The Evangelical Universalist Forum

A Day In The Life

Let’s start with alarm clock going off. You get out of bed, take care of all your personal hygiene, eat breakfast then go off to work or whatever it is you do. You interact with people in person,on the phone, via emails. You come across people of all backgrounds, beliefs,attitudes,actions etc. Your mind is filled with a myroad of thoughts which zoom through your consciousness and even in your unconscious. You feel a multiplicity of emotions. You perform various actions, as well as inaction and you wonder about all you did or didnt do and whether you could have done better or not. You have a neverending debate within your mind about almost anything and everything, all while carrying out the activities of living life. Fianlly you go to sleep mind still filled with endless stuff.

My point in this little scenario is that we all, no matter where we are from or our socioeconomic staus,as well as our educational level and such. We pretty much have a very similar inner world Within Christianity there are untold claims to having the truth and how we live out that truth With all this why is there so much dogmatism about being right?? Since Jesus declared Himself the Way Truth and the Life does He leave it openended for how we all understand what He meant?? Is faith always remaining in a state of uncertainty yet always persisting??

Sorry if this is a lil convoluted. Just a bit of stuff roaming in my head and wanted to get whatever response anyone has to offer Thanks :slight_smile:

Since Jesus declared Himself the Way Truth and the Life does He leave it openended for how we all understand what He meant?? Is faith always remaining in a state of uncertainty yet always persisting??

Yes good post. It is ironic that “the truth” leaves us with so many unclear truths. That’s why we debate various “truths” which we often see differently. Maybe God meant for us to keep searching?

I really like what steve said here. Ever since the first humans, whoever they were and whenever that was, were created the search for truth began. God leaves a LOT of ambiguity and mystery doesn’'t He?? What was the interaction between Himself and His creation like??? Why did He make only the 2 different trees??? Why not a tree of absolute truth?? All throughout the Bible, especially in the NT most of what we get are the highlights, doctrine. We get snippets here and there of daily life and how it went. I wish Paul, Peter, James and John had kept daily diaries to record ALL their thoughts and life experiences. How much were they like us where any number of thoughts,feelings,beliefs etc swirl within us all the time??? Just some meanderings to ponder :slight_smile: :question:

Hi Robert.

In the mid west tonight and VERY windy!!

I appreciate your thread and have contemplated on these things from time to time, and I guess that from my perspective one of the issues as a consequence of the fall was man always wanting to be right or at least to figure it all out.

We work and study and slave to figure out what God is, what Jesus represents, what is or is not in store fore us and you are right,

"Within Christianity there are untold claims to having the truth and how we live out that truth With all this why is there so much dogmatism about being right?? "

As Christians we are called to be special, and I think that the scripture we have is sufficient to do the work at hand. But I also think we need to have a humble spirit, which I believe is front and center in the Gospels and Letters of the NT.

This is sometimes hard, as our love for others combined with our current revelation sometimes spurs us to… or into a sort of judgment/condemnation. But obviously out of love.

Jesus told us what he thought. That is simple until you take what he says and compare it to the OT books. How does that work?

(see some of Bob Wilsons’ posts)

We are at a time that we Know Christ! (importanat)

The Holy Spirit is at work

(also important)

If we follow what He says, we can do no wrong, Aye?

