An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

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An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby DaveB » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:24 pm

Ok, I made up that word :-).
He does a pretty good job showing the links between the 'therapeutic society' and other ways that humans have understood the use/misuse of government. Here is an excerpt, a link will follow;

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The trend over the last century has been away from the Constitutional order and the free-market economy. Ironically, despite greater regulations and dirigiste policies that have inhibited growth, enormous wealth has still been created and distributed, and new technologies developed. Unfortunately, this improvement fosters the illusion that we have transcended the tragic constants of human history, and now can afford to believe that even greater improvement should take place. Today, being well-fed, entertained, healthy, and free to an extent unprecedented in history is not enough. We must always be happy and pleased with ourselves, our lives free from challenge and strife and anything, including the consequences of our own free actions, that disturbs our self-regard. If we aren’t, then we look to government power or psychological interventions to correct this injustice.

The “snowflake” phenomenon on our college campuses is just one example of this widespread belief, the malign effects of which extend far beyond the millennial generation. Apart from the damage to our characters, autonomy, freedom, and sense of responsibility for our actions, the therapeutic vision runs counter to the foundations of our political and economic order. We can see the cost to the former in the reduction of our freedoms caused by political correctness and the laws defending the sensibilities and feelings of “protected” classes. The anxiety not to cause offense leads to censorship both formal and internalized, which compromises our First Amendment right to free speech without which a democracy cannot function. And the demand to meet ever escalating standards of well-being and comfort by redistributing wealth has contributed to sluggish economic growth, the unsustainable expense of social welfare entitlements, and the $20 trillion in debt on track to bankrupt the country.

The question we all face is whether the people and their elected leaders can turn back from a failing therapeutic utopianism, and accept once again the tragic limits to human existence that the foundations of our political and economic structures once acknowledged.

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http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265176/ ... e-thornton
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby maintenanceman » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:54 am

You are up late :D

Interesting article.

Today, being well-fed, entertained, healthy, and free to an extent unprecedented in history is not enough. We must always be happy and pleased with ourselves, our lives free from challenge and strife and anything, including the consequences of our own free actions, that disturbs our self-regard. If we aren’t, then we look to government power or psychological interventions to correct this injustice.


I have been hungry, albeit not in a third world /starvation manner, but hungry enough that with each meal I have to this day I am thankful for. I have had bouts with pain that make me very thankful when my body is relatively pain free. I have had economic times of plenty and economic times of hardship. Thus even though I may make less today than I did in 1979, I have learned to be frugal and live within my means and have hopefully separated wants/desires from necessities. Life has made/allowed me to find joy in small things and appreciate things that at one time may have been overlooked or taken for granted.

All this to say that it was life that took me to those place and ultimately to where I am today. Yet as a father and grandfather, I want to keep my kids out of harms way, but the harms way is what molded me into a better person.

I think. :?
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby DaveB » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:15 am

Interesting paradox Chad, and I totally get it. :D
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby St. Michael » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:34 am

Life has made/allowed me to find joy in small things and appreciate things that at one time may have been overlooked or taken for granted.


That's it right there maintenance. You've got it! :D


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In everything, love simplicity. Saint Francis de Sales


Genius is the ability to reduce the complicated to the simple. ~ C W Ceran


“Manifest plainness,
Embrace simplicity,
Reduce selfishness,
Have few desires.”
― Lao Tzu


How many undervalue the power of simplicity! But it is the real key to the heart. William Wordsworth

and this:

but the harms way is what molded me into a better person.



Like Bill Wilson says:


For all its usual destructiveness, we have found that fear can be the starting point for better things. Fear can be a stepping stone to prudence and to a decent respect for others. It can point the path to justice, as well as to hate. And the more we have of respect and justice, the more we shall begin to find the love which can suffer much, and yet be freely given. So fear need not always be destructive, because the lessons of its consequences can lead us to positive values.
"A poor man is better than a liar” (Proverbs 19:22). No matter how rich, how clever, how successful, how handsome, how famous, how powerful. ~~ John Piper
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby JasonPratt » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:55 pm

Now that essay I agree was well-written. :mrgreen: (Disclosure: it helps that I agree with his estimation about the 19th century introducing factors into our understanding of man vs nature which has led to frustrated expectations in Western civilization -- and in civilizations outside ours but necessarily impacted.)

