The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Essentials

I’t’s just about as unimaginable to me, as folks seeing the X-Files back on TV and not becoming exited about it :exclamation:

While the 2016 episode 1 was a let down, it’s back up to speed in Episode 2. It just conflicts time wise, with Super Girl on CVS. But Super Girl has gotten pretty exciting, with the Martian Manhunter, being part of the show. But afterwards, I can watch the nerds on Scorpion :exclamation: :laughing:

Here’s something you can try, that I’ve shared on Twitter today: :laughing:

31 of the Best Office Pranks & Practical Jokes to Pull on Your Work Buddies

I’t’s just about as unimaginable to steve7150 wrote:I don’t understand how a Christian could read the NT and not be a Trinitarian, but I love you non-Trins all the same…

me, as folks seeing the X-Files back on TV and not becoming exited about it :exclamation:

Actually the quote above was from Qaz. :astonished:

Multitasking again. It can trip me up at times. :exclamation: :laughing:

This is a fascinating question/problem Dave.
If I give an answer “no”, then as you say, it could be seen as curt. If I also say that I worship a different God to Calvinists, then this may confirm my ‘lack of love’, but although those examples may be a true reflection of my beliefs, I need to add that I think we ALL worship different Gods in that each of us has a construct in our minds which doesn’t come close to the true God. We do our best but the characteristics I impose on my God will be very/slightly different to my fellow traveler and those characteristics IMO are much more important than whether we hold to a virgin birth or triune being or…
To be clear, I think I would feel easier worshiping with a muslim such as Rumi than worshiping with, say, a hyper-Calvinist.

Well, Pilgrim, I joked about the question before.

But there is a lot of seriousness in that answer. If you ask if indigenous people, Sikhs, Muslims, Jews, Christians and Bahais, worship a monotheistic God, who created the universe, the answer is Yes.

If you ask - for example - “does the Christian and Muslim God, have the same attributes” - the answer is NO. You just need to read the book What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Qur’an by James W. White, to answer that question. The God of Christianity is a God of grace and forgiveness. The God of Islam has angels count your good and bad deeds and has a system of laws. Hopefully, the good deeds outweigh the bad, at the end of life. Only in their mystical movement of Sufism, does Islam approach Christianity.

To understand more, read the referred book. Or watch the Theosophical Society webcast this Thursday, 1/28/16 at 7 PM CST on Islamic Spirituality: The Role of Religious Law, by a professor in religious studies. He’s at the College of Dupage (with a PhD from Yale). Or watch the rebroadcast, about a week later, at Theosophical Society rebroadcasts

It’s nice that the Faculty advisory board at Wheaton College, recently recommended dropping the termination procedure against the black professor. She said “Muslims and Christians worship the same God”. Perhaps if she hired me to intercede (at the college on her behalf), this would never have become an issue. :laughing:

Good stuff.

If you ask - for example - “does the Christian and Muslim God, have the same attributes” - the answer is NO. You just need to read the book What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Qur’an b6 James W. White, to answer that question. The God of Christianity is a God of grace and forgiveness. The God of Islam has angels count your good and bad deeds and has a system of laws. Hopefully, the good deeds outweigh the bad, at the end of life. Only in their mystical movement of Sufism, does Islam approach Christianity.

Yes plus many other differences. In Islam God is never thought of as a Father nor are believers sons of God. God is unknowable, distant , believers are slaves, salvation is uncertain except in martyrdom and women are property and to believe God had a Son is blasphemous.

Plus there is a certain amount of fatalism in Islamic theology and philosophy. Just read the New York Times article Islam’s Tragic Fatalism

I think presenting biblical universalism to the body of Christ at large, or even just evangelicals as a group, presents more than enough challenges for those of us who understand it to unite around and stay focused upon. To me it is a way more important understanding than the issues surrounding the structure of Deity, or Calvinism vs Aminianism, or preterism vs historicism, or symbolism versus literalism, or liberalism vs fundamentalism :laughing:

Thank God,

It WILL all come out in the wash.

