The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Does Christmas present an emasculated God?

Good comment Kate and Steve,

I think that consumerism and drunkenness, etc., are also worse than the pagan source of Saturnalia; but perhaps the results of corruption were inevitable due to the breach with Paul’s warning: “And what union can there be between God’s temple and idols?” (2 Corinthians 6:16 NLT) We were told there can be no union; and yet we disobeyed. The church decided to disregard the Bible and establish its own righteousness. This corruption is the fruit of the decision. This corruption is not new to our day, either; it has found new faces of corruption in each successive generation. The 4th century church introduced so many of our current institutional corruptions; but because of “church worship” (rather worship of God), the corruption has been left unchecked and growing.

The pharisees were adept at making the bad look good, and causing the population to go back to sleep and not worry about displeasing God. Their traditions were all they needed! They were the gatekeepers and the security for the old corrupt system. That ‘type’ has always existed. They make corrupt practices and vices appear to be marginal and acceptable. That is part of what christianity is about; the same forces that were at work in the 1st century are still at work today, and they have never stopped. We are tested by the same lures that the apostles, Judas, and the nation were tested by. That is why so much of the NT is parable - it is an archetype for all ages. It is not relevant to the past only; it is still an ongoing battle-ground which separates people into moral class groups. This is the wheat and weeds, the sheep and goats, and the separation of sheep and sheep (Jeremiah). This is why we are born - to be tested and sifted. We all make our own beds; that is the purpose of us being moral free-will agents.

Steve, you PAPIST! :laughing:

I set you up well for that one, Stef. :smiley:

:smiley:

God as child-like? I can see how this makes sense. The Bible says, “Whoever then humbles himself as a child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:4), and Paul, for example, says “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Corinthians 1:11). Therefore, we can deduce that “child-like” is a fitting quality of God in a sense. And yet He is also Father. Much like the duality of man and God, so there is a duality of child and father in our Lord.

Maybe that’s just a load of rambling on my part – quite likely. :wink: :laughing:

Dick, I can hardly believe Black Friday just now appeared in the UK. :astonished: Things get pretty crazy over here – and it’s none too fun. And Boxing Day? Forgive the American, but what is Boxing Day? :laughing:

Well, part of the reason my family has taken a big step in the “right direction” is that we’re too poor to do much else! But back when finances were not a worry, we had our share of Christmastimes in the wrong direction, and I prefer the simplicity of gift-giving now (although I must admit, I do wish the decision for simplicity was more self-imposed. :laughing:)

we’re too poor to do much else!

Bring it on home, sister!! I am pickin’ up what you are layin’ down! I’ve been there, then I wasn’t, now I am there again. :wink:
Involuntary simplicity!

Involuntary simplicity! :laughing: But all is well-- a clean, cozy home filled with Goodwill finds is still a clean, cozy home.:slight_smile:

Hi Kate

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I couldn’t resist :smiley: . Boxing Day is my favourite day of the Christmas holiday. It is the day after Christmas Day, and it is a public holiday in the UK. The tradition here is that it is a family day, when all the Christmas day leftovers are eaten, and everybody chills out after the excesses of Christmas Day itself.

As I have said on another thread, here in dear old Blighty it always used to be a tradition that The Great Escape would be on TV on Boxing Day afternoon. Cold turkey (actual cold turkey, not the John Lennon type :laughing: ; ); cold sausages, pickled onions, a few beers or a glass or three of prosecco, and The Great Escape on TV. Wonderful :smiley: .

And just in passing, if you’ve never seen The Great Escape, with Steve McQueen at his all-time cool best, then you need to get straight down your local Blockbuster and get the DVD. Right now :laughing: .

All the best

Johnny

ahh, watching the boxing day Test at the MCG on tv… what joy :smiley:

Right now, only an Aussie could say that, Davo :laughing: .

We’ll be back!

J

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So Boxing Day is the time where everyone breathes a sign of relief, because the rowdy relatives have all come and gone? :laughing: Then we Americans definitely have Boxing Day, too – and we love it so much, we should really give it a name, as well.

I love Advent, but I rather dread Christmas Day itself, what with all the rush and usually a dysfunctional extended family gathering. :laughing: So perhaps that makes Boxing Day my favorite holiday, too. And the cold turkey sandwiches and other delicious leftovers are the best part of Thanksgiving, as well.

I will look through my library and local video store for The Great Escape. We here don’t have any specifically “after Christmas” shows to watch, but a traditional Thanksgiving movie, which I really like, is Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. (It’s got Steve Martin and John Candy, so how could it go wrong? :smiley: )

That is very intersting. Which dates did the CC choose for thoses masses?
Thanks and blessings
Dani

Those masses were started in the 300s. The first time that was done in honour of the three births of Christ, was the first Chrismas. Some have written that his occured in 324 A.D.

Paidion,
so they celebrated all three masses on the 25th of december?
And did they say that they celebrate the first birth BEFORE ALL AGES?
Blessings
Dani