Well, since this thread started with Mr. John Piper, I will add this:
Well, Piper is worlds away from most of us here. Though we have to realize and understand where they(he) are/is coming from. 
He is not the guru you want to listen to. 
Is John Piper, by chance, related to The Pied Piper 
Randy… you are amazing!
From investors.com/politics/edito … -that-way/
Did Votes By Noncitizens Cost Trump The 2016 Popular Vote? Sure Looks That Way
6/22/2017
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Election 2016: Late in 2016, we created a stir by suggesting that Donald Trump was likely right when he claimed that millions of noncitizens had illegally voted in the U.S. election. Now, a study by a New Jersey think tank provides new evidence that that’s what happened.
Last November, just weeks after his Electoral College win that gave him the presidency, then President-elect Donald Trump tweeted, “In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.”
The reaction was angry and swift, with the left accusing him of being an “internet troll” and of hatching a “Twitter-born conspiracy theory.”
At the time, we noted that a group called True The Vote, an online anti-voter-fraud website, had claimed that illegals had cast three million votes last year. The media and left-wing groups immediately portrayed True The Vote as a fringe group with little credibility.
The only problem is, a study in 2014 in the online Electoral Studies Journal made a quite similar claim: In the 2008 and 2010 elections, they said, as many as 2.8 million illegal noncitizen votes were cast, “enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes and congressional elections,” said the study, authored by Jesse T. Richman and Gushan A. Chattha, both of Old Dominion University, and David C. Earnest of George Mason University. (from a longer article on the web page referenced above).
Click for full cartoon
At the time, we noted that a group called True The Vote, an online anti-voter-fraud website, had claimed that illegals had cast three million votes last year. The media and left-wing groups immediately portrayed True The Vote as a fringe group with little credibility.
I think in liberal states like CA & VT you just need a drivers license to vote but it seems hard to believe in a state like CA that many illegals would be that motivated to take any risks and vote in a Presidential race when everyone knows it’s voting blue no matter what.
The left depends on the illegal voters - and are against a voter fraud bill that would accomplish what should be done, which is to ensure that only citizens vote.
From frontpagemag.com/point/26709 … greenfield
In this age of media hitpieces in which conspiracy theories backed by anonymous sources are spun out to hit lefty eyeballs at the Washington Post, CNN and the Times, how bad does a story have to be… to be retracted?
This bad.
On Thursday evening, CNN investigative reporter Thomas Frank published a potentially explosive report involving an investigation of a Russian investment fund with potential ties to several associates of President Donald Trump.
But by Friday night, the story was removed from CNN’s website and all links were scrubbed from the network’s social media accounts.
“That story did not meet CNN’s editorial standards and has been retracted,” CNN said in an editors note posted in place of the story. “Links to the story have been disabled.”
But there was an anonymous source.
Thomas Frank published the story on Thursday citing one anonymous source. The source told Frank the Senate Intelligence Committee was looking into relations between adviser Anthony Scaramucci and a Russian fund that is sanctioned in the United States.
If you can’t trust anonymous sources, whom can you trust?
And sometimes it’s hard, to tell a story - for some strange reason. And get people, to believe in it. Like Sunil Bali did today at sunilbali.com/2017/06/doormats-and-people-pleasers/:
And here’s Sunil’s take on life:
Truth is stranger than fiction?
News Just In
$95 million dollars has been found in a flat in Nigeria.
The poor guy spent the last 10 years trying to share it, but no one responded to his emails
I think he tried to share it with me several times
This ongoing, forum thread feud, between Steve and Dave vs qaz - reminds me of a Bugs Bunny Cartoon. Where Elmer Fudd and Yosemite Sam, team up to battle Bugs Bunny
And Daffy Duck occasionally steps in - to help out both sides 
Now it’s HFPZ-DD?
Quote:
As Montel Williams appeared on Friday’s CNN Newsroom with Brooke Baldwin to discuss his recent USA Today article attacking Republican plans to repeal ObamaCare, the former talk show host accused congressional Republicans of not caring about their own family members and of supporting a plan that would send their relatives and 140 million other Americans to “death.”
After recalling that, by the year 2020, 140 million Americans would be suffering from chronic illnesses, he added: “They are going to be looking for somebody to give them medication and health care. And what this bill does is sends them all to death.”
Who wouldn’t take health care policy advice from noted scholar, Montel Williams.
But why stop at 140 million. Maybe billions will die. And as long as we’re arguing over how many people repealing ObamaCare will kill, we aren’t discussing why it’s a shameless brazen lie. "
I prefer to get it from noted scholar DaveB - of this forum.
As well you should.
Supreme Court upheld Trump’s travel ban 9 - 0 except with a limited exception and will hear the entire case in October. All the talking heads i saw on CNN and MSNBC were totally wrong despite the fact that the law explicitly allows a President to do this. They issued a temporary ruling based on the liklehood of success in October.
CNN has retracted their story about Anthony Caramuchie one of Trump’s advisers having colluded with Russia and they have instituted a new process where stories about Trump adm colluding with Russia have to be approved by higher ups before being aired.
If anyone colluded with Russia, sold out the USA, and made a TON of money at the same time = Bill and Hill and their ‘foundation’.
Sickening, and they should be brought to justice.
I will wait to see more of the specifics, but at first glance, the Senate health care bill is a travesty. Less people insured, cut taxes to wealthy, slow down the growth of medicare (not a bad thing) - again, both parties don’t have an entire brain between them. Disgusting.
Sometimes you surprise me, DaveB. It looks like your adding your voice to the:
AARP
The American Academy of Pediatrics
America’s Essential Hospitals
The Association of American Medical College
The American Medical Association
National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse
ETC.
I wish politicians (both Democrats and Republicans), would solicit input first - from prominent US medical organizations.
I’m happy your NOT saying that ANY bill - is better than Obamacare.
The thing has not passed yet; there’s a lot I don’t know.
I don’t know what the other organizations you mentioned are thinking; there are monied interests on both sides of course - that’s what Washington is all about - but I did have a shred of hope that someone would be more concerned about the American people.
Obamacare is a terrrible terrible program and has to go, imo.