I dont think anyone will be known as a Trinitarian or a Unitarian or an Evangelical, Catholic or Protestant once that sun comes over the horizon.

For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased”— 18 and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

19** So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.** 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
1 Pet 1

For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.1 Cor 4

It WILL all come out in the wash.

Easy for you to say, you haven’t seen my wash? It’s interesting how folks react not even to CU but simply to the possibility of salvation after death. I said that to a Christian friend of my wife and it made her angry? It’s like if other people can get saved it makes their salvation less special? At least I can’t think of any other explanation.

and

It’s beginning to sound a lot like Calvinism.

“[The Reformers’] creed has been described as a return to the Gospel in the spirit of the Koran.”
The Very Rev. W. R. Inge, The Platonic Tradition in English Religious Thought, 1926

I think if they saw that their destiny is to restore the creation, arm in arm with Jesus, it could help- but they are mostly stuck between heaven and hell. Christian heaven being some kind of nirvana of hymn singing and praise and staring at Jesus for a thousand years every once in a while between flying around with angels(for the daring)… you know, just so ecstatically grateful not to be burning forever like those folks screaming over on the other side of the wall down in the ditch of molten lava. :wink:

Actually, Paidion, you might have come up with an interesting insight:

From Calvinism To Islam

And the article also says this:

You just need to read the book What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Qur’an by James W. White (available via your local US public library - or equivalent in other countries). Or watch the Theosophical Society webcast this Thursday, 1/28/16 at 7 PM CST on Islamic Spirituality: The Role of Religious Law, by a professor in religious studies. He’s at the College of Dupage (with a PhD from Yale). Or watch the rebroadcast, about a week later, at Theosophical Society rebroadcasts

When I was 21, I attended a Bible school for a year. I recall that the History-of-Missions instructor spoke of a Muslim who had killed his wife, and who then stated that it was the will of God.

I believe that watching the Yale PhD philosophy professor, speak on Islamic law - has the option for remote questions. If so, I plan to ask about fatalism in Islam. If we assume a 100% deterministic theological and philosophical model of reality and God, then why do anything? And if we accept the Muslim’s view on killing his wife, then God creates both evil, and metal illness. But I feel strongly - that the Muslim (being laity) - got it wrong! The Christian site Answering Islam, gives the answer that Islamic scholars would give:

Total predestination - or the free will of man?

And let’s look at some Quora answers regarding this:

Does Islam and the Quran negate the idea of free will?
How does Islam reconcile Allah’s omniscience and human’s free will?
Does Islam say that human beings have free will?
How is free will in Islam in the light of this verse?

But fatalism is very strong - in both Islam and Calvinism. We might as well accept this Christian woman’s version, that the devil made her buy that dress:

Randy wrote:Plus there is a certain amount of fatalism in Islamic theology and philosophy.

It’s beginning to sound a lot like Calvinism.

Yes actually Calvinism on steroids. Like if a women gets raped, she is killed for it possibly because it was Allah’s will?

Well, Steve, i’m not here to defend Islam. That’s a job for Muslims, on Muslim and secular forums (i.e. Quora). But I would say they are mixing tribal customs with Islam. No secular court would let them get away with it. Nor would most - if not all - **legitimate **Islamic courts. Unless it’s some goofy faction like ISIS.

Well, Steve, i’m not here to defend Islam. That’s a job for Muslims, on Muslim and secular forums (i.e. Quora). But I would say they are mixing tribal customs with Islam. No secular court would let them get away with it. Nor would most - if not all - legitimate Islamic courts. Unless it’s some goofy faction like ISIS.

Well Randy my source are ex Muslims who became Christians and talk about Islam and what it’s holy books the Quran and Hadith actually say. So it is second hand info but corroborated by three or four people usually.