The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Free Willism or God's Soeveignty in Salvation of All

Tell me if I’m wrong, her lips are not saying ‘it’s out of context’

She is not saying the word ‘Its’ with her lips. That particular word does not need lippage.

:astonished:

Do these “black TV Pentecostal preachers” teach the doctrine of “prosperity”?

Prosperity preachers like the Copelands, Wommack, the Hinns, Oral Roberts, Joseph Prince & many others claim to base their views on Scripture.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

You may simply be a troll, like gnostic bishop, to have your fun with us. You do not seem to react to council. :mrgreen:

Who’s to say that the partying Paul referred to is the ONLY partying there is. By virtue of the recognition God’s work in Christ i.e., reconciliation, “Christians” should be some of the most overtly “happy” (partying) people on the planet, thereby reflecting “the joy of the Lord” — but unfortunately we’ve learned it’s all about keeping a stiff upper lip and not cracking a smile because “we’re crucifying each day with Christ”. :open_mouth: Give me a break… that’s nothing but false humility and a TOTAL turnoff by way of supposed “witness” — imHo.

Salvation certainly is. As to postmortem… there may be some form of recompense (IF I were God there sure would be — lucky for all I’m not) but if there were it wouldn’t/doesn’t involve so-called burning in the “lake of fire”… that was John’s symbolic language equivalent with Jesus’ “gehenna” aka the destruction of Jerusalem of AD70. That was the terminus of the old covenant world, or as John also identifies it… “the second death” — there was to be NO RESURRECTION from Israel’s LoF, i.e., no resurrection of law-righteousness.

Well typically no but that pretty much reflect your level of understanding.

“Eternal life” is relational life with God in the HERE AND NOW, as per Jesus’ most distinct definition…

Notice with regards to “eternal life” Jesus states… “this is” NOT “this will be” — He is speaking of PRESENT life realities.

Everyone has different motivations… what’s yours?

Yeah well, so you’ve quoted that without any comment… AND?

The 1 Cor.6 passage came with a question: “Does this matter”?

Well, it could possibly matter in terms reigning in life or the lack thereof (Rom 5:17), which is WHAT Paul’s “inherit the kingdom” is all about. Anything that might frustrate the call of God to service could do that. Entering the Kingdom is not about anyone getting to Heaven… Jesus already took care of that, for all.

I suppose it might be hard to know what the future holds if one believes all prophesy has been fulfilled already:

“Pantelism, is a recent term in Christian eschatology that refers to what some see as an extension of Full Preterism. This view maintains that the Scriptures both prophetically and redemptively, were entirely fulfilled in the person and work of Christ and consummated at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Accordingly, this consummation included not only Christ’s Second Coming, but the final judgment, the resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the reconciliation of all things. The unorthodox aspect of this view is that the reconciliation accomplished in 70 A.D was such that there no longer remains a lost condition in humanity and therefore no present need for conversion – which reduces to a form of universalism where all are saved and one must simply realize what has been done for all humanity.”

theopedia.com/pantelism

Does that sum up your viewpoint?

Is this your website:

pantelism.com/

If all prophesy was fulfilled by 70 A.D., when did the devil go into the lake of fire (Rev.20:10)? Have the “ages of the ages” ended already:

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night-to the ages of the ages. (Rev.20:10, YLT)

Do you disagree with the article above that there is “therefore no present need for conversion”? Your statement that there “there may be some form of recompense” post mortem seems to be at odds with that.

There are two ways - to preach the prosperity gospel message:

Give money to my TV ministry. And God will bless you, with health and prosperity.
Listen to my message, about God blessing you - with health and prosperity.

Which one is the CORRECT" approach? If the health and prosperity gospel is true?

Concerning the woman who supposedly is saying, “It’s out of context,” I emailed the gif file to my sister-in-law who lost her hearing at a very early age. She has learned to read lips with expertise. I remember an older deaf man in our area who could also read lips readily, but there was one word he could not read, namely “taxi” in which not much happens to your face when you say it except your lower jaw drops and then rises again. However, I tried whispering “taxi” to my sister-in-law and she had no trouble at all with it.

Anyway, my sister-in-law said that “It’s out of context” is EXACTLY what the woman in the gif file is saying.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Randy said:

I have to agree with you to a point… But first of all ‘prosperity’ (and health) would have to be defined. :confused:

It comes down to is someone profiting from the gospel, or is the gospel being presented to help humanity. :smiley:

If all prophesy was fulfilled by 70 A.D., when did the devil go into the lake of fire (Rev.20:10)? Have the “ages of the ages” ended already:

and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night-to the ages of the ages. (Rev.20:10, YLT)

Do you disagree with the article above that there is “therefore no present need for conversion”? Your statement that there “there may be some form of recompense” post mortem seems to be at odds with that.

I’m not Davo or a FP but i bet the Devil was cast into the LOF at the 70AD event. To me it seems clear Satan is quite active and not in the LOF now.

Why do you think the Devil was cast into the LOF in 70 A.D.?

If he’s active & not in the LOF now, when did he get out of the LOF?

Why do you think the Devil was cast into the LOF in 70 A.D.?

If he’s active & not in the LOF now, when did he get out of the LOF?

I don’t but i think the FP belief is that the LOF is symbolic of 70AD. Personally i think he is as active as ever and the god of world’s fastest growing religion.

Given that Origen has moved my quote above from this thread to here I’ve decided to move my response to a more appropriate thread over HERE so this thread keeps closer to its theme.

Good idea.

In the early church, according to Church Father Origen - very many - Christians did not believe in free will:

“7. But, seeing there are found in the sacred Scriptures themselves certain expressions occurring in such a connection, that the opposite of this may appear capable of being understood from them, let us bring them forth before us, and, discussing them according to the rule of piety, let us furnish an explanation of them, in order that from those few passages which we now expound, the solution of those others which resemble them, and by which any power over the will seems to be excluded, may become clear.”

“Those expressions, accordingly, make an impression on very many, which are used by God in speaking of Pharaoh, as when He frequently says, I will harden Pharaoh’s heart. For if he is hardened by God, and commits sin in consequence of being so hardened, the cause of his sin is not himself. And if so, it will appear that Pharaoh does not possess freedom of will; and it will be maintained, as a consequence, that, agreeably to this illustration, neither do others who perish owe the cause of their destruction to the freedom of their own will.”

“That expression, also, in Ezekiel, when he says, I will take away their stony hearts, and will give them hearts of flesh, that they may walk in My precepts, and keep My ways, may impress some, inasmuch as it seems to be a gift of God, either to walk in His ways or to keep His precepts, if He take away that stony heart which is an obstacle to the keeping of His commandments, and bestow and implant a better and more impressible heart, which is called now a heart of flesh.”

“Consider also the nature of the answer given in the Gospel by our Lord and Saviour to those who inquired of Him why He spoke to the multitude in parables. His words are: That seeing they may not see; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest they should be converted, and their sins be forgiven them. The words, moreover, used by the Apostle Paul, that it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy; in another passage also, that to will and to do are of God: and again, elsewhere,”

“Therefore has He mercy upon whom He will, and whom He will He hardens. You will say then unto me, Why does He yet find fault? For who shall resist His will? O man, who are you that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him who has formed it, Why have you made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another to dishonour? — these and similar declarations seem to have no small influence in preventing very many from believing that every one is to be considered as having freedom over his own will, and in making it appear to be a consequence of the will of God whether a man is either saved or lost.”

newadvent.org/fathers/04123.htm