Hey MM- I spent 2 years in the Midwest brrrrrrrrrrrrrr during fall and winter I wonder about your very last statement. Can we truly do no wrong if we do what Jesus tells us?? I agree with the gist of your comment, but i think we will always have some limitations since we are mere flesh. I have been talking to a friend alot lately about love and intuitive knowing. I think Love is Gods greatest/highest/supreme attribute. Some will say sovereignty,some holiness,some justice. I think Love trumps them all, and i think UR reflects the reality of that. What is it in us that leads us to sin?? Why, if they had a love relationship with God where all was hunky-dory did they consider not trusting Him and rebelling against Him?? In order for us to exist did the capacity to sin HAVE to be there??? I know this goes back to we are not robots ultimately. Love just seems to me, by its very nature restorative and redemptive, especially from a God who IS Love. I saw the thread where Paidion and Davo went back and forth about forgiveness without repenting. Do any of us actually repent in any complete way?? Do we not all commit certain actions over and over, as wel las thoughts, which we KNOW are sin, yet we cannot help ourselves?? Sounds a lil like Paul in Romans eh?? Thinking out loud here but more and more seems like Christ did exactly what UR trusts He did and reconciles ALL of us, even if we do not realize or want it for whatever reason. God somehow by His love and grace melts us so even with our freewill we end up with Him, especially since there is no place we can go and escape Him, not even sheol/hades/gehenna whatever. Amazing!!! :smiley: :slight_smile: :wink: :laughing: :sunglasses:

Hope i responded to a bit of what you said MM try to keep warm there buddy

Hey MM- I spent 2 years in the Midwest brrrrrrrrrrrrrr during fall and winter I wonder about your very last statement. Can we truly do no wrong if we do what Jesus tells us?? I agree with the gist of your comment, but i think we will always have some limitations since we are mere flesh. I have been talking to a friend alot lately about love and intuitive knowing. I think Love is Gods greatest/highest/supreme attribute. Some will say sovereignty,some holiness,some justice. I think Love trumps them all, and i think UR reflects the reality of that. What is it in us that leads us to sin?? Why, if they had a love relationship with God where all was hunky-dory did they consider not trusting Him and rebelling against Him?? In order for us to exist did the capacity to sin HAVE to be there??? I know this goes back to we are not robots ultimately. Love just seems to me, by its very nature restorative and redemptive, especially from a God who IS Love. I saw the thread where Paidion and Davo went back and forth about forgiveness without repenting. Do any of us actually repent in any complete way?? Do we not all commit certain actions over and over, as wel las thoughts, which we KNOW are sin, yet we cannot help ourselves?? Sounds a lil like Paul in Romans eh?? Thinking out loud here but more and more seems like Christ did exactly what UR trusts He did and reconciles ALL of us, even if we do not realize or want it for whatever reason. God somehow by His love and grace melts us so even with our freewill we end up with Him, especially since there is no place we can go and escape Him, not even sheol/hades/gehenna whatever. Amazing!!! :smiley: :slight_smile: :wink: :laughing: :sunglasses:

Hope i responded to a bit of what you said MM try to keep warm there buddy

Hi Robert,

You asked do we ever repent in a complete way? probably not. But don’t you think you are getting closer to who God wants you to be every day?

I find myself chipping away at myself. I am a type ‘A’ person and I have had to really work on changing that part of me that I felt was not in line with what Christ calls me to be.

I am progressing and yet every stone I get rid of there seems to be another under it. In my own case, I am reconciled to the fact that it will be a life journey, so I have chosen to meet the challenge with joy as opposed to disgust, which would be easy to do.

Besides, It builds a testimony to encourage others.

Not sure if this is on point but it’s my 2 pennies worth.

The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil causes us to value being right over being alive(tree of life).

“The words of the wise are a tree of life”.

I think thats a scripture lol

“By wisdom a house is built by understanding it is established, with knowledge the rooms arefilled with all kinds of treasure”

pretty sure that a proverb somewhere

Knowledge puffs up, love builds up (because love is wise and understanding)

The way we hold our knowledge often determines its value.

Hi MM- I am with you 100% I think your analogy of chipping away is right on. God is the sculptor and we are the sculpture. The process is lifelong and may be veryyyyyyyyyyyyyy slow often as well as quick. A lot of what I was sharing was trying to be devils advocate as well as just wonder about the mysteries of it all. I think you and Eaglesway make excellent points about having love be the ground from which all else springs forth. I focused on the point about repentance because it is a major theme in scripture and has a lot of emphasis upon it for us. Looking at Paul though, he says in Romans that he continually does what he doesnt want to do and doesnt do what he wants to do, or that he knows is the right thing to do or not do. He ultimately falls back upon Jesus as his only hope. For any who reject or do not choose Jesus, He still covers them and reconciles them which is UR right?? I wanted more thoughts from everyone on how we can see, as believers, we fail to live as Jesus calls us too over and over again and again and rest on His love and grace. Is that not the case even for those who fail to realize it too??? I am trying to work out, as a friend once said to me, some names are said to not be in the book of life, some are said to not inherit the kingdom of God. In UR how is this determined?? Just phrasing it in a different way as i know this is a central tenet on many threads here i am sure :slight_smile:

I think repentence is very important. The transition from selfishness to love involves repentence on an ongoing basis as we grow, as the sanctification of the Spirit goes deeper and deeper. But the result of brokeness, in the biblical sense of a broken and a contrite heart, is humility, gentleness, kindness- all those fruits of the Spirit which are all elements and aspects of love. It is through the Lordship of Jesus that love is revealed in its purest form through those who are “new creatures in Christ”. If one is not walking in love, Jesus is not their Lord.

“Lord, Lord, Didnt we do a lot of great stuff in your name?”

Jesus makes it plain that the only works that please Him spring from love.

In 1 Cor 3:15-17 paul talks about woood, hay, stubble vs gold silver precious stone. he says those who build with junk will see their works burned up, bu their spirit will be saved in the Day, but so as through fire.

For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15** If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.**

In 1 Corinthians 5:5 Paul says he intends…“To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,** that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”**

Daniel 7:10 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

The fire will test each mans work, the fire in His eyes, the light strreaming from His face will penetrate every dark place, because the light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot over come it.

In these verses we see the principle of being saved through disciplin/correction, purging, even judgment. Just as Paul spoke concerning Israel…

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as in times past you have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:** Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God has bound all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all…**

In Romans 8 Paul says the creation was subjected to futility- not of its own volition but by the will of the One who subjected it in hope that the creation will be set free into the glorious liberty of the sons of God(which is agape love)…yet much of this comes through breaking and corrections of various intensities depending on the individual(God is not mocked, what man sows so shall he also reap)- and I think, in this world and the world to come as well.

In fact starting in Romans 1, where Paul speaks of the creation and the law that is written on every heart… all the way thru to Romans 16, Paul unfolds this principle over and over as being the awesome unfolding mystery of the salvation of all.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and** the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery,** which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

This is the same “revelation of the mystery” he wrote about in Ephesians 1:9-11

In all wisdom and insight** He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention** which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up(gathering together into one- kjv) of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

Hey Robert,

I haven’t had a mired of emotions running through me lately when I get up from bed in the morning. I’m a caregiver for an 85 year old man so I guess that helps me. He’s a really tender hearted person and we never fight or argue about anything. When we first met he was Catholic and I was Reformed. I’m no longer strictly Reformed because I think the Catholic church has a lot of good people in it. The man that I take care of is one of them. He donated 11 million dollars for the education of nurses at a hospital here in Ft. Worth. But we don’t argue about doctrine. So, I like your point about Jesus being the truth. Really it’s about Christ a person who is living truth. I read a book one time by Ravi Zacharias where he talks about what gives life meaning. Life is primarily about relationships. What gives life meaning for me is love, gratitude, hope, love, truth. So, what brings life meaning would be a personal relationship with Christ. He is all these things. There is a time and season for everything. As it tells us in Eclesiastes:

There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:

2
a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,

3
a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

4
a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,

5
a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,

6
a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,

7
a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,

8
a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

Hey Eaglesway- Thanks for expounding upon the value of repentance. I fully agree it is something ongoing through life and God leads us to it via our experiences. Sometimes He turns up the heat but always and only to be redemptive and restorative. Great listing of verses you shared as well.

