Hi

[nikkik]

Hi,

I just found your board. Recently, my pastor felt it was necessary to call out Rob Bell and his book Love Wins for being heretical. I have seen Rob Bell speak before and liked him. A friend of mine said that Rob said most people criticize his book without even reading it. I decided to read it.

After reading Love Wins, I had a lot more questions. I found tentmaker.org, and it answered a lot of them. I also read The Evangelical Universalist and have been reading Hope Beyond Hell.

I'm a little scared of my beliefs at this point. I'm really happy on one hand, it is a much happier ending than I did believe in. I thought that in order for me to be a christian, I had to believe in a place of everlasting torment where many members of my family may go. I was so greatful my sins were forgiven, I couldn't not be a christian. But I've always hated the doctrine of hell. The doctrine of hell as a place where people are "refined by fire" or "purified" for redemptive purposes makes much more sense to me. What's the point in punishing someone endlessly?

But what makes the most sense to me is the logic. The bible says God's word will accomplish it's purposes (Isaiah 55:11). It also says God doesn't want anyone to perish, but all to come to repentence (2 Peter 3:9). So, if this is true, I really think Universalism is far more likely than Calvanism or Arminianism.

Why on earth are you called a heretic for this belief? It is to believe in a God who has a plan, who is love like he says, who had a plan from the very beginning. I know revelation says some things that need to be reinterpreted, or understood differently. But it is starting to make sense to me.

I don't want to tell my small group, pastor, or church about this. I found a group that calls themselves the "happy heretics" (universalists) that meets the same night as my small group. I don't know what to say to them. I'm close friends with the leader, who tends to be pretty controlling. I image she would likely tell me I'm going to hell if she knew what I now believe.

Anyhow, that's just a bit about me. I'm glad to have found this forum,
Nikki

[revdrew61]

Hi Nikki, A very warm welcome to the forum. I'm sure you will find a great deal of encouragement and support here. Love and prayers, Drew

[JasonPratt]

Welcome to the forum, Nikki!

To be fair, strictly speaking if universalism is wrong then it is a theological error, i.e. heresy. People who think it's wrong aren't just pulling that word out of the air and throwing it around without cause. You should try to be patient with them--but I don't recommend accepting the description of "heretic", even in ironic defiance.

[I sit in Awe.]

Welcome Nikki! Good to have you over here.

I pray God will continue to bring even greater insights to you through this board. I know he has for me.

Negativity and even outright hate is what many on this board have faced when openly talking to their church about their views. I pray if you face that, it will only strengthen your understanding of the Love of God, and that you will shine as a light in a dark place.

what part of the Country are you from?

[Sherman]

Welcome Nikkik,

I trust that you'll find this forum to be a place of encouragement as you continue to study the Word. If you continue to study, it's likely that you'll need it, just as it's likely that you'll be accussed unjustly and ultimately excluded from the fellowship you're currently a part of, especially considering your pastor disagreed so strongly with Love Wins. And all Love Wins does is question ECT and the assumption that there is no chance of post-mortem salvation, and raises the possibility of UR.

So where do you live? Family? Age? Background? We really enjoy getting to know one another around here.

[URPilgrim]

Welcome Nikkik. I pray that this forum will bless you and that you will be a blessing to us here

[Alex Smith]

Welcome Nikki! I can relate to your introduction too. I'm glad you found us here It's hard to "come out" & face potential rejection by friends (& sometimes even relatives). And I agree with Jason, universalism per se isn't heresy (e.g. Gregory of Nyssa is still one of the great Church Fathers).

[Kelly S]

Hi Nikki!
Welcome!

[sturmy]

Welcome aboard Nikki may your travel here be a good one- knowing the One that stears the ship!
S

[SLJ]

Hi Nikki,
Thanks for sharing a bit about yourself! It doesn't sound like you are in a church that would be accepting of "alternative" beliefs like UR. Do you feel you need to tell them about your new beliefs right away?

I hope this forum will be helpful to you and that you will feel free to jump into the discussions or start topics of your own!

Sonia

[amy]

Welcome Nikki, nice to have you here! Where did you learn of this happy heretic group? I'd love to join!

[WE ARE ALL BROTHERS]

Welcome Nikki! Hope you find this community as warm and helpful as I have.

Andrew

[corpselight]

welcome to the forum...sounds like a pretty scary place to be in, and ironic given that your pastor unwittingly pushed you into checking this out for yourself. maybe there are others as well, afraid to speak out in case they get branded heretics like Rob Bell! and all he did (not read the book yet) is ask questions...yeesh.
Jason's right. ultimately we must be patient with others who aren't there yet...hopefully God will bring you some people to fellowship with. i think most of us on here have to be cautious about to whom we share our beliefs with...it can be very divisive, and as Robin Parry has said, it isn't "the most important" thing...for example, if we're right, it doesn't matter what arguments we win...at the end, EVERYONE wins. if we're wrong, at least we are "erring" on the side of love, which i think is a Biblical stance.
not that i don't wish everyone was as liberated as this. getting rid of hellfire as a Christian doctrine would do us all the world of good.
all this is just to say be strong and courageous, and that i hope you get some good fellowship here

[nikkik]

Thanks for the replies.

