How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby davo » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:52 pm

DaveB wrote:What would I do if a Muslim family moved next door? First thing I'd do - is watch my house value overnight, lose about $50,000.00. Not the Muslim's fault - it's the scare that people have of the Muslims.

Just an observation Dave… this type of rhetoric true or otherwise probably just adds to stereotypes. :?

DaveB wrote:But surely you see what is happening in Europe and other places? It always starts small, but it does not end that way.

Well yeah, but this ALL comes back to cause and effect… the lies of 911 Howard, Blair and Bush fabricated to further their own political ends in terms of the fear-mongering and manipulation they peddle to justify the military action taken ultimately RESULTED IN this flood of people out of their homelands to borders beyond their own — hence the Muslim migration; history show war does that.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:26 pm

Davo, 'true or otherwise' is a snide remark, you're better than that. You do NOT know southern Oregon; $50k was being conservative.

What was your obfuscation? Oh yeah, the off-putting "Well, yeah but..." Very helpful. Did not address the issue at all, but it gave you a chance to deflect the import (at least to me) of what I was saying.

No matter, as it does not affect you down under at all, right-o?

Does anyone here have a constructive thing to say, about how the U.S. can avoid the problems much of the world is having because of their idiotic immigration policies?
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:53 am

maintenanceman wrote:HFPZ said:
Having said that, my homeopath is agnostic. But he's married, to a Muslim wife. And they have Muslim children. And I get along with them. But I was introduced - via my homeopath.


So what does that mean? :?


If you have a close friend, in the Muslim circuit. It's easier to enter that world. :D
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:25 am

Because so many Americans still live mentally in a time when intolerance was considered the greatest evil, they have difficulty understanding that an indiscriminate tolerance can father just as many sins. -WK
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby steve7150 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:50 am

Well yeah, but this ALL comes back to cause and effect… the lies of 911 Howard, Blair and Bush fabricated to further their own political ends in terms of the fear-mongering and manipulation they peddle to justify the military action taken ultimately RESULTED IN this flood of people out of their homelands to borders beyond their own — hence the Muslim migration; history show war does that.







I always thought Bush bent over backwards to repeatedly call Islam a religion of peace and what resulted in the flood of muslim immigrants was Bashar Assad the Syrian dictator who as a muslim Shite has been trying to wipe out the Sunni majority in Syria igniting a flood of immigration into Europe. As others saw that you can get into Europe it fueled further immigration from Africa. The Europeans never learned how to secure their borders and they now will lose their cultures over a generation or two.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Paidion » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:45 pm

Dave B wrote:Does anyone here have a constructive thing to say, about how the U.S. can avoid the problems much of the world is having because of their idiotic imm1igration policies?


Dave, I don't think the rest of the world has "idiotic imm1igration policies." Many countries have compassion on the multitudes that can no longer live in their own countries because of persecution or of unjust laws that make it impossible for them to live a normal life in those countries. But it just so happens that some unscrupulous persons take advantage of these compassionate countries and immigrate to them in order to wreak havoc. Countries are morally right to take the risk of their being such unsavoury characters among the multitudes who need a decent, democratic country in which to live.

Let me give you a personal example. After the North Vietnamese (Communists) overtook South Vietnam, they persecuted educated people. Many of those people escaped in boats or ships to other countries. My own family and the families of two of my nephews, formed "The Refugee Assistance Group" and sponsored a Vietnamese man and his wife, and three sons. We arranged to buy a trailer and set it up on a part of my property (160 acres).

We picked them up in Kenora, and thought that if we took them to a Chinese restaurant, they might get food similar to what they were used to eating. But they hardly touched the food, because they thought it would be an economic hardship for us. Once I found the husband, Van (pronounced "Vaang) , in a clearing near the trailer with four stakes in the ground on which a cloth had been stretched, and on which potatoes had been cut up in the shape of French fries, and were placed on the cloth. I asked the man what he was doing. He replied, "I'm drying these French fries in the sun." I said, "Why not just put them in a frying pan with oil and cook them?" His answer: "Save electricity."

They had brought some tubes toothpaste with them. His sons held the tubes straight up and lightly moved the heads of their toothbrushes across the opening to the tubes so as not to make it last by using as little as possible.

Van, the husband had been an electro-chemical engineer in Viet Nam,and his wife had been a pharmacist. I tried to get Van a job at the paper mill in Fort Frances, but they wouldn't hire him. So he managed to get a job with a local farmer, but it was very hard on him. Because of his slight frame and structure, he came home very tired every evening.

Their religion was Confucian. I asked him how a Confucian practises his religion. He said, "We look at pictures of our ancestors, and feel thankful that they have given us birth."

When he found out that we attend a Christian church, he wanted to come. On their journey to Vietnam, the family and other families who were on the boat with them, were robbed by a crew of Thailand pirates. A second group of pirates came on board later; there was nothing left to steal, so they gave the Vietnamese people some fish. However, they were angry at being robbed,and wouldn't eat it. Later, they stopped at a large island country where they were told to get back into their boat and move on. They tried pushing it back into the water (not very hard) and said, "It seems to be stuck."

"All right!" said the officials, "We will make a border around this little area. Anyone who steps outside this border will be shot!" After they started to get hungry, they went back to the boat and took out the fish (which was then in a stage of being unfit for consumption), cooked it up and ate it.
Later, a Catholic woman and her daughter discovered them, and brought them food and reading materials. This kind act resulted in Van having a positive view of Christianity. So when he found out were were attending a Christian church, he and his family were happy to attend it, too.

