The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Emotions

There is a kind of happiness and wonder that makes you serious. It is too good to waste on jokes. - C.S. Lewis

Hi MM- nicely done good sir. I think you excellently laid out the points of Barclay and they truly hit to the direct impact Jesus was making to our essence at the Sermon on the Mount. I think something to be careful of is to avoid a legalistic rendering and allow ourselves room to grow a we mature into self-controlled, Spirit led servants of God

Thanks for the reply to the pm very cool :sunglasses:

But then we miss out on what the Holy Fools’ tradition in Christianity teaches us.

Sholom Aleichem

William Shakespeare

William Shakespeare

Theodore Isaac Rubin

Bruce Lee

Sorry Randy but I’m not a fool. I’m happy and filled with joy. It’s a holy joy. I don’t make fun of the Holy passion or the holy blood of Christ.

the idea of emotions and self control…

As a father, and a husband, and as someone who at one time managed dozens of workers… The Idea of what the bible calls sobriety (self control) is paramount to being an overcomer in this world.

We are vessels to be used by our MASTER. He gave us anger, sorrow, excitement, love, etc and through our submission to Him we learn. We learn.

Hard lessons some times.

But we serve a merciful King.

Well, I’ve struggled with emotional problems my whole life. But I can say that I am at peace today. Anger is deadly for me. I don’t laugh at the holy blood and passion of Christ. Paul said He was sorrowful yet always rejoicing in His sufferings.

Hi Michael,

I would say for me, and not in any way speaking for the folks on this forum, that my understanding of Christ’s passion should be the ultimate focus of our relationship with Christ.

You and I are both talking about an event which changed our lives. So we do what we can to tell others about this event… In the way God would equip us to do.

He will allow us to do what we need to do in our own time.

Love will win.

Chad

Hi Michael:
It is because of the passion of Christ, that the Holy Fools’ tradition in Christianity lives. But they make fun of the world and of themselves.

And if you are referring to the life of Brian , it’s NOT necessarily making fun of the passion of Christ. It’s an historical comedy piece and Roman crucifixion was the common means of death (unless you fought other gladiators or lions, in the arena). In a similar vein, the Harry Potter series is literature and doesn’t glorify witchcraft, as some fundamentalists would claim.

Hey Maintenance,

I agree love will win. Seeing that God is love then His love must be coupled with hatred towards anybody that tries to harm the objects of His love. God loves His children and He is going to protect them from their enemies who blaspheme and try to attack them. We see this all the time. The love a woman has for her husband and children should be different in degree and extent then she has for someone else’s husband and children. For God to protect His family by destroying evil He is showing His tender love to His children. There is no split brain or schizophrenia going on here. To be a disciple of Christ one must put Him above all else.

We are to love Christ above all else.

Hey Randy,

Thanks for clarifying. If that works for you that’s great. I don’t like to make fun of people though. I’ve never seen Harry Potter. So I don’t know. I like to laugh. But I try to not fill my head with unclean things.

Yes, Michael. The Holy Fools’ tradition in Christianity is a valid historical tradition, having its roots in the Russian Orthodox Church. But you find the fool in other traditions. Like the Heyoka in the Lakota tradition. The biggest problem is avoiding folks like Mr. T. :laughing:

youtube.com/watch?v=dISKvZetkQI

P.S. If you are a fool or the curious sort, click this YouTube video link - but don’t say I didn’t warn you!

Hey Michael- Christ definitely is to be our ultimate top prority above all else. I think He realized this is a process we seek to do all through life. I agree about His protecting His family as you said, but Jesus is very specific about loving our enemies, forgiving them. I see when He speaks about this He is addressing difficult emotions for us as humans to handle but He wants us to lean on the Spirit. I think scripture leaves a lot of ambiguity dealing with emotions. The Spirit wants to fill us with positive emotions but we will struggle with negative ones because of our humanness. I think growing in maturity is the goal. Like you mentioned, Sounds like the emotional struggles you said you went through in the past are not the same as they were. We are always in process :slight_smile:

Hey Robert,

I agree we are to love our enemies.

Vengeance belongs to God. When I let Go and trust God I’m free to love. This is faith working itself out through love. In this way I am loving the way Jesus did:

I can assure you I’m doing just fine.

