I know that the doctrine is definitely biblical, and a superior hope than say annihilation or Eternal damnation. Plus, even most honest theologians who are not necessarily Universalists, but are not hardcore infernalists even admit that there are bible verses of the kind, and that it was believed by many Church fathers.

So my issue is that I am struggling with idolizing the outcome, and feel very strongly attached to the doctrine. So, Eternal Damnation, and anything that resembles the doctrine gets me easily fired up. Like harsh punishments, controlling people through fear, torture or violence, legalistic duty based morality, intolerance, bigotry, retribution, or acceptance of evil/non-resistance. Along with hating any contradicting doctrines, in particular Calvinism. Even though I dont really like arminianism too much either. And surprisingly, I am able to tolerate annihilationism, and those with no definite soteirology,

I understand theologically speaking that God is the source of our worship. But it is hard to detach from idolizing the doctrine, considering that the doctrine has given me peace of mind, patience, a greater optimism, and a desire for spiritual growth. Plus, I am still stuck on very carnal images of God, as a kind of invisible superhuman, who operates similar to the pagan Gods. Or an impersonal spirit of certain values, like making Love, Joy and Peace God, instead of an actual person.

In some things I would say it is a good thing to be fired up in the face of injustice and cruelty, where such motivation comes from love and compassion though I when you do remember to see the persons in the other side, it is injustice your fight against not the person, them you wish to save, it is an easy slip to fall into. And the same I would say in relation to some of the views that include ECT or forms of Calvanism that to my my mind insult God horribly and say He requires sin to be completely God and is lacking without it His attributes not all expressed, and love is not His essential nature and the self-giving and self-emptying nature of the relationship and delight between the Persons of the Trinity, that is blasphemous to me and makes death and a particular 16th century idea of sovereignty and glory (the Renaissance Prince ideal) really god in this system (since in their system God requires, needs and must obey both). So I don’t think it is wrong to find such claims offensive and horrific, they are, and they make God out to be worse than the most evil person you could imagine (or than the Accuser), but masks it in sophistry and statements the attacking anyone questioning this and objecting with statements of ‘who are you to question God’ ripping a verse of Paul out of context, so so shutting down any questioning of the system as blasphemy and heresy, locking any challenge down. When truly followed (which thankfully most Reformed don’t have this as their true belief, in their lives they defy and deny their intellectual assertions) it is truly destructive. So it is not wrong when confronted with something so wrong to feel outraged at it, and speak out against this, but again remember the people involved and that many within are trying to follow God faithfully and so love should be central to our interaction and response.

As to seeing God as just a being alongside others, something that is just in addition to others such as pagan gods is a common mistake in practice among many Christians (and almost all non-Christians when they think or talk it) is some ‘Sky-Father’ (so the common attack by secularist apologists that as Christians have reduced many gods to one they have just disbelieved in the last and show a complete lack of understanding of the what is meant by God over a god, a completely different category of meaning altogether) rather than God, but some demiurge (which is also the problem with intelligent design and creation arguments or with arguments relating to God’s foreknowing being related to the nature of time, as if God were a just one being in time like we are and bound by rather Creator constantly and always, including time, and no more bound in it than anything else, it’s existence is found in, depends on and is contingent in Him).

Both this and to instinct to see God as impersonal such as love or the universe come from the same error, as it both denies God is Being and is lacking and less than us in some ways and is just a thing alongside other things rather than the Reality Himself, the source and very possibility of anything existing at all, totally transcendent of all created things yet by that nature utterly imminent to all things, not separated from them at all, actualizing their own existence and actions and being, the only reason they exist at all. But all of us struggle in relating to God with these images, and He us and does use them to communicate to us, and supremely does so in the self -emptying love of the Incarnation of Christ and by the Spirit through the Church in action. Recognizing the issues are good as that way you won’t be drawn by the errors of those paths to much but otherwise I would be untroubled by it to much and leave your mind be and at peace and focus on relating to the Lord in act, worship, in love to others and those in need, through sacramental interaction and action and love of Christ in others, of relating as a person to the Other. We understand and grow far more by relation and action than trying to pin all matters down in our mind, but rather prayerful interaction and reflection and meditation and love.

If you make a habit or discipline out of being fair to your opponents and granting them everything possible, including ethically – or are even consistently trying to do so because you understand that’s right – then, at least by proportion, you won’t be idolizing a doctrine of universalism, Joe.

It helps me a lot to remember that “I could be wrong”, and that even “if” I am correct now in my theology I was wrong for almors 50 years. Also, believing in UR has empowered me to love everyone as my brother. And I don’t get upset or angry at my brother for believing differently than I do. And if UR is correct then love is the most powerful of all forces. It is love that never fails, not anger or hate. I gladly share what I believe and why I believe it; but it doesn’t bother me that others don’t see things the way I do.