Passing along to my fellow Grogheads in our politics section. (Via the original article at hoover.org, which is somewhat less click-baity than FrontPageMag: http://www.hoover.org/research/united-states-crybabies)
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby DaveB » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:31 pm

JasonPratt wrote:Now that essay I agree was well-written
Attachments
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:50 pm

The only problem is that we constantly seek solutions - from the outside. Not from God and not looking inside. Instead, let Trumpenstein and the Trumpeters rescue us. Or whoever is in change. How should we answer this question :?:

New Living Translation - Luke 18:8 -I tell you, he will grant justice to them quickly! But when the Son of Man returns, how many will he find on the earth who have faith?"
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby JasonPratt » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:07 am

:lol: Dave :lol: :mrgreen:
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:23 am

This came today, from the Christian Patheos site.

#IStandWithMoore Against SBC Hypocrisy

I will quote it here - for reflection. :D

#IStandWithMoore is a hashtag for those who support Dr. Russell Moore. I am proud to be one of them. Dr. Moore has recently come under fire because of statements he made about Donald Trump during the election. Dr. Moore has correctly criticized the religious right for supporting a man who does not support the values of the religious right. He has been a prophetic voice during the 2016 election season and I applaud him for it. The fact is that the religious right in the Southern Baptist Convention is losing its influence. So instead of choosing to agree to disagree with Dr. Moore, people like Dr. Jack Graham (pastor of Prestonwood Baptist Church who was on Trump’s advisory team during the election) have criticized him.
I find it strange that when Dr. Richard Land was President of the ERLC, SBC leaders supported him when he stood up to President Bill Clinton during his sexual scandals. However, now that Donald J. Trump becomes President, some in the SBC are not as interested in speaking with that same prophetic tone. I didn’t vote for Trump, nor Clinton. I know many people who had a hard time choosing their candidate because other good candidates didn’t win the nomination.

The problem here is that as a denomination, we risk losing our prophetic voice at a time when we need it most. Younger generations who are leaving the church are doing so because our leaders are putting Caesar over Christ. As Dwight McKissic (pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas) put it, we risk becoming the Trump Baptist Convention. I personally believe that we should spend more time promoting Christ above Caesar. We should place more priority of the gospel over partisan politics.

People tend to know the SBC more for what we are against than we stand for. Dr. Russell Moore has a proven track record being a positive voice in our denomination. For example, he has spoken out against abortion and at the same time for adoption. Like me, he has proven his convictions by adopting children. I applaud Dr. Moore as he has been a voice of conviction and reason during this divisive election season.

I support Dr. Russell Moore and I am thankful that he has chosen to continue to speak out. He has apologized to people who may have misinterpreted what he said. So I think we need to let this issue rest. The SBC should spend more time sharing the Gospel and reaching out to a lost and dying world for Christ. We don’t have time to argue about political differences with people whom we may disagree. If we don’t choose to unite behind Dr. Moore, we will lose a prophetic voice that is so needed. We may also miss an opportunity to reach out to the very people who need Christ the most by this division. They will see our hypocrisy and decide it is not worth choosing Christ.
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby maintenanceman » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:56 pm

Randy you quoted a statement from 'Stand with Moore' that said:
The problem here is that as a denomination, we risk losing our prophetic voice at a time when we need it most. Younger generations who are leaving the church are doing so because our leaders are putting Caesar over Christ.