Their children attended the local school and were at the top of their class.

He said that what was done in the meetings made him feel good. I managed to get a Bible for him in the Chinese language (He was able to read that fluently). "Yes," he said, "First I will read the Christian's Holy Book before I decide to become a Christian.

A day or so later, he said to me, "I have been reading the Christian Holy Book, and have a question. Whose son was Jesus anyway? Genealogy is very important to a Confucian, and so he had started to read the genealogy in Matthew 1.

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham...


Later, Van's wife was getting letters from Vancouver, in which they were urged to move out there where there would be greater opportunity. Sometimes, I heard Van and his wife arguing in Vietnamese rather frequently. She wanted to move to Vancouver; he didn't. But finally she convinced him. Then he told me, "I tried to get a job here, but I fail. We will be moving to Vancouver." I had loved the family so much, that I wept.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:12 pm

That's an excellent story, Don, thanks.
We keep coming back to this point, where I'm made to look like I have no compassion, and your side is all-loving. Ok that's a caricature of both of us, but you get my point. And it's a false dichotomy.

So you don't have any advice - noone seems to - except to point fingers at the USA and accuse of a lack of compassion. Strange - where is the compassion for those wives and kids mowed down in a movie theater, or children blown up at a concert, or raped in Muslim areas, of killed in 9/11?

Seriously - What about them? Is it more important to allow terrorists into the country - and we seem unable or unwilling to do that - than to protect our own citizens?

I agree with a compassionate stance. But we have to take care of our own as well.

What advice would you on the forum give?
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby maintenanceman » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:11 pm

DaveB wrote:That's an excellent story, Don, thanks.
We keep coming back to this point, where I'm made to look like I have no compassion, and your side is all-loving. Ok that's a caricature of both of us, but you get my point. And it's a false dichotomy.

So you don't have any advice - noone seems to - except to point fingers at the USA and accuse of a lack of compassion. Strange - where is the compassion for those wives and kids mowed down in a movie theater, or children blown up at a concert, or raped in Muslim areas, of killed in 9/11?

Seriously - What about them? Is it more important to allow terrorists into the country - and we seem unable or unwilling to do that - than to protect our own citizens?

I agree with a compassionate stance. But we have to take care of our own as well.

What advice would you on the forum give?


Well, I tend to lean more to Dave's stance, with the understanding that you need to try to have compassion without putting your loved ones or every thing you've worked for at risk of being ripped away. Don's story was fantastic, But the one thing about the story that intrigues me is that Don and company 'decided' to help this one family. They were not compelled to do so. And how did the family respond? They were so humble and grateful that they wouldn't even eat the Chinese dinner. The kids became model students and the folks lived what sounded like simple responsible lives. And I assume that the family was legal from a citizenship standpoint. NO ONE has a problem with that.

I'LL REPEAT No on has a problem with that as far as I am concerned. But Dave raises issues that are easy to sweep to the side until it arrives in your back yard so to speak. Forced or illegal entry is different than compassionate and legal citizenship.

My daughter just got married to a young man from England a few weeks back. His short term travel visa (not sure if I have all these terms right) was up and he had to go back across the pond to go back to work so he is there and she is here waiting to try to go there and for the authorities in England to decide if he can support her and if she is not a security threat. The red tape is incredible when you try to do it legally. I feel for them, not being able to be together.

I am a better safe than sorry type of guy, and my daughter seems to be being slowed down because of that mentality... So it is what it is. Just the crap of a couple of young folks falling in love living in different countries.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby steve7150 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:42 pm

I'LL REPEAT No on has a problem with that as far as I am concerned. But Dave raises issues that are easy to sweep to the side until it arrives in your back yard so to speak. Forced or illegal entry is different than compassionate and legal citizenship.








Here is a news flash, Dave is right and here are other facts which are , where Islam goes violence follows. Not most muslims but to many and the overwhelmingly important distinction is that violence and conquest is the bedrock of Islam unlike any other religion. So it's not about how many muslims are violent or non violent it's that the religion itself is cancerous. The violence and conquest built into the Quran and Hadith is open ended and unending until Allah rules the world. That is the reality.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:00 am

Worse than Vegas - and no guns.
Remember last year? No guns needed.

D. Greenburg:

If somebody really wants to kill a lot of people... they have options.

A large truck plowed into a crowd of people in the southern French of city of Nice on Thursday night, killing at least 84 people and leaving 18 in critical condition as the heavy vehicle mowed over its victims along hundreds of feet, according to police and government officials.

The scene in Nice was one of devastation, with the heavy-duty white truck stalled amid the bloodshed on the street, its windows smashed and riddled with bullets, from police gunfire.

"I saw bodies flying like bowling pins along its route. Heard noises, cries that I will never forget," he wrote.

The Muslim terrorist attack killed 86 people and wounded 458. That's a worse toll than the Vegas attack.

And it only happened last year.

But the media is eager to forget about Muslim terrorist attacks and very eager to have a "national conversation" full of "common sense solutions" for abolishing the Bill of Rights. Unlike the travel ban which was a common sense solution that most Americans support.

The gun control argument is all about how guns are an unprecedented weapon of terror. And if someone wants to kill a lot of people, he just has to use a gun.

