The Evangelical Universalist Forum

What books are our members reading? Post updates freely! {g}

As well as can be in Mesa Az visiting in-laws! Actually a nice vacation.

Gosh the weather must be much better than where I am at… Sunshine? :laughing:

Yep!

Just have fun my friend. Enjoy. We will talk soon. Tell me of any exotic foods :laughing:

Love ya and safety,

Chad

Dear Jason;
Please read and review our new book 490 p commentary on Universalism, “God’s Love Wins All.”
Please inquire for a FREE copy PDF or see amazon.
God’s Love Wins All by Ross S Marshall and Dr. George F Howe.
Amazon books.
Please reply and thank you.
email me at weirdvideos2008@yahoo.com
for free review copy.
ROSS

This book is a well written attempt to convince the easily impressed to swallow the false teaching of Full Preterism (which is much like Pantelism), like the Watchtower magazine easily impresses so many:

amazon.com/Christian-Hope-t … 0615705901

I have the 3rd edition of June 2016. On p.234 it states re Acts 1:11:

“The disciples did not really see Jesus go into heaven”.

After quoting the verse on p.233:

“This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as [hos tropos] you saw Him go into heaven”.

To counter that book is another titled:

“When Shall These Things Be? A Reformed Response To Hyper-Preterism”, ed. Keith A Mathison, c 2004, 376 pages.

“…this book is a good starting point for people who are finding themselves tempted by the quasi-Gnostic, neo-Hymenaean, anti-authoritarian, hyper-spiritualizing, history-ignoring gangrene which is hyperpreterism and all of its attendant bleak outlooks on the (lack of) this world’s redemptive future.”

amazon.com/When-Shall-These … 0875525520

“Pantelism, however, is a teaching - growing in evangelical circles today - that can be called nothing other than heresy, and the ramifications of this teaching are not only dangerous for individuals but destructive to the Church of Jesus Christ.”

The End of All Things: A Defense of the Future, C. Jonathin Seraiah, 1999, p.15

amazon.com/End-All-Things-D … 1885767536

“Beyond Retribution…” by Christopher D. Marshall

“Many people view God as an immovable Judge administering inflexible justice. Worse still, the