We have to ask is this really happening? :shock:

Is it possible that culture and society and... heaven forbid, the idea of the Godly family, may be changing? :o
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby JasonPratt » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:30 am

Also, why is that essay being linked in this thread? It isn't about the therapeutic culture effect. :?
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:47 am

JasonPratt wrote:Also, why is that essay being linked in this thread? It isn't about the therapeutic culture effect. :?

You can't have "therapeutic society' and other ways that humans have understood the use/misuse of government" (AKA reaction to the Trumpenstein election) , without also examining "Hypocrisy and Christian values" (which deals specifically with Trumpenstein and SBC representatives - either endorsing or denouncing him). And considering it comes from the SBC (i.e. Southern Baptist Convention), which is a huge Christian organization - they do have things to share, for us to reflect upon. :D

It's like saying this:

    It's OK to denounce folks, crying over the election of Trumpenstein - get on with it
    It's NOT OK for the SBC representatives...to specially say things, about electing a man to office... who doesn't represent right wing, Christian values (AKA We as Christians, don't want to hear that Christian value stuff - regarding a chosen leader. Just give us someone who can implement, author Ayn Rand economic and political agendas).

What's wrong with this picture :?:

"Be better today than you were yesterday, and be better tomorrow than you are today."-- Lorenzo Snow


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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby JasonPratt » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:57 pm

Ah, got it. Most of that essay wasn't about people overreacting to the Trump election, so I didn't think of it being primarily about that (the overreactions just being a recent symptom of a larger long-running cultural shift which the article was discussing).

But strictly speaking, you're wrong. You can actually discuss both problems separately, because they're two quite different problems. Nor does the problem of sacrificing Christian values for power (which is absolutely not new to the current Trump version of the problem) count as a rebuttal to the problem of the rise of a therapeutic culture (which is also not new to the current Trump version of that problem).

Relatedly, if I question why an article on problem H is in a thread about a problem T, that is not the same as me saying it's not okay to discuss problem T, too. But switching to a completely different problem, even though it coincidentally also happens to involve Trump, looks like thread hijacking.
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:07 am

In honoring the separation of the 2 topics, I opened up a separate thread at http://www.evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=7129 ;)

Just a footnote here. I have observed that many threads here, get off on tangents. And often it's initiated, by the original thread author. I'm still trying to figure out the difference there and bringing up a Christian ethical consideration, of a pseudo-therapeutic essay - on the Trumpenstein election (and bringing up an article reference, to support that sub-point). Can someone please enlighten me :?: :o :?
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby JasonPratt » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:44 am

Holy-Fool-P-Zombie wrote:I'm still trying to figure out the difference there and bringing up a Christian ethical consideration, of a pseudo-therapeutic essay - on the Trumpenstein election (and bringing up an article reference, to support that sub-point). Can someone please enlighten me :?: :o :?


Anyone who understands your sentence is free to try to enlighten you; I can't, because I can't even understand what you're saying in that bolded section. And any guesses I made wouldn't sound charitable.

I'm glad you made a new thread for it, though, as I do think your article's topic is important, too, and deserves its own attention. :)
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:09 pm

JasonPratt wrote:
Holy-Fool-P-Zombie wrote:I'm still trying to figure out the difference there and bringing up a Christian ethical consideration, of a pseudo-therapeutic essay - on the Trumpenstein election (and bringing up an article reference, to support that sub-point). Can someone please enlighten me :?: :o :?


Anyone who understands your sentence is free to try to enlighten you; I can't, because I can't even understand what you're saying in that bolded section. And any guesses I made wouldn't sound charitable.

I'm glad you made a new thread for it, though, as I do think your article's topic is important, too, and deserves its own attention. :)


Let me try again. For example: Someone might open a thread on free will, with the objective that we really have no free will. Then they bring up sub topics, like evolution, genesis, etc. Sub topics that have nothing to do, with the original topic, thesis, hypothesis, or question. I have seen many threads like this here. How is this different, from what I was attempting to do - in this thread? Hope this helps.

After all, isn't the sub topic of creationism and young earth vs old earth, big bang and evolution - really a new thread?