Not really. As the Nice attack, the Manchester Arena attack, the Boston Marathon bombing and 9/11 (and Oklahoma City, for the token non-Muslim terror attack) demonstrate.

Guns are a means. As are trucks and bombs.


(emphases are mine - DB)
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:49 pm

Image

I just read the articles in today's newsletters from http://www.patheos.com/ - both Catholic and Evangelical. And many are devoted to making sense, of the Los Vegas massicure. We are talking about a person, who's a multi-millionaire. And there's much we don't know yet. IRIS, at least, I can understand. I understand their ideology. Naturally, I don't agree with it. And I'm all for the good guys - owning guns. As long as they pass, the appropriate background checks.

ISIS I understand. Zombies I understand. But I don't understand, folks like Stephen Paddock. Perhaps because not enough is known yet. Or yet released, because of the pending investigation.

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:50 pm

Well this may be a bitter pill for any of you that hold the position of 'no media bias' 'you cannot prove media bias' etc.
Project Veritas strikes again!!

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/268104/ ... seph-klein
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:06 am

DaveB wrote:Well this may be a bitter pill for any of you that hold the position of 'no media bias' 'you cannot prove media bias' etc.
Project Veritas strikes again!!

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/268104/ ... seph-klein


Is this another right wing article :?: Oh, know :!: Left wing and right wing articles, will be what leads us - to the zombie apocalypse. I'm convinced of it. :( :o :shock:

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:46 am

It's more like - what's that word again? - ah yes, FACTS. An interview with an important NYT staffer who did not know he was being filmed and recorded. TSK tsk. He spills the beans.
Maybe the beans don't matter any more? Jonathan Gruber was filmed stating that the Obama Admin believed the American people were too stupid to understand what was being done to them with the ACA - that's a Big Bean, but no hue and cry.

If you don't read this, and later on claim, like so many have, that there is no 'media' bias, I can refer back to this, at least. If the ZA has not happened. :lol:
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:49 am

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:37 am

DaveB wrote:All you mathematicians are racist!!

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/26821 ... greenfield


But I don't know any zombie, that is currently a mathematician. But they are certainly waiting, for us to give the signal - for the zombie apocalypse to begin. It's closer than we think. :o :shock:

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Paidion » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:01 pm

I am surprised that no one has yet made reference to the dramatic events which have taken place in United States in the last two days—events that expose Mr. Trump for who he really is.

Even Fox News, to which Trump supporters claim is about the only News that is not "fake" concerning Trump, has published an article entitled "Trump's seagull management style makes mess of Senate." Early in the article "seagull management" is defined as "That’s when somebody flies in, defecates on everything and then flies away."

Fox News Article
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:03 pm

Oh.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Cindy Skillman » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:31 pm

I think you'd be surprised, Don. Even Fox News has more negative than positive press coverage for President Trump. There are a significant number of clearly left-leaning anchors/co-anchors and probably an equal number of right and left-leaning consultants. There are right-wingers as well, and then there are the straight-down-the-middle news people. Thus, a negative story by Fox News about President Trump isn't actually much of an event. Just pointing this out.

Believe it or not, I spent a significant portion of the last couple days skimming this whole thread. It's almost like listening to "The Way We Were." The night of Donald Trump's surprising victory seems so long, long ago--and yet not long at all. I remember. I was a mess, so afraid that Hillary Clinton would win (as ALL the news organizations predicted). I truly believe that a Clinton victory would have sealed the end to the Republic. Donald Trump is no knight in shining armor, but I thank God every day that he was the one we sent to the white house. He started out by divesting himself of control over his vast fortune, declined the presidential salary save the obligatory $1/year required as a minimum for most contracts. So did his family members working in the White House. So, if I remember correctly, have a number of his high-level staffers who had no need of the salary.

There was the "wire-tapping" scandal. As it turns out, DJT was right. Trump Tower was indeed surveiled. Not only that, but Obama's administration surveiled a truly astonishing number of people who were in one way or another connected with DJT or his campaign. I believe there is now or soon will be an "INVESTIGATION," whatever that really means. Unmasking and leaking the identities and private conversations of US citizens (to their detriment) without the required legal permissions has occurred. This is a felony. Surprisingly it was not done by Republicans or for Republican gain. It was apparently the upstanding, virtuous, lily white Obama administration's work.

Then of course it was a constant drumbeat of RUSSIARUSSIARUSSIA. I watched it unfold. It started with unfounded allegations, was pushed forward by the infamous "dossier" that first saw the light of day at the hand of Senator John McCain. It was discredited almost instantly, with all agreeing the "information" contained within was nothing but spurious, scandalous, baseless, demonstrably false accusations. Nevertheless, this was the next step in the story being spun by the media. I'm serious--it was built on a fabric of lies that EVERYONE (individually taken) KNEW were lies. (Don't ask me for links, Qaz; this is just my recollection.) Despite all this, there it tottered and grew--a house of nearly transparent cards wavering in the breaths of air but standing. After a while it began to look like a towering fortress of "facts." I continually shook my head in wonder. "But there are no facts; there's absolutely no evidence. In fact, there's evidence AGAINST all this..." The MSM continued to tell their story, each time louder and more audacious and indeed more outrageous than the last. If you tell it enough times, people will begin to believe it. Well-known Marxist tactic, and it apparently is very popular with Democrats as well. Even President Jimmy Carter opined that the opposition of the press toward DJT was the worst he had ever witnessed. Wow! Someone forgot to give him the talking points, I guess.

