The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Whose Faith?

MM. You can have faith in your child. However, if your child has no faith in the power of the Spirit that is within him as well, he won’t accomplish much. This is what happened to Peter.When he got out of the boat to walk on the water, he sank.

And THAT makes the very point of this whole discussion… the gospel is about the revelation of “whose faith?” — God’s faith, i.e., “His belief” in each of us, to where we can cast aside our own insufficient faith (belief) and grasp His with solid assurance — because He alone is faithful!!!

Is it the “=” sign that is confusing?
I was responding to something said earlier, to the effect that, since Jesus is God, and Jesus had faith, that therefore God has faith.

“Jesus is God” is a huge statement, and an ambiguous one, but we’ve hashed that over in other threads for years now. Wouldn’t you say that almost without exception, most evangelicals would say ‘Yes’ to the following question: “Is Jesus God”?

Davo, I think you and MW are grasping at straws. If a person has no faith in his own God given abilities to “move mountains” , he’s not going to move squat.
In reference to “whose faith”, there are many different faiths out there to pick and choose from. Having the faith of Jesus is following the same God that He believed in followed.

I assume MW is the person, who made the YouTube message at youtu.be/-L_vfdJG88w - Davo referred to. Since he has ONLY 300 or so hits, I don’t thinks folks have much faith - in his message. They are probably saying this: :laughing:

But that is kind of the point, (and you just said it very well) the point that God sent his heavenly son to his earthy sons and daughters to take away their sins, something that the law proved beyond a doubt they could not do for themselves. God showed his faithfulness in wanting the best for his creation.

MM, As I said to Davo above… Jesus did not take away our sin. He showed us the way, and if we neither believe in, nor follow that way, our sin remains. As Isaiah says, “Cease to do evil, and learn to do good. Though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be white as snow.”

But you gotta love the theme music from the Alan Parsons Project…

There could indeed be echoes of this in terms of…

Sure, I’d say that. But the BIG question is, “What do various people MEAN when they state that ‘Jesus is God’?”

1.When a Modalist (for example, a United Pentecostal) says “Jesus is God,” he means that God is a single divine Individual, and that His name is “Jesus.”

  1. The Trinitarian believes God is a Trinity. Therefore each member of the Trinity is God. Thus Jesus is God. Probably most evangelicals hold to this position.

  2. The early Christians affirmed that Jesus is God. Sometimes they used the word “God” to refer to the Father alone, and other times they used in in a generic sense, just as we often use “man” in a generic sense. Since you are the son of a human being, you are “man.” Since Jesus is the son of God, He is God (in the generic sense). This is the sense in which John 1:1 states “…and the Word was God.”

This is the sense in which John 1:1 states “…and the Word was God.”
Paidion

Why not “The Word is God” , because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us therefore Jesus is God like the Word was God. It seems to me the Father is the source and from him came the Spirit and the Word.

Steve, I think it is about our faith. There was an age old battle going on between the Israelites which seems to have started after the exodus from Egypt. It was between the sons of Ishmael(prodigal/"illegitimate) and the sons of Isaac( ones who followed the one true God). It was a house divided.
They were going by two different:

  1. faiths-beliefs about God
    2.Laws- the Jewish/Lev. law vs. the Law of Christ
    3.mountains- the Levitical law from Mount Sinai vs. the Law of Christ from Mount Horeb.
    4.trees- one bearing bad fruit vs. one bearing good fruit
  2. seeds- those of the physical seed of Abraham vs. those of the spiritual seed.
    In the end, they were separated by the final destruction of Jerusalem. I believe that those who stood in their faith in the one true God played a big part in making that happen. There are STILL many false religions and false beliefs that exist today. We must decide which faith to live by because there is only one that gives us true life.

My point exactly.

Our bodies are the temple of God.When we live in the Spirit of God according to his word, then God dwells among us. God dwelt among people many times in the past. For example, Exodus 29:45 says this: “I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate Aaron and his sons to minister as priests to Me. I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God.”

This did not make them God. It did not make Jesus God, nor does it make us God.

steve7150 wrote:
Why not “The Word is God” , because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us therefore Jesus is God like the Word was God. It seems to me the Father is the source and from him came the Spirit and the Word

Our bodies are the temple of God.When we live in the Spirit of God according to his word, then God dwells among us. God dwelt among people many times in the past. For example, Exodus 29:45 says this: “I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate Aaron and his sons to minister as priests to Me. I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God.”

This did not make them God. It did not make Jesus God, nor does it make us God.

Yes i agree but that was not my point.

I have some related comments on this, from another thread here at [How should we feel about salvation?)

Steve, From what I understand, the Spirit of God that is in man is the Word. When we obey that Spirit, the Word becomes flesh( the living Word) We dwell in God, God dwells in us and God dwells among us. Again, this does not make us God. God is not a man. Man is not God. However, God is a part of man.

Steve, From what I understand, the Spirit of God that is in man is the Word. When we obey that Spirit, the Word becomes flesh( the living Word) We dwell in God, God dwells in us and God dwells among us. Again, this does not make us God. God is not a man. Man is not God. However, God is a part of man.

Well obviously you can come to your own understanding but i’m not aware of several of your conclusions being spelled out in scripture. This last conclusion, “God is a part of man” is ambiguous because scripture says that the Holy Spirit indwells us or may even fill us but i don’t know how that means “God is a part of man.”? The Holy Spirit can also leave us IMO therefore i don’t see it as part of us, like an arm or leg.

One could ask the same question concerning the preceding clause. “Why not ‘The word is with God’?”

The answer to both questions is answered in the first clause “In the beginning was the Word.” All three clauses state the relationship between the Word and God IN THE BEGINNING.

One could ask the same question concerning the preceding clause. “Why not ‘The word is with God’?”

The answer to both questions is answered in the first clause “In the beginning was the Word.” All three clauses state the relationship between the Word and God IN THE BEGINNING.

Right and good observation. But presumably God spoke after Jesus birth yet we never hear God’s word referred to as God anymore. So i guess it’s a symbolic expression and that description did in fact transfer to Jesus.