I don’t get upset or angry either, Sherman, but other people don’t feel that way at all. Some of them find it highly offensive that I believe the way I do and they somehow can’t make me see reason. But then YOU have experienced that to a much greater degree than I have, so who am I talking to?

Becoming a committed UR believer has really made a big change in how I treat other people. As a new Christian, I used to partition people into two groups, the saved and unsaved, which of course left me in the position of judge, and I would treat the two groups differently, often taking upon my self attempting to rescue the unsaved from eternal damnation.

Now I believe I treat all people more equally, as they all will be in eternity so is much easier to believe that God loves them just as much as He loves me.

So, to me, that is a practical proof of the truth of UR. I think friends and family would testify that I am a more loving person since becoming a committed UR believer, and more love equals more of God in me.

I don’t think it is possible to idolize something that is God. God is better than we can possibly think. UR is our best conception of God and His Love.

Technically sin is just missing the mark. So it seems that many of these Calvinistic or ET teachings are really just a form of reductionism. As on both attempts, it places a finite understanding on God, Humanity and reality itself. Over the summer, I found the ontological argument, that showed me an epistemology that centers on the whole nature of being itself, of knowing of the existence of something beyond what we can grasp

That sounds good, but I would argue beyond just an epistemology of being, and for one of love, to love as basis of knowing and being known, of God, by God and of others and by others, and of everything in creation, that love as manifested in Christ, is the basis of our approach to relating to and understanding anything at all, that of the the Messiah Jesus and the kenotic self-giving and self-empty love of God manifested in Him should be our fundamental hypothesis (our starting point), and that same love should be our epistemology, and be the we truly know, understand and relate to anything at all, that to understand person or being and of Being Himself is through love.

Yep, many people do get upset when someone disagrees with their beliefs. I think a lot of that anger comes out of insecurity and fear; they are insecure in their beliefs and in their relationship with God. And much of that insecurity is founded in believing in Hell, believing that either Jesus fails to save some (Arminianism) or Jesus chooses to not save some (Calvinism). At least, that’s what I’ve experienced.

Over the last few years I’ve learned to share my faith in Jesus being “Savior of All” by sharing it from that positive perspective first and formost, highlighting the passages that affirm He is savior of All. I note that I’ve come to believe: that Jesus really is “Savior of All” as scripture says; that one day truly every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord; that God was in Jesus reconciling All of Creation to himself, everything in heaven, and earth, and even under the earth as scripture says, that the sacrifice of Jesus is greater than the sin of Adam because it not only overcomes the effect of the sin of Adam (plunging us All into darkness), but it even overcomes all our many sins (the results of being in darkness) by bringing us all into light and life!

I share how I’ve come to really believe these precious promises in scripture, that God not only saved everyone, but He even saves me! Wow, now that’s too cool!

It’s only after this positive perspective that I share that I’ve come to not believe in Hell because it was mistranslated into scripture.

Ive just thought about it, with the infernalists, Fundamentalists, and Calvinists, it is not so much what they affirm that is the problem, but what they deny. Like the Calvinists affirm Gods sovereignty, but limit his willingness to save all people. Or how the Fundamentalists doctrines affirm mans sinfulness, judgment, and damnation, but deny the ontological goodness of humanity, the redemptive nature of judgment, and Universal Salvation.

Similar how the other world religions are more problematic in what they deny than what they affirm. Like the Jews and Muslims affirm belief in a personal God, yet deny that Jesus is the son of God, and the third person of the Trinity become man. Or how Buddhists affirm that our hope is not grounded in earthly or materialistic things, but denies the reality of matter, and something to be overcome.

I know its hard to admit, when on the surface, our differences seem so at odds, Especially when the denials are so ugly. Just look how ugly Judgment would be without the hope of Salvation. Or how ugly Sinful nature would be without the ontological goodness of humanity. If we only looked at the nature of sin, we could not see the inherent dignity, or the unmarred tendencies towards good.

I’m served a steady diet of “I could be wrong” because I have been wrong before.

I am tremendously grateful the Lord was gracious enough to clue me in to the beautiful hope and overwhelming glory of the gospel of the restoration of all things. What hellism has done to the truth is no small injustice, and I can get incensed at times as well when folks insist upon it, or that I am going to hell for insisting agaisnt it.

I say, that’s alrite man, Paul got incensed occasionally and so did Jesus- when faced with the obstinacy of men in their lazy arrogant assurance about their error.

As far as idolizing the doctrine… I would say that the glory of Christ crucified (If I be lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me) is sufficient to keep my heart more in love with Him than the truth about Him, and He seems to find sufficient ways in my daily life to keep me humble

So my issue is that I am struggling with idolizing the outcome, and feel very strongly attached to the doctrine

I try to keep things simple which is that the bible clearly allows for salvation after physical death so no need to have to believe in any doctrine including CU as long as everyone has a just and fair opportunity.