While all this is going on, we have the smaller themes of Trump's inauguration crowd size story (while he quietly sends forth the pipelines long held in check by President Obama, to the great ecological AND economic advantage of the nation), Trump's "Muslim Travel Ban" which, despite his imprecise language, was neither a ban nor directed particularly at Muslims--but you've all discussed this at great length, and to be fair, no one had a problem with it when Obama decreed a very similar policy directed toward the exact same dysfunctional countries, so that potential immigrants/visitors could be properly vetted... Never mind. Activist judges usurping executive authority, the Supreme Court's interim 'ruling' in favor of the president. The ongoing saga of the not-quite-republican house and senate "republicans" and their shock at having to actually DO something beyond just being 'the party of "no"'.

The growing threat (and realization) of Islamic terror in Europe and the British Isles, the rage of the left with seas of "women" wearing "pussy hats" and screaming about what I never did figure out. They are (many of them) too young to have ever experienced an election in which they could vote and which they lost. It wasn't supposed to happen that way! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! the primal screams raged against the brass heavens.

Antifa invaded college campuses, demanding the silencing of conservative voices, attacking a young woman with tear gas because of her MAGA hat, a crippled, aged veteran in a wheel chair, another old woman (pepper spray), carrying nail-studded clubs, threatening all who weren't wearing Antifa black. They attacked Berkley--BERKLEY--their mother! I still don't understand THAT one. Of all places the most friendly toward their cause of (I suppose) anarchy. A Muslim terrorist in France kills 80-some people at a Christmas market (how insensitive of them; they had it coming, I'm sure, attending a culturally offensive event like that) with a stolen truck. Terror spreads across Europe and blows up in a concert in Manchester--attended mostly by young girls. Rapes, murders, fear... Even here in the USA, there are smaller terrorist incidents. A man attacked people with a machete in a shopping mall in Minnesota--MN! That's where we spent four months last summer--in Rochester while my husband underwent a bone marrow transplant. It seems very close to home. I now carry 100% of the time where not prohibited. So should you if it's legal to do so where you live. I'm not joking. Not to protect yourself necessarily, but certainly to protect others.

I have to say. Add in Iran and NOKO to this toxic mixture and I would certainly not want to be the president of the USA just now at this time. DJT has his hands full. I do think in the circumstances and considering he is still new to the job, he is performing admirably.

No he is not perfect. On the other hand, he merely bragged in the obnoxious and offensive way of some men when he thought he was having a private conversation. He later apologized really quite abjectly imo (has Bill ever done THAT?) and when asked directly, denied having actually DONE the thing he had bragged about to his male companion. Oh yes, he's been accused of plenty of things. That's the only one I've seen with any credibility. I've seen plenty (some mentioned above) that were obvious lies (if you were paying attention to anyone in addition to Meeka or whatever her name is, and her ilk.)

I think that Father has put this man here for "such a time as this." Instead of vilifying and hating and eagerly consuming every vile thing flung at him by those who hate him, perhaps we could (at least those of us in the USA) find it in our hearts to pray sincerely and often that God will work through him and even perhaps despite his own follies and faults, bring good through him to the people of this country (and of the world) who so badly need it. This world is in deep trouble. We don't have time for fussing and fighting. I would love to see us all remember who our True King is, and petition the Father in His name as He taught us, to send the beautiful Spirit of Holiness to heal our land (you can think of this as all one person if that works better for you--God does not mind, I am certain.)

During the last eight years (which I personally found very traumatic and frightening), I reminded myself constantly that I am not so much a citizen of this world as of the next and that Jesus is my True King. For those of you now who feel about DJT as I felt then about BHO, keep that in mind as a comfort and trust GOD, not man, to bring about a favorable result. Jesus Christ is King--nothing can touch you except for your good and by His permission. Pray.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:22 am

Cindy Skillman wrote:
During the last eight years (which I personally found very traumatic and frightening), I reminded myself constantly that I am not so much a citizen of this world as of the next and that Jesus is my True King. For those of you now who feel about DJT as I felt then about BHO, keep that in mind as a comfort and trust GOD, not man, to bring about a favorable result. Jesus Christ is King--nothing can touch you except for your good and by His permission. Pray.


You hit the nail - on the head. The left won't save you. The right won't save you. In the world of motorcycle gangs (which I have read and heard about), there is a term called hang-around. A person who "hangs around" - is not a prospect or member. But someone who "hangs around". So I consider myself a hang around - with various spiritual groups. I fully believe that Red Road or Native American spirituality (see Red Road Spirituality,, had an unwritten covenant with God - before the event of Christ. And God still speaks to them - in visions.

Well, as a hang around...I learn a lot of spiritual things - can protect us.

    The relics of saints, from the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions.
    The blessings of saints, from the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Sufi and Eastern traditions
    The Holy Eucharist - when properly preformed
    Wearing blessed objects (I have a cross blessed by the Roman Catholic church, saints from the East, and the altars - of Native American lodges I participated in.
    The ceremonies and sacred pipe prayers - of the Native Americans
    Participation in healing meditations and ceremonies (like those of Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Native American, the Bruno Groening Circle of Friends, Japanese Johrei and Sukyo Mahikari).
    The Holy Spirit
    Etc.