Or am I really the only one, observing these events in threads here?
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby DaveB » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:08 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: Great!
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby JasonPratt » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:39 am

Holy-Fool-P-Zombie wrote:Let me try again. For example: Someone might open a thread on free will, with the objective that we really have no free will. Then they bring up sub topics, like evolution, genesis, etc. Sub topics that have nothing to do, with the original topic, thesis, hypothesis, or question. I have seen many threads like this here. How is this different, from what I was attempting to do - in this thread? Hope this helps.

After all, isn't the sub topic of creationism and young earth vs old earth, big bang and evolution - really a new thread?


So, you only sounded like you were repeatedly trying to defend the inclusion of the new, barely relevant topic as actually being so relevant that not including it would be wrong. You actually knew full well this sub topic has nothing to do with the original topic, thesis, hypothesis, or question. Your real purpose was an extended satirical attack against people who, having introduced a topic, then go on in their own thread to bring up new topics that don't have much to do with the original topic -- and you chose DaveB as the target of your satire, presumably because he has been doing this and it annoys you (which would be strange, since I often find you flippantly flipping topics around in other people's threads, much as in this one, using holy-fool tradition for your justification). But since he hadn't had time to flip the topic himself, and you were in a rush and didn't want to wait for him to do it again in his own thread so that you could satirize a fresh example of it, you did it yourself (as you often do in other threads), thus kicking off your extended satire where you pretended, by changing someone else's topic, that someone changing their own topic made perfect sense.

And now that I have made your point for you, by trying to figure out why you would think the two topics were related while you satirically defended their relation, even though you knew perfectly well from the beginning they weren't (this being part of your satirical objection to people like, presumably, DaveB, since it would be pretty damn unfair for you to randomly flip topics in someone's thread to protest someone flipping topics randomly in their own thread, to someone who wasn't flipping their own topics around kind of randomly in his own threads), your purpose has been achieved and you have laid the cards of your satirical protest on the table, expecting me (as one of the ad/mods whose attention you hoped to get) to agree that if person A changes topics in their own thread, they don't really have the right to do so in their own thread. So we ad/mods ought to be policing this better, ensuring that people don't change topics in their own threads so much.

Except there are two problems:

A.) This isn't an example of someone flipping topics in their own thread. Dave hadn't done that here yet. Hijacking someone else's topic isn't the same as someone changing their own topics.

and

B.) I don't agree that people have no right to change topics in their own thread; whereas I have some minor disagreement about people trying to change other people's topics (to get attention for themselves and away from the thread's starter perhaps). Which is what your satire involved; and indeed, you've managed to use me for hijacking attention away from anyone discussing Dave's point by getting more or almost all the attention for yourself.

If you decide to defend this by claiming you're only a philosophical zombie with no free will and this is an example of P-Zombie pragmatism, I'm going to treat you as a philosophical zombie for a change, i.e. as a spambot doing what spambots are pragmatically designed to do (by people who aren't themselves spambots). Since I don't think you're going to think it's very amusing to be treated as a spambot (although I'll be somewhat grimly amused at treating you as a spambot for insisting on being nothing more than a spambot as an excuse for your behavior), I thought I should alert you before you tried in case you were thinking about doing so.

However, if you now reveal instead that this whole extended farrago was your way of satirizing the solipcistic attention-getting attitudes promoted by the culture being critiqued in the article Dave linked to, I would at least agree that the topic turned out to be relevant after all, and even Dave might appreciate the massive (if tediously extended and looping) irony involved. But even then, I would still think your article deserved its own thread for discussion and attention. :)
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:54 am

Image

It was Christmas and it's going on New Years, Jason. So I'm in a festive good mood. I'll neither confirm nor deny, your commentary and analysis. Much like they do, when being questioned by political committees. I'm too much into the holiday spirit now.

Nothing against DaveB. I actually like the guy and enjoy his posts - for the most part. But considering I like works like Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift, for their "deeper meaning", might give folks insight - into my literary preferences and style. I really just hang out with P-Zombies (along with Holy Fools), so they made me an honorary member.