As for me, I'm 34 and from Elgin, IL. I currently work in Chicago, and I'm a computer programmer by profession. I have some girlfriends I meet with to pray and talk with regularly. I live with my sister and grandfather. How about you guys/gals?

[JasonPratt]

I help manage the family factory since Dad retired for health reasons over ten years ago.

Being unmarried, and because our family business often involves strategizing and other discussion after (and before) hours--as well as to be handy for Dad's health reasons when necessary--I rent a room from my parents. I like to think of it as buying the house slowly.

I would much prefer to live alone, or with my wife, in a small house. But not the best thing for my family right now.

[Sherman]

I'm turning 50 next February, married with 4 children (22, 19, 11, 7), 3 boys and the girl is 11. I live in TN and enjoy coaching and refing Soccer with my children. My 22 year old son has actually coached a recreation soccer team for my 7 year old son the last 4 seasons. I never played soccer growing up, but have come to really enjoy the sport.

I hope you enjoy the discussions and getting to know everyone here Nikkik.

Blessings and Merry Christmas,
Sherman

[Cindy Skillman]

Hey, Nikkik!

Just saw your into post, so here's my welcome and greeting. I'm fairly new here, too, and a couple or three months old in UR. You know what's so cool about this? I drive into town and I see people in the other cars, walking along the sidewalks, etc., and I think, "Wow! I'll know that person one day and she'll be a dear sister or he'll be a great brother, and we'll all be family and love one another." That sure beats worrying about them and where they'll end up and what will happen to them and feeling I'm somehow responsible because I don't know how to persuade them to follow Jesus. I feel like I have such a wonderful treasure now, knowing that all the world really is family (or will be).

I'm in Rapid City, SD (well, when I'm in town), part of an organic church fellowship which shall remain nameless because, well, we don't have a name. I feel pretty sure that I'm alone in my new UR beliefs, but I can't imagine anyone rejecting me for this (disagreeing probably, but not rejecting). They do know what's going on with me, if they're reading my blog, but no one's said anything thus far. I wouldn't try to push my beliefs off on them, and in my memory we've never talked about hell anyhow.

I'm a potter, artist, pottery and art teacher, former RN, wife and mother (youngest just moved out of the house. (sob) ) and live way out in the woods with my sweet husband and two substantial dogs.

[SLJ]

I'm 39, wife to one man, mother to 6 kids ranging from 16 down to 4 years old. My husband is a high school teacher and I'm a full time mom and homeschool the kiddos. We live on an acre of desert on the edge of Carson City, NV with a whole bunch of animals -- a petting zoo basically -- so I guess I should just tell people I live in a zoo. We're involved in a non-denominational conservative church.

Sonia

[SLJ]

I really relate to what Cindy shared above -- my outlook on life and how I view others has totally changed since I came to believe in UR. But since it's been about 7 years for me, I begin to take the new outlook for granted and forget how different it is from how I used to think! My thoughts towards others are characterized more by hope, love, and joy, instead of despair and uncomfortable wondering about their fate. I'm now convinced that all the people I see are safe in God's loving and just hands -- that He truly has the best intentions and plans for them and will not let any of His creatures be forever lost.

Sonia

[edwardtulane82]

Hi Nikki Welcome I'm pretty new here myself, and my experience is similar to your own. Like you, it was Rob Bell's book that got me asking questions (or re-asking questions I'd always asked, to be honest), which eventually led me to other books, and then eventually to tentmaker.org, and then here.
Like you, my view of the world has changed, though perhaps in subtler ways, and I'm more hopeful then I once was.
One of the differences in our story though is that my pastor denounced Love Wins from the pulpit a few weeks after I read it... only he was probably more gentle about it then it sounds like your pastor was.
I can totally relate to how you feel right now as I'm in the same boat, not knowing for sure what steps to take next... I was thinking of leaving my church seriously before my views about heaven and hell started changing, so I'm sure you could imagine how much I'm thinking about it now :/ I have been thinking about checking into the United Methodist church nearby, as I've heard that the Methodists have a tendency to be more open-minded theologically...
I'm not sure what will happen.
But whatever happens, we should never give up, because God is with us.
I've found encouragement here, and I'm sure you will too. There are others here who can really relate to how you're feeling right now, and you're not alone.

Blessings to you sister

Matt