Like tonight, a Lakota elder is speaking - at the Theosophical Society. The lectures are free and streamed at 7 PM CST. And later recorded on YouTube. The website is https://www.theosophical.org/programs/lectures. But this part in the into is interesting:

According to Lakota tradition, there are four parts of the soul: Ceká¹—a (twin) is the connection with nature, NaÄ¡iÌ“ (the Guardian) is the aura or shadow, ToʹwakaÅ‹ (the Advanced Guardian) resides at the top of the head, and the NiyaÌ“ (the Breath of Life) resides at the solar plexus. These soul connections are responsible for our intuition and can be used to gain spiritual understanding. Learn how and why one seeks Hanbleceya (Vision Quest), and how it all relates to Black Elk’s message to the world.


Well, we will only know the truth of this - at the end of time. But the intuitive part is very interesting.

Just a footnote. I believe God fully speaks - through the Gospel (either EO, RC or Protestant). And through the mainline Christian churches. But God also speaks - through other outlets (like some I've mentioned here). And God extents healing, protection and blessing - through these outlets.

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And no matter what the world says - regarding Donald Trump. In my book, he's as every bit a solid leader...As Rupus T. Firefly was for Freedonia - in Duck Soup (see https://youtu.be/m9Wh66FXZJQ, for example). ;)

I just hope the world wises up, before the zombie apocalypse happens. After watching AMC's Fear the Walking Dead and The Walking Dead, we really wouldn't want to be around - if the TV version, is true to life. :)

"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."-- Pablo Picasso


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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Paidion » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:31 am

HFPZ wrote:You hit the nail - on the head. The left won't save you.


Is anyone suggesting that it will??? Republicans in the senate, after TRYING to get Trump to act reasonably and having found it impossible to do so, are either keeping quiet biting their nails, or else speaking up as several in the senate have done.

The dignified, rational man, Bob Corker, voted for Trump and did his best for him—to no avail. Finally, he resigned his position, but Trump falsely claims that he fired Corker. I invite you to listen to this Bob being interviewed (just before the senate lunch), who states the facts in a quiet manner.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPYYf5NiDOM
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Cindy Skillman » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:47 am

Randy isn't suggesting indirectly that lefties think the left will save us, Don. IMO, he IS something of a lefty, though he would probably disagree. He's also an American citizen. He and I have our disagreements, but at least he has a personal stake in these matters. Non residents are free to weigh in of course, but it might be best to refrain from any appearance of scolding.

Bob Corker and Jeff Flake can give whatever reasons they like for choosing not to run for re-election. What the rest of us see is that they have scant chance of being chosen by the voters of their respective states (Tennessee, Arizona). Corker (among many other things) essentially told the president to mind his own business regarding tax reform. During the health care debate, the president stood back, promoting but not attempting to guide the legislators. He was bitterly criticized for not involving himself in what he sees as the job of the legislators. So this time, he is being more proactive. He is being bitterly criticized (often by the same people) for involving himself. It truly does not matter what he does; SOMEONE will use it to try to hang him.

Neither Corker nor Flake have been fans of the president (while nevertheless voting for most of his agenda items). They haven't been shy about proclaiming their disapproval. Jeff Flake even wrote a negative book (which I'm given to understand was a real scorcher) about Trump while never having met or spoken to him--before the election. Conventional opinion says that this anti-Trump sentiment is the reason these senators' popularity in their home states has waned so drastically.

I swear--I believe so many people just uncritically accept and believe anything they hear on the news that they agree with--that pleases them. Fox shows complete uncensored interviews, complete (within reason) legislative speeches. They don't ALWAYS play clips in context, but in most cases I have at one time or another seen the context. I have yet to catch them spinning by deceptive editing. I don't absolutely trust them, but I feel that they, and perhaps some of the smaller internet media outlets are more honest than the legacy media.

Here is a link to the Harvard Study of media coverage of the Trump presidency: https://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-donald-trumps-first-100-days/

Sorry for posting a link--but I feel it is more honest to allow you access to the entire article. I will summarize briefly by news outlet the tone of the coverage. Many other parameters are covered in the linked article.

Domestic News Outlets

CNN: 93% negative
NBC 93% negative
CBS 91% negative
New York Times 87% negative
Washington Post 83% negative
Wall Street Journal 70% negative
Fox 52% negative

European News Outlets

ARD 98% negative
Financial Times 84% negative
BBC 74% negative
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:30 pm

Cindy Skillman wrote:Randy isn't suggesting indirectly that lefties think the left will save us, Don. IMO, he IS something of a lefty, though he would probably disagree. He's also an American citizen. He and I have our disagreements, but at least he has a personal stake in these matters. Non residents are free to weigh in of course, but it might be best to refrain from any appearance of scolding.


Political wise, I'm an independent. I support all the values, that conservative evangelicals, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox - hold dear. But I'm also an advocate, for universal health care. And I only get active in politics - via social media - if the AARP feels an issue is important (like health care for seniors).

What I'm saying is that no politician will save you. No system will save you. If that were so, we would find examples - in the Old and New Testament. However, what we see is examples of God saving the faithful. Same message that is preached today. Just turn on TV evangelist Joel Osteen - for example

Hillary vs Trump was like being caught, between a rock and a hard place. But my main concern with Trump, is he doesn't listen to advisers (i.e. Mike Pence, his social media and public relations team, his speechwriters, etc.). There should be NO reason, why fellow republicans would speak out - again a republican president.

