Sorry Valliant⌠just finishing off some thoughts with Paidion.
This here I think is the nub of the issue⌠that they could have access to the Tree of Life and âlive foreverâ logically dictates that physical death, i.e., biological demise was ALREADY present and a natural part of the created order.
Had A & E partaken of the Tree of Life in their now fallen state SIN would have been immortalised and man screwed. We all sin, itâs natural⌠Paul said âhe who has died is freed from sinâ and so it is we all die the physical death we were naturally meant to die. Prior to Jesus defeating (spiritual) death humanity at natural death was locked up in Hades (the grave) i.e., âno one has ascended to the Fatherâ. Thus when Jesus ascended He led captivity (spiritual death) captive giving gifts (grace, liberty and life) to men.
Again, that physical pain and death was a natural part of the created order is a given, for whatever food they partook of (prior to their infraction) was in the process of biological demise (death) as it was sustaining them, i.e., giving them LIFE. Also⌠thatâs Eveâs pain in conception/childbirth was âmultipliedâ is obviously indicative of the presence of pain pre-fall as well. As perfect in one sense that Eden was Christendom has magicallised paradise to something it logically never was.
Yes indeed Don, and thatâs what the ensuing redemptive stories of Scripture are all about⌠Adam â Israel â Christ; undoing that spiritual/relational separation i.e., spiritual death.
Yes that always seems to be standard fair in attempting to juggle away what seems obvious from the text, but I find it most unconvincing IMO. Bible search the phrase âsurely dieâ and you wonât find one text where the interpolation âyou shall surely dieâ can have âbeginâ with any credibility squeezed into it⌠again IMO. âYou shall surely dieâ was a direct executable judgment without any equivocation or doubt as to its certainty. It basically meant âfrom the moment you ____ you shall dieâ i.e., there will be no turning back.
This above although indeed referencing physical death would still be understood as executable via divine edict with reasonably short term effect, as opposed to living a long life full of begetting âsons and daughtersâ and finally dying at a ripe old age near a millennium later⌠that seems far from âin the dayâŚâ.
A & E sinned and from that âdayâ onward their spiritual relationship with God was fractured with the inevitable consequence being expulsion and exile (spiritual death) from His presence. Until Jesus rectified this Adamâs problem was humanityâs problem. This at least is how Iâm presently understanding this scenario.