The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Show me one verse Jesus Taught Universalism

:blush: :blush: I haven’t yet! :sunglasses:
Sonia

naughty you - go stand in the corner :smiley:

John 5:22 - For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,
John 8:15 - Jesus said “You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one”
John 12:31,32 - 31Now is the judgment of this world; now the prince of this world will be cast out. 32And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all to Myself.”

A note - the word “men” or “people” isn’t in the text. It’s inserted by poor translation. The subject that he’s drawing to himself is "judgement ". He’s the lamb that takes away the sin of the world. That’s why judgment in 2 cor 5:10 has a past tense verb, missed by every translation but one (the mirror). Jesus time stamps THE (not A) judgement of the world two thousand years ago.

Luke 19:10 - For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost. (Pretty wide range of people given that “all we like sheep have gone astray”)
John 19:30 - When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,”

I could drone on and on but my flight is about to take off. Got to hit post and turn my phone off

I’ve had some similar thoughts back HERE.

The Clearest Text Indicating Correction After Judgment

I consider the following to be the clearest text in the Bible concerning the correction of the unrighteous after they are judged!

The Lord knows how to deliver the devout out of trial, but to reserve the unrighteous for a day of judgment, to be corrected. (2 Peter 2:9)

Here is an interlinear for your consideration:
οιδεν—κυριος— ευσεβεις εκ πειρασμου ρυεσθαι— αδικους
knows the Lord- devout—out of trial—— to deliver-unrighteous

δε -εις —ημεραν κρισεως—— κολαζομενους τηρειν
but into a day—- of judgment to be corrected to keep (2 Peter 2:9)

The whole strength of this text lies in the translation of the lexical form of κολαζομενους, that is, “κολαζω” as “to correct”. I realize that some may object to this translation, but the Online Bible Greek Lexicon gives the primary meanings of “κολαζω”as:

  1. to lop or prune
  2. to chastise, correct, punish

Abbott-Smith’s A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament gives the meanings:

  1. to curtail, dock, prune
  2. to check, restrain
  3. to chastise, correct, punish

Originally, the word was used in reference to the pruning of trees, shrubs, or vines with a view to correcting their growth by shaping them. Later it was used figuratively with reference to the correction of people, e.g. Children. To translate the word as “punish” is correct as long as it is understood to be reformative rather than retributive. In English, “punish” may have either connotation, although it is more often taken in the latter sense, or in the sense of administering a penalty.

In Greek, the word “τιμωρεω” has the meaning “to punish” in the retributive sense. Indeed, every lexicon I have checked gives the primary meaning as “to avenge”. Strongs indicates that the word was derived from the two words “τιμη” (honour) and “οὐρος”(guard). Put them together, and you have the concept of a person guarding his honour through vengeance. In recording Paul’s own words concerning his treatment of disciples of Christ prior to Paul’s becoming a disciple himself, Luke wrote:

Acts 22:5 "as also the high priest bears me witness, and all the council of the elders, from whom I also received letters to the brethren, and went to Damascus to bring in chains even those who were there to Jerusalem to be punished (τιμωρεω).
Acts 26:11 "and I punished (τιμωρεω) them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities.

One of the best ways to get a sense of how a Greek word is used is to note how it is used in literature. The word is used in 4 Macabees 2:12 to indicate correction of children. No good parent punishes his children out of vengeance, but corrects them out of love.

4 Macabees is thought to have been written sometime between 100 B.C. to 100 A.D., that is, in the period in which the New Testament was written. It seems the author had been strongly moved by his reading of the deeds of Antiochus Ephiphanes against the Jews in 1 and 2 Macabees. So much of his “philosophical” thought and “devout reason” centers around the history he read there. In the following sentence he uses both “τιμωρεω” and “ κολαζω“ in a single sentence!

The tyrant Antiochus was both punished (τιμωρεω) on earth and is being corrected (κολαζω) after his death. (4 Maccabees 18:5)

The Judaistic belief at the time was that people’s souls survive death. So the sentence seems to say that whereas Antochus’s enemies got their revenge on him and his armies here on earth, God began to correct his soul after death. The author apparently held that post-mortem punishment was remedial. Otherwise he would not have chosen the word “κολαζω” but would have maintained the word “τιμωρεω” for his punishment after death, too.

Here is an example from the Septuagint translation of Ezekiel 43:10-11:

And you, son of man, show to the household of Israel, the house, and show its appearance and its arrangement,that they may cease from their sins. And they shall receive their κολασις concerning all their doings, and you shall describe the house, and its entrances and its foundation, and all its systems, and you shall make known to them all it regulations and describe them in their presence, and they shall guard all my righteous ordinances and all my commands and do them. (Ezekiel 43:10-11)

In this passage, God states His purpose in asking Ezekiel to show the house to Israel, namely that they may cease from their sins. He immediately follows this with “And they shall receive their κολασις concerning all their doings.” If God wants them to cease from their sins, and then gives them κολασις, is he punishing them retributively, or is He correcting them? The answer seems plain. Furthermore the conclusion of the matter is that the Israelites “will guard all my righteous ordinances and all my commands and do them.”

Surely this is reformation, and not mere revenge for their wrongdoing in the past.
Here is the Concordant translation of the verse that indicates the correction of the unrighteous (or “unjust”)

The Lord is acquainted with the rescue of the devout out of trial, yet is keeping the unjust for chastening in the day of judging.

Late the party, but seen this gem in the recent topics list… The spirit of the OP is an all too common spirit I have encountered. When the Bible talks about testing the spirits, I think I sort of understand what it means. The spirit of a person can also be called their demeanor, and this demeanor is rude, brash, quarrelsome, dogmatic, arrogant, haughty and just darn juvenile. That is the spirit of someone who uses theology to beat people with a mallet. I have met many such people, indeed, I was such a person way back. It is actually the fuel for a zealot and is dangerous. Thank God I was rescued from this, because this type of zealotry can lead to all sorts of evil behavior. This spirit is no different than the spirit that certain militant sects of Islam possess. It is blind zealotry.

Forgot to mention as well. These people always have names that show they are strong Christians.

“Born Again”
“God’s Chosen”
“LIVIN4THEKING”
“CHRISTISKING”

etc… Comical, really. Nothing shows you are a Christian more than a screen name that says it, while treating others with disrespect on forum message boards.