As far as media being bias against Trump - including international media. Perhaps they just don't like him. He's not "Mr. sunshine, lollipops and rainbows" (see song https://youtu.be/w5Fgp-KihIA). It's like this old country song: https://youtu.be/zO9q7hwbGUE

But I stop short of saying ANY republican is better than a democrat. Or vice versa. Most of the time, members of both parties - fall somewhere in the glorious middle, on issues and concerns.

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:33 am

Thoughtful essay. What is being called the 'Paris Statement' -
https://thetrueeurope.eu/a-europe-we-can-believe-in/
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby steve7150 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:45 am

Hillary vs Trump was like being caught, between a rock and a hard place. But my main concern with Trump, is he doesn't listen to advisers (i.e. Mike Pence, his social media and public relations team, his speechwriters, etc.). There should be NO reason, why fellow republicans would speak out - again a republican president.







Trump definitely listens to his generals and they have wiped out the ISIS Caliphate. Trump personally is very unappealing but his policies mostly are awesome IMO. Economic growth has doubled from Obama and every economic indicator is good and getting better after getting through 3 hurricanes. So Obama was suave,intellectual,sophisticated and persuasive but worse then ineffective and Trump often acts like a buffoon but his policies for the most part really rock!
Thanks but i'll take the crazy man after all, it just might be a lunatic we're looking for!
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:50 am

Oh, no. More right wing stuff - from Steve and David. I'm sure they will trigger - the upcoming zombie apocalypse.

Here's an interesting article, in today's Patheos newsletter:


But first, let's have some mood music - from the zombie band. :lol:

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:39 pm

The article I linked to is not right wing, Randy, you zombie lover you.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby steve7150 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:02 am

Oh, no. More right wing stuff - from Steve and David. I'm sure they will trigger - the upcoming zombie apocalypse.











This is what it's come to, economic growth is right wing stuff! Under Hillary we would have soon all be required to wear green pants suits to demonstrate our allegiance to the great Environmental goddess of the universe!
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:07 am

steve7150 wrote:Oh, no. More right wing stuff - from Steve and David. I'm sure they will trigger - the upcoming zombie apocalypse.


This is what it's come to, economic growth is right wing stuff! Under Hillary we would have soon all be required to wear green pants suits to demonstrate our allegiance to the great Environmental goddess of the universe!


Actually, you can have both. I'm all for economic growth. But I like the research benefits of environmental initiatives. :lol:

Not that I was ever a Hillary fan - mind you. Trump is probably, a much better choice - given the two options. :lol:
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby steve7150 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:47 am

Actually, you can have both. I'm all for economic growth. But I like the research benefits of environmental initiatives. :lol:










So do i and who wouldn't? The issue boils down to free choices or government imposing rules on us. Within a free market system we have cut down emissions 16% recently and this trend will continue because of technology.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:52 am

steve7150 wrote:Actually, you can have both. I'm all for economic growth. But I like the research benefits of environmental initiatives. :lol:

So do i and who wouldn't? The issue boils down to free choices or government imposing rules on us. Within a free market system we have cut down emissions 16% recently and this trend will continue because of technology.


Which...without knowing all the statistical variables involved...it could be due to technology advances alone. ;)

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby steve7150 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:51 am

Which...without knowing all the statistical variables involved...it could be due to technology advances alone. ;)












Yes most of it is because of technology making equipment more and more efficient and the motivation for this improvement is a capitalistic word called "competition." :o
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:58 am

steve7150 wrote:Which...without knowing all the statistical variables involved...it could be due to technology advances alone. ;)


Yes most of it is because of technology making equipment more and more efficient and the motivation for this improvement is a capitalistic word called "competition." :o


And yet. Japanese, Korean and German vehicles, still outrank their American counterparts - in terms of quality. And Chinese products, are giving us - a run for our money. I have NO problems with capitalism. But don't make it the ONLY system - that produces technology advances. ;)

Hence, we have "competition" in capitalistic, communistic and socialistic systems.

And we can continue the chess game - of point and counter point - until the end of time. :lol:

Unless you are trying, to "sell" us something. :lol:

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby St. Michael » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:04 am

Yes most of it is because of technology making equipment more and more efficient and the motivation for this improvement is a capitalistic word called "competition."




“Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man... It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition is gone, pride is gone.” ~~ C.S. Lewis


The vice I am talking of is Pride or Self-Conceit: and the virtue opposite to it, in Christian morals, is called Humility. You may remember, when I was talking about sexual morality, I warned you that the center of Christian morals did not lie there.  Well, now, we have come to the centre.  According to Christian teachers, the essential vice, the utmost evil, is Pride.  Unchastity, anger, greed, drunkenness, and all that, are mere fleabites in comparison: it was through Pride that the devil became the devil: Pride leads to every other vice: it is the complete anti-God state of mind. ~~ C.S. Lewis


In the passage where the New Testament says that everyone must work, it gives a reason 'in order that he may have something to give to those in need'. Charity - giving to the poor - is an essential part of Christian morality: in the frightening parable of the sheep and the goats it seems to be a point on which everything turns. Some people nowadays say that charity ought to be unnecessary and that instead of giving to the poor we ought to be producing a society in which there is no poor to give to. They may be quite right in saying that we ought to produce this kind of society. But if anyone thinks that, as a consequence, you can stop giving in the meantime, then he has parted company with all Christian morality. ~~ C.S. Lewis
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby St. Michael » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:16 am

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby steve7150 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:29 am

And yet. Japanese, Korean and German vehicles, still outrank their American counterparts - in terms of quality. And Chinese products, are giving us - a run for our money. I have NO problems with capitalism. But don't make it the ONLY system - that produces technology advances. ;)

Hence, we have "competition" in capitalistic, communistic and socialistic systems.







