The Evangelical Universalist Forum

What is justification and why is it necessary?

I found it Here

thanx :smiley:

Is it clearer if I say that these words of Paul suggest that he does not understand “legal, forensic justification” as what meets our real need?

Mrs Ozera objected to Jason, “you believe that justification is not just being declared legally righteous, but requires us actually becoming righteous to some degree.” But I find that Paul’s claims that those who obey and actually DO good are the ones declared righteous and get eternal life supports those here who point out that ‘justify’ has the core meaning of actually “making us righteous” or just, not simply treating us as if we are righteous. As Paul puts it, Jesus gave himself to create a people who do “Not LIVE according to the sinful nature.” I find the whole Biblical narrative presents this sort of actual righteousness as the goal God desires to produce and is pursuing.

I agree… there is NO such thing as “positional righteousness” as is often defined. We are simply righteous, but not according to any performance on our part; such righteousness was God’s gift in Christ to humanity. It is BECAUSE OF this we can then learn… “to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives in the present age” — thus living in the fruit or reality of Christ’s righteousness. Responding to Christ helps righteousness become a lived reality, i.e., tapping into ‘eternal life’ as the present reality it is, as per the likes of… Jn 10:10b; 14:23; 16:33a, et al <<< this IS ‘eternal life’.

Check out this post HERE and give yourself about ¾ of an hour to see a good explanation between ‘righteousness’ as we see it as opposed to the reality of how God sees it.

The OP was a question about the concept ‘justification’, right?
26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

I don’t think justification is a matter of character in the above verses; when Paul wants to speak about character, he does so plainly.

Sorry Bob I do not understand when you say

You’ll have to clarify that to me.

You said

YUP… there is a distinct difference between those who think that these scriptures are written to us and those who believe that they are historical. Every time you think you need to do something you’re screwed :laughing: The paradigm is different. :open_mouth:

Thanks

chad

And to me. While being ‘justified’ is by no means the end of the work that Christ has for us - and GMac, better than anyone imo, has the handle on that - still, ‘justification’ is a word Paul used, explaining it as a word approving that a person does believe in the God who raised Jesus from the dead. A person that believes that way is ‘justified’ - it’s not a word about holiness, or seeking to do good - Paul talks a lot about that in other places.

To help the gentile Roman Christians locate themselves in history, though, Paul goes back prior to Moses-Torah (the law) all the way to Abram, to show God’s righteousness in HIs faithfulness to that covenant even in the face of Israel’s and indeed all mankind’s failures and sin. God stayed faithful as always, and it should evoke faithfulness in us (from faith(fulness) to faith(fulness)).

Justification is God’s approval that we are on the right Way, by that kind of faith - in God who raised Jesus. And to go on that Way shows that we are justified. Nothing we can feel, but something we need to know.

And now all Heck can break loose :unamused:

Quite so Dave. As I understand it… it is the realisation of justification that enables as you say… “the work that Christ has for us” to take shape. Thus it is not dissimilar to our established state of reconciliation, of which there is a call to then live according to it, i.e., the essence of Paul’s “be ye reconciled to God.” — remembering Paul is addressing this to “believers” NOT unbelievers.

Good, well said.

Dave, when we understand the word translated as “justified” to mean “rendered righteous” then the verses you quoted make total sense with respect to character change as a result of Christ’s sacrifice.

How would you understand “justification of life” in the following verse?

Does God through Christ justify our wicked lives so that we are acceptable in His sight just are we are, with no change in life style being necessary? Or should the expression be translated as “righteousification of life”—that is the free gift resulted in our formerly sinful lives becoming righteous?

P.S. I realize that “righteousification” is not an English word, but I coined it for this purpose. I can’t think of any known English word that could be used instead, to indicate our lives having been made righteous.

Paidion - I don’t think righteousness, as a character trait or fruit of the spirit - can be imputed. There is no ‘gift’ of character as far as I can tell. Patient endurance (often in suffering) does build character. I wish there was an easier way.

Who sets himself not sternly to be good,
Is but a fool, who judgment of true things
Has none, however oft the claim renewed.
And he who thinks, in his great plenitude,
To right himself, and set his spirit free,
Without the might of higher communings,
Is foolish also–save he willed himself to be.
GMac, Diary of an Old Soul entry June 15

Correct. It is not “imputed” or “counted as righteousness.”

The text says that Abraham’s faith was counted TOWARD righteousness (with righteousness as the goal).

Well, what do you know? The Calvinist site Got Questions - has addressed this.

Why is justification by faith such an important doctrine?

Whoa - not only missed the boat, did not even see the ocean!

This is what you need to know: (don’t I sound pompous and authoritative? :blush: )

ntwrightpage.com/2016/04/05/the- … ification/

I do like NT Wright. But what is the “criteria”, for determining the Calvinists - have missed the boat and ocean:?: :laughing:

That would be your Bible, Randy.
More of my arrogance and pomposity. :astonished:

Which can bring us, a variety of theological positions Dave. Unless you are suggesting, all churches and theologians - are in agreement - on what it says :question: :unamused:

Doesn’t matter. I’m Wright.

Well, I do see how NT Wright, talks about the P-Zombie version of hell. Which got me on my quest…regarding the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse. So we are both Wright. :wink:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/plantsvszombies/images/3/30/Dancing-Zombie.gif/revision/latest?cb=20101130032626