Hi all,
I’m Chuck. I’m new and this is my first post aside from the intro.
After browsing around a bit I notice there is a high level of intelligence here.
I am delighted in that an look forward to having discussions here.
My 1rst topic of “Free Will” was chosen because I have a unique, yet scriptural, outlook on what free will is. My belief is from what I read in the Bible and would like to get some chatter about it.
First off, I would like to give my definition of free will.
Free will to choose between good and evil. Not between an apple or peach. Or to help the poor or the sick.
Next I would like to give my understanding of free will. What is needed to have it. And where did it come from. Who made it.
So I am going to have to give a somewhat long version to insure and hope that I am understood. I speak plainly and simply and would also appreciate replies to do so. Not everyone is highly educated and Jesus spoke simply.
We are made things. Anyone who believes in God would not argue that. So even our minds are made. How we think, how we ration, how we come to any conclusions are directly related to how we were programmed. If one believes that, then he would have to conclude that we are not responsible for how we believe. God made me this way. We had nothing to do with how we would come out. We did not get to choose out hair color, eye color, physical looks or our MIND. We opened our eyes and took our first breath having no clue.
Also it is written that we are temples made to house a Spirit. I am of the understanding that the Spirit controls the actions and the choices in regards to good and evil. I will use Jesus as an example of One that only did good and what He said.
I did not come to do My will, but the will of the Father who sent Me. <that verse says it all but I will elaborate on it anyway. If free will is so important and we must willingly choose to believe as is taught in most Christian based denominations, why would Jesus say that? He is clearly saying He does not do His own will, only the will of the Father. He is not saying He chooses to do the will of the Father. And He is saying He has a will but does not do it. He only does the will of the Father. “I only say what I heard from the Father” “I only do what the Father commands me to do”
So it appears He is conscience and aware of who He is and what is going on. And He explains it pretty simply. Forgive me for not giving references, I assume you are familiar with scripture. If you are not, you can find most of what I quote in the Book of John. It is also written that “Gods Spirit” was with Him always. Except for the brief time when He took all sin on Himself and died. “Father, why has thou forsaken me”
So we have a Man that has Gods Spirit with Him always. Not the Holy Spirit also called the comforter. It is also pretty obvious that God is running the show that the Lord does. As Jesus says multiple times that He only does as commanded by the Father.
Now lets move to another example. A man possessed by an evil spirit or demon. Or for this example we will use the man that had Legion. It is pretty clear, if you are familiar with the story, that the demons controlled the man. As is evident when Jesus called them out and the man no longer had them, He became normal again. So when we look at this man while he had demons, was it his fault? Was he doing his own will. Would he be held accountable for the evil he did? Absolutely not. Something evil took over control of that man. The man was defenseless. Not even able to ask for help.
And the same goes for Jesus. Yet the Spirit that was in control of Him only did Good. But that Spirit was in control. Jesus was not and says so. Being temples also says so.
This subject can go off in many directions so I will end with one last example and look forward to it going off into a full spectrum.
"If a man hears my words and rejects them, I do not judge him. He has “that” which judges him already-The Word will judge “him” on the last day.
It is clear to me what the man has “that” is an evil sprit.
And what the Word will judge is “that” evil Spirit. called “him” I know the "him is not the man, for Jesus just said He does not judge the man. And Jesus is the “Word” so with that knowledge, the ‘him’ here can not be the man but what the man has. And if you know English, that dash clearly shows the next sentence is related to the sentence connected by the dash-. Here’s a pasted copy of the exact way it is written in the NKJV
John 12:47
47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
KJV
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
(In this case the : connects the the last part of the sentence with the next phrase. The way it is written clearly is meant to say, that what the man has will be judged.
So by that, it is also saying: it is not the mans fault he rejects the words. Not to mention that Jesus said plain and simply that He did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. And we all know that men are part of the world and the Creation of the world. Demons and fallen angels and Satan are not.
So that should be enough to get the topic rolling. Thanks for having me.