Japan and Korea have capitalistic systems and Germany is a mixed economy and Chinese products are from private cos. So i don't know what competition you envision from Communist systems since by definition the government runs the means of production which explicitly eliminates competition.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:51 am

steve7150 wrote:And yet. Japanese, Korean and German vehicles, still outrank their American counterparts - in terms of quality. And Chinese products, are giving us - a run for our money. I have NO problems with capitalism. But don't make it the ONLY system - that produces technology advances. ;)

Hence, we have "competition" in capitalistic, communistic and socialistic systems.


Japan and Korea have capitalistic systems and Germany is a mixed economy and Chinese products are from private cos. So i don't know what competition you envision from Communist systems since by definition the government runs the means of production which explicitly eliminates competition.


But China is a communist country and Germany is a socialist country. Both do allow folks to make money. The only "unwritten rule" for China, is NOT to criticize the Chinese government.

So what are you and Dave trying to "sell"? Become a Republican and all your problems will be solved? I prefer to watch TV evangelist Joel Osteen,.. where all my problems - might possibly be solved. :lol:
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:13 am

Why would I try to sell republicanism? Or Trumpism? Or conservatism?

But I will be continuing on, Randy, so maybe for your peace of mind you should not bother reading this thread? Don't want to cause you any more distress!! :roll:

I've tried to bring up things related to the OP. Under this heading, health care, Islam, Korea, Hillary the crook, Clinton scandals, P***y grabbing, erosion of the educational system, attacks on Christianity in America, Black LIves Matter thuggery, black on black crime, inner city violence, white 'supremacy', snowflakes, safe spaces, - oh it's a rich topic, usually represented by the so-called 'drive-by-media'. Needs some balance, imo - which does not mean I am on one 'side'.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:26 am

DaveB wrote:Why would I try to sell republicanism? Or Trumpism? Or conservatism?

But I will be continuing on, Randy, so maybe for your peace of mind you should not bother reading this thread? Don't want to cause you any more distress!! :roll:

I've tried to bring up things related to the OP. Under this heading, health care, Islam, Korea, Hillary the crook, Clinton scandals, P***y grabbing, erosion of the educational system, attacks on Christianity in America, Black LIves Matter thuggery, black on black crime, inner city violence, white 'supremacy', snowflakes, safe spaces, - oh it's a rich topic, usually represented by the so-called 'drive-by-media'. Needs some balance, imo - which does not mean I am on one 'side'.


But it just brings up one step closer, to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie_apocalypse :lol:

You might be trying to exercise some control, over events you have little - or no control over - Dave. Perhaps you MIGHT persuade one or two folks, to join your crusade. But it will be little, to change the overall picture.

What I have learned, from hanging around the Buddhists (i.e Zen masters)...Native American medicine men and women.. and reading Russian Orthodox Holy Fools - is this. Folks really need to develop, a strong sense of humor. It's the best tool, to ride out the storms of life. :lol:

But I do step in to warn people - when their lives might be in danger. Like today in church, when they announced a missionary trip to Chad.

I was talking to the Bishop's wife today. It was regarding the STEP program, run by the US government. The link https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/chad-travel-warning.html, shows a travel warning for Chad - issued by the US government. To get details info, go to https://step.state.gov/step/. Towards the bottom right, is a link called country information. Click on it then put in Chad at https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country.html. It gives detailed travel, medical and safety info. I did stress that all folks traveling with the church, should register with STEP - which is a free program. Please pass this info on, to the appropriate church people.


From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer

The Serenity Prayer is the common name for a prayer written by the American theologian Reinhold Niebuhr[1][2] (1892–1971). The best-known form is:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:37 pm

Randy, you don't HAVE to read it, really - there are other threads here and maybe you can convince someone else that the ZA is real and imminent. :lol:


I will continue to plug along on this thread, even if noone reads it. There are some things that I feel need to get 'on the record' just out of principle. That's the way it's going to be.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:52 pm

By golly, I was just thinking about these particular things and up pops MavPhil's post today. You'll love it. :lol: Here it is in full.
quote
Which Side Are You On?
It is an appropriate question to ask in politics, though not in philosophy. Politics is warfare. If you call yourself conservative and don't support Trump, then you are helping the enemy. Which side are you on?

In philosophy we strive for objectivity. We take our time; we consider all points of view. We show respect for our interlocutors. We are civil. But one cannot be objective in a fight for one's life and way of life especially if one's way of life includes free speech, open inquiry, and resistance to the Left's totalitarian politicizaton and ideologization of everything, including pure mathematics! (More on this later.) One has to secure, with blood and iron if need be, the space of objective inquiry against the ideologues who, at the present time, are chiefly leftists and Islamists.

