking is wrong we just don’t for multiple reasons and it isn’t a common topic of discussion in our home.
Recently I took my children on a winery tour with some family and when we got ready to go into the tasting room my oldest was very concerned they would make her taste alcohol. I assured her they wouldn’t and we had a good time learning about it, I sampled a few wines and they sampled a couple juices. I let them smell the wine which they thought smelled awful and I tried to clarify because of their expressed concerns, that drinking is not wrong, drinking too much is.
Fast forward and I heard them talking to each other one day about the juice they sampled there that they liked but they couldn’t remember what the place was called- one told the other, “you know that one place we went to where mommy was drinking all the alcohol!” I think MOST in our church probably share the same view as I do about drinking, but man I have to wonder how that conversation would have been taken had they said that in front of our church members!
Some YouTube commentary:
Here is new research your consideration:
“Drinkers urged to think about risks as alcohol-related deaths rocket: Think about your increased risk of cancer before reaching for a glass of wine, England’s chief medical officer has warned after a near-60% rise in the rate of drinking deaths over two decades.”
Blessings.
Come on, Hermano. The Guardian? Isn’t that the English equivalent of the US National Enquirer? See, for example, Is The Guardian a Tabloid?
So let’s explore “some of their statistics”:
In 2014, there were 8,697 alcohol-related deaths registered in the UK
Two-thirds of deaths in 2014 were men and statisticians noted that alcohol-related death rates were highest among 55- to 64-year-olds.
These statistics are telling me nothing. And I have many questions:
What are their drinking habits? Heavy drinkers?
Are these people medically classified as alcoholics?
How long have they been drinking (i.e. how many years)?
Were they taking any other medications, at the time of death?
What is the medical cause of death and is that classified statistically?
Etc.
And to “quote a couple of people”, even with proper academic credentials - expressing an opinion (without scientific research, to back it up) - tells me nothing.
And if I showed you statistics showing the number killed in auto accidents each year, should we conclude people should give up driving? And if we look at deaths from cholesterol, should we conclude people shouldn’t eat? Or they just need to eat certain foods, exercise more, etc. 
The fact is I cannot drink like other people. I’m powerless over alcohol. It takes control and leads to other things. I don’t have a problem with it like at communion. But I simply cannot drink normally in moderation. It starts a craving and mental obsession that takes control sooner or later. As they say in N.A., alcohol is a drug. And for people like me drugs lead to one of three things. Jails, institutions, or death…Oh My!! 
Hi, Michael. My brother - now diseased - had a lifetime battle with alcohol. My lifelong female, Greek Orthodox friend (who has a masters in social work, from the University of Chicago and a PhD in Biblical archaeological from Oxford), has handled many alcoholic cases - over the years. She says a big component is genetic predisposition. Since her son is a professor at Harvard and a world renown expert in genetic modeling, I have to side with her opinion.
Now there are two issues in this thread.
Should Christians be forbidden to drink alcohol? The largest church bodies side with the historical opinion (i.e. Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Anglicanism) , saying it is acceptable. And most Protestant denominations say it is OK in moderation. And neither the American Medical Association, the British Medical Association, or the World Health Organization - has taken an official stance against it.
The other issue is addiction or potential addiction. And this could apply to anything, like sex, over the counter medications, prescription drugs, food, gambling, video games, tobacco, etc. I advise anyone having issues with alcohol or other addictions, to seek help from clergy members, family physicians, counselors, agencies like Alcoholics Anonymous or the Salvation Army, etc.
Hey Randy,
I’ve struggled with drugs and alcohol my whole life as well and also believe in genetic predisposition and therefore believe like A.A. in total abstinence. This is also the view of my psychiatrist. Study’s show that when an alcoholic consumes alcohol his body metabolizes it differently. Really, it’s for the individual to decide whether he should drink in moderation or not. Not to force one view on everybody. I can only say that every time I drink I end up at the crack house. So, no moderation for me.
You’re right, St. Michael. Anyone who cannot control alcohol consumption, but is controlled BY alcohol, should abstain.
Personally, I have never had the desire to go overboard and get out of control. Even in my old age (78) I drink 2 ounces of rum in a can of coke zero, twice a week. I never vary the weekly quantity, and I see no evidence of being harmed by this practice.
That’s great Paidion. If I could do that I would drink at least every week. But can’t.
I would just add this. Diet Cokes (or the store brand equivalent), tastes much more palatable, with a lemon and lime slice 
Expert Says Wine Isn’t Nearly As Healthful As We Think: “There’s no safe level of drinking.” March 22, 2016.
Dr Tim Stockwell, director of the University of Victoria’s Centre for Addictions Research, said: “There is a general idea out there that alcohol is good for us, because that’s what you hear reported all the time, but there are many reasons to be skeptical.” The new study was published in the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs.
Come on , Hermano - quit quoting experts. For each “expert” you quote against, I can find an “expert” to quote for in moderation. For each study you quote against, I can find a study refuting the claim. Something like tobacco is a different story. But alcohol? I’m not seeing the scientific community worldwide rise up - either for or against. And I’m not seeing an official stance for or against, from groups like the World Health Organization, American Medical Association or the British Medical Association.
And please - don’t quote anyone like Donald Trump. He has a bias, in that he has a product called Trump wine (see Is the Trump Winery the largest winery on the East Coast?). 
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