Hey Michael- That man is truly gracious and a servant, seeing what he did with his money. You display Gods love so richlky as you treat him and show love, not arguing about doctrine. I was thinking last night as i contemplate how to share my belief in UR at my church and not have walls instantly go up. Why would God who is complete in everyway because He IS God… want or need a state of eternal conscious torment for any of His creation, especially knowing He knew the capacity for their capacity to disobey and not believe in order to be free?? He wants free choice of love from His creation right?? How can anyone possibly make a freechoice of love while having the fate of hell dangling overhead??? Those who insist on hell do so usually because they say God must punish sin in order to be just holy and righteous. If THIS is how God MUST be, why on earth would He allow Jesus to suffer and die FOR all whom He will end up punishing and judging??? Would any of us do that to a child or even a stranger??? I dare say HELL NO :laughing: :unamused: :smiling_imp: So how can God who is PURE LOVE do something we mere humand would never do??

Sorry for going off on a tangent just wanting to get through to my friends about UR so badly. Thanks for all responses love reading everything anyone shares on here!!

Hi Robert,

You said* " I was thinking last night as i contemplate how to share my belief in UR at my church and not have walls instantly go up." *

I would recommend going slow as to not alienate or do harm. But follow where God wants you to go.

From the first time I heard someone speak on UR, (this person did a series and it was on cassette - so that tells you how long ago it was) it took me twenty years to fully embrace and accept it. Though I look back and can see I have flirted with the doctrine and have slowly been moving towards it the whole time… Never dismissing it but not embracing it wholly either. And I must say that it was peer pressure plain and simple that kept me from following that truth all those years.

When I decided that I decided, I was, at the time, leading a bible study in our small church. I went to talk to the pastor with the intention of resigning as bible study leader, as my new views and beliefs were slowly finding their way into our discussions at bible study.

We talked for a while and I stated my case, (and as our church is non denominational, and we really do focus on love), he had to admit that I was on to something… though I don’t think he is convinced about my version of what a hell is, (he comes from a southern Baptist background) but I believe he is moving that way himself.

He said that he would like me to continue leading bible study but would understand what ever I decided.

I took a few weeks off and pondered and prayed and figured “hey, it took me twenty years to fully embrace this theology… I don’t need to change anyone over night.”

I have since continued leading the study group. And we run into a few snags… Like when I told them the first time that I don’t believe in the devil as most of them do. Some where quite taken aback :smiley: But we have gone ahead. We’ve even had chance to discuss the wrath of God and how it can be disciplinary as opposed to angry retribution.

I try to focus on God’s love and not on changing anyone. I’ll leave that to Him.

Hope this helps in some small way.

Hi MM- It helps in a huge way- as donald trump might say- :laughing: I am not trying to convert anyone or change them, just wanting to provide a window where they can see it fits in as is not heresy. I especially like how you said the process was long in the making, which is so true of God at work I think. He is not a fast food God :smiley: :sunglasses:

Something else I wanted to ask all of your thoughts on. I spoike about the charleston shooting on my facebook page and a friend said it never happened and was a hoax designed to give impetus to taking away our guns in USA. There are relatives of some of th people killed who have been giving interviews saying they forgave the shooter even though he didnt repent. My friend says forgiveness is not possible apart from repentance and that this is true of God so how could we possibly be expected to do it??? What do you think???

This is my friends post so you can get the full point

A few family members of some of the people killed in the Charleston shooting are speaking out to share a message of forgiveness. They bravely epitomize what love can do, no matter how long it takes or how hard it is. They are NOT letting the shooter off scot-free. They ARE letting go of needing to punish him in their hearts and souls. I hope as many places as possible share their message and it spreads like wildfire.
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Tyna Stopnik Degenhardt
Tyna Stopnik Degenhardt Well said Bob
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Tim Titrud
Tim Titrud Bob
This type of forgiveness does not make any sense at all. One should not forgive if there is not repentance from the one that has done the harm. God does not forgive without repentance. Why should we do what even God does not do? In addition this type of forgiveness will result in a lack of justice.
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Tim Titrud
Tim Titrud implantedword.com/forgivenes … repentance

Forgiveness Without Repentance? — ImplantedWord
IMPLANTEDWORD.COM

If you can, check out the article he linked and share what you thyink Thanks All!!!

Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.