You don't like Trump? Tough shit. He's all we've got. Face reality and its limitations. Don't let the best become the enemy of the good. The milque-toast McCains haven't done jack and won't do jack, except talk and obstruct. David Horowitz:

The movement galvanized by Trump can stop the progressive juggernaut and change the American future, but only if it emulates the strategy of the campaign: Be on the offense; take no prisoners; stay on the attack. To stop the Democrats and their societal transformation, Republicans must adhere to a strategy that begins with a punch in the mouth. That punch must pack an emotional wallop large enough to throw them off balance and neutralize their assaults. It must be framed as a moral indictment that stigmatizes them in the way their attacks stigmatize Republicans. It must expose them for their hypocrisy. It must hold them accountable for the divisions they sow and the suffering they cause. (Big Agenda, Humanix, 2017, p. 142)

Trump alone, an outsider who doesn't need a job, has the civil courage and is in a position to deliver the needed punches. That's why we like him. He punches back. And for other reasons...
unquote
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby St. Michael » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:12 pm

Social Darwinism Is What Truly Guides Trump

His father taught him that the rich are better people. Who in the GOP disagrees?


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/06/social-darwinism-is-what-truly-guides-trump.html



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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:51 pm

Who in the democratic party disagrees in practice?
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:09 pm

DaveB wrote:Who in the democratic party disagrees in practice?


And I'll keep talking, about how all this political stuff - will lead to the Zombie apocalypse :(

And when all is said and done - in this thread, I predict the zombies will win :lol:

To paraphrase John Paul Jones:
I have not yet begun to zombie

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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:21 pm

But ..but ...Randy - zombies aren't real. Hate to say it, dude, but it's a fact.
OTOH, the culture war is real.
Just the way I see it.
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:27 pm

DaveB wrote:But ..but ...Randy - zombies aren't real. Hate to say it, dude, but it's a fact.
OTOH, the culture war is real.
Just the way I see it.


How do you know - zombies are not real? There are rumors that evil people in Haiti ...(I think they call them witch doctors)...cause spirits to inhabit dead bodies. When in Africa, I have heard rumors - regarding similar stuff.

I'm being serious now, Dave. Black magic is REAL and ALIVE and Well - in the world. Much as I hate, to admit it.

Now I'm off to watch Dawn of the Dead and The Walking Dead - on televisions.

Actually, zombies are some of my best friends. So they are "real" to me.

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Last edited by Holy-Fool-P-Zombie on Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Charismatic / Eastern Anglo-Catholic / Holy Fool; Inclusivist / Purgatorial Conditionalist / Nicene Creed / ACNA; Zombie Apocalypse;
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby DaveB » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:35 pm

I honor your illusion.
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:52 am

DaveB wrote:I honor your illusion.


Look. I also honor universalism. And hope and pray it is true. But some folks here, present some "far out" theologies - how it might happen. So why can't I entertain, some "far out" political theories?

I think some of the African and Haitian witch doctors, have settled in the western countries. Some have even opened up Voodoo shops, in places like New Orleans. And they are probably all reading, these political left and right wing discussions - on Facebook, here perhaps, etc. So they create some zombies - out of spite. But things get out of control. Perhaps these zombies got a hold, of some illegal drugs, etc. And the witch doctors, are busy creating more zombies. And before you know it, we have the zombie apocalypse. There. I have presented my political theory. And it ties in nicely, with the P-Zombie version of hell (as presented by folks like Anglican, New Testament scholar - N.T. Wright). And the Left Behind (book and movie) series - in theology.

Now that I've brought this up - there's no turning back. It's my duty, to "enlighten" as many people - as possible ;)

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Charismatic / Eastern Anglo-Catholic / Holy Fool; Inclusivist / Purgatorial Conditionalist / Nicene Creed / ACNA; Zombie Apocalypse;
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby steve7150 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:39 am

But China is a communist country and Germany is a socialist country. Both do allow folks to make money. The only "unwritten rule" for China, is NOT to criticize the Chinese government.

So what are you and Dave trying to "sell"? Become a Republican and all your problems will be solved?







Germany is a mixed economy, it has plenty of private enterprise plus a stock market as does China. China has a huge private sector too. Why does it seem to you Dave and i are selling anything? We have opinions as does everybody else here,yet you single us out as trying to sell our opinions or political viewpoints?
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Re: How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:42 am

steve7150 wrote:But China is a communist country and Germany is a socialist country. Both do allow folks to make money. The only "unwritten rule" for China, is NOT to criticize the Chinese government.

So what are you and Dave trying to "sell"? Become a Republican and all your problems will be solved?


Germany is a mixed economy, it has plenty of private enterprise plus a stock market as does China. China has a huge private sector too. Why does it seem to you Dave and i are selling anything? We have opinions as does everybody else here,yet you single us out as trying to sell our opinions or political viewpoints?


Which just says that communistic, capitalistic and socialistic systems - can all allow competition, making money and becoming rich. Without the need, to change the particular system.

You and Dave can present your opinions, Steve. And I can also present my opinion, on what will trigger - the up and coming zombie apocalypse. Which I have presented, in the previous post. And I will be expanding on it - in future posts. ;)

Perhaps we can have, what I call - a "Tit for Tat dialogue" :?:

"Perfect is very boring, and if you happen to have a different look, that's a celebration of human nature, I think. If we were all symmetrical and perfect, life would be very dull."-- Natalie Dormer


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Last edited by Holy-Fool-P-Zombie on Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Charismatic / Eastern Anglo-Catholic / Holy Fool; Inclusivist / Purgatorial Conditionalist / Nicene Creed / ACNA; Zombie Apocalypse;
Contemplation (Celtic, Mindfulness, Yoga, Zen); Holistic Medicine (i.e. Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Kampo, Traditional, Spiritual);
User avatar
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