Hi Michael- going back to your first comment on here. How do any of us know for certain we have the right God?? it depends on how you mean it right?? What I mean by this is that emotions are different from logic and reason. Do we know the Spirit is leading us because we match our emotions we experience with the Bible?? The 2 greatest commandments are to love God amd love our neighbors as ourselves. These were given way before any law or before becoming believers in Christ filled with the Spirit. Do you see a special difference between love then and love after Jesus came?? I have often wondered why Jesus told his disciples and now a new commandment i give to you that you love one another Why did He call that new?? I see in both the Bible and history ma ny people experienced bouts of depression, as well as other negative emotions. God is there all through it but i wonder His purpose in allowing such to take place and last for a long time and so often in life. Appreciate all the comments , thanks everyone for contributing to this thread :slight_smile:

You are loving the way Jesus did, but not the way His vengeful God does, eh?

Actually, Paul did not write, “It is written, Vengeance is mine’…” but rather “Justice is mine.” The Greek word means “justice”, to do what is best for all parties. So Jesus does love the way His loving God does, a love that sometimes involves severe correction, but He will not cause any more discomfort than is absolutely necessary in order to bring about repentance. God will do His best for every individual.

Jesus is another exactly like His Father. He is the exact stamp of the Father’s essence (Heb 1:3). If you know the character of Jesus, then you know the character of the Father. Jesus depicted Him as One who is kind to both ungrateful people and evil people (Luke 6:35).

Paul’s quote is from Deuteronomy 32. The Septuagint, from which the writers of the New Testament quoted, reads:

Hey Robert,

I agree we are to love our neighbor as ourself. Our neighbor isn’t our enemy though. We are to love God above all else. There are distinctions in how we should love. The Bible tells us this:

However, Jesus taught his disciples to love their enemies also.

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (Matt 5:43-46 NASB)

These words seem to suggest that God does NOT make any distinctions in love.

Jesus also said that we should love our enemies, and thus show ourselves to truly be sons of God, for He is kind to ungrateful people and to evil people.

But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. (Luke 6:35 ESV)

Hi Paidion- As you seem to have a pretty decent grasp of Hebrew and Greek, can you show if all the meanings of love in NT are interchangeable to a degree?? Or is agape always in reference to Gods special type of love??? Also, I think I asked this before somewhere, why do you think Jesus told His disciples, * a new commandment I give to you, that you love one another* How was it new considering the 2md greatest commandment given was to love our neighbors as ourselves??

Hey Paidion

I agree we are to love our enemies. Just not in the same way. I try to stay away from filthy people. I find that I’m more happy around good people. When Jesus hung out with sinners it was to bring healing and council to them. I figure if someone wants help they will seek it out.

I have studied Greek for several years, but have not studied Hebrew at all. Concerning the Old Testament, I rely a lot on the Septuagint, which was a translation in around 300 B.C. from one form of Hebrew (the form found in Cave 5 at Qumran), and was used by the writers of the New Testament when quoting from the Hebrew scriptures. If I need to get the meaning of Hebrew words, I look them up in my “Online Bible” (an excellent Bible program) and check out the meanings in Hebrew dictionaries.

Concerning the Greek word ἀγαπη (agapā), it does include God’s love, but I think it includes anyone’s love, if by “love” we understand that action that serves others even to the extent of self-sacrifice. Jesus said, "Greater love (ἀγαπη) has no one than this, that one lays down his life for his friends. (John 15:13).

No, I don’t think this is a “special” kind of love. All genuine love is self-giving to serve others. Anything other that this should not be called “love.”
Genuine love is not an emotion; it is action. However, it may be accompanied by emotions.

There is another Greek word in the New Testament which is often translated as “love” and this one IS an emotion. The verb “φιλεω” (phileō) means “like” or “am fond of”. The noun form “φιλος” is usually translated as “friend.”

I have wondered about this also. The apostle John records that Jesus said these words in the following context:

*So, when he had gone out, Jesus said, "Now the Son of Man is glorified, and God is glorified in Him. If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and glorify Him immediately. Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you, “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:31-35)
*

I think the way in which this was a NEW commandment was that the commandment to love the other people of God was never given in the law of Moses. So it was NEW. I looked up all 290 forms of “love” in the Old Testament and was unable to find such a command. There were many command to love Yahweh, but none to love the people of God.

However the John who wrote 2John (an elder or overseer in the church, and probably not the apostle) wrote:

And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. (2 John 1:5)

This John was saying “not a new commandment” in the sense that it was an apostolic command that they had received from the beginning of the establishment of the Assembly (or “Church” as it was called centuries later). He is not thinking of “new commandment” relative to the Mosaic law as John the apostle was in the first quote. He was thinking of it not being new with respect to the Christian faith from its inception,.