Of course, it could be that I thought the article was related - so I just shared it (nothing else intended nor implied). Then realized later, that other thread starters or thread posters - have done things, I thought were similar (when it was pointed out, the 2 articles are not related). Sometimes the simplest explanation, is really the best.

I run 2 sizable LinkedIn groups myself. I get around any ambiguities, by writing out the rules. And if something comes up that's not covered, the rules are appended. Which is the norm for LinkedIn groups. Folks can always refer to the written rules.

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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby DaveB » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:22 am

Maybe you've been with relatives, sitting comfortably in a room by a fire, all talking about Grandpa and what you should do with him, where he might be happy in a 'home' or something? And after about a half an hour, Grandpa speaks up and says "Uh....you know I'm sitting right here, don't you"? :lol:

Going back over this thread - I've posted the OP which was just a link; and then I posted some laughy faces at someone else's joke, and then agreed with something someone said, and as far as I can tell, I haven't gone off-topic at all. That's as to this particular thread. I have at times been guilty of getting drawn aside by a shiny object that I can't resist, but not here.

Be that as it may, I have it on good assurance that DaveB is aware, not only of his prodigious mental abilities, quick-as-a-whip wit, Mariana-trench-deep understanding of all things, and is an honorary Navajo known as David Shining Horse - he is also aware of his many, more-than-Mariana-trench-deep foibles. Mea culpa, mea culpa...I forget the rest.. :oops:

It's time for a resolution!!!!!! (Beatles: So You Want a Resolution, uh huh) I resolve to avoid the temptation of said shiny objects (that's like, a metaphor for off-topic wanderings/wonderings) and stay on point. I will fail, repent, fail, repent ad nauseum, but in many ways - that's kinda like life. :D

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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:29 am

DaveB wrote:Be that as it may, I have it on good assurance that DaveB is aware, not only of his prodigious mental abilities, quick-as-a-whip wit, Mariana-trench-deep understanding of all things, and is an honorary Navajo known as David Shining Horse - he is also aware of his many, more-than-Mariana-trench-deep foibles. Mea culpa, mea culpa...I forget the rest.. :oops:

INoel!!


So, Dave, are you really being sincere, here, when you say
" is an honorary Navajo known as David Shining Horse"
:?:

    If so, can you share how that came about :?:
    And does anything I share regarding the Lakota, Ojibwa or Ute tribal ceremonies (the tribes I usually hung around with) here - at this forum - resonate with you :?:

Although some things I've shared, were really from the Southwestern / South American Indian tribes (i.e. Ayahuasca and Peyote ceremonies). Which I have observed. But can neither confirm non deny, if I have ever participated.

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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby DaveB » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:44 am

Randy, I've been immersed the past few weeks in R. Allen Chappell's Navajo mystery series (https://www.amazon.com/Navajo-Nation-My ... s=chappell) and have read many other Native American themed materials, but that is a close as I've gotten to the real thing.
The David Shining Horse moniker was stolen directly from book 5 of that series, which I managed to turn into a joke on my relatives who were here for the holidays. Uncle Dave is a bit quirky, you know....so when at dinner he mentioned his fascination with things Navajo, certain rituals and such, in particular the naming of children, he asked the assembled diners at table if they would feel comfortable calling him David Shining Horse. It went over quite well, and only one person took me seriously. :lol:

So to answer your question: I was not serious about it, any more than I was serious about the Mariana-trench thingies. I was attempting the...how you say...ah, yes.....lightheartedness.

I like and respect you and Jason as well, though be assured I find you both just as frustrating as you find me.
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.
DaveB
 
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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby AndreLinoge » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:25 pm

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Re: An essay on snowflakism by Bruce Thornton

Postby DaveB » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:56 pm

That's the new flag I heard about, Andre?
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.
DaveB
 
Posts: 3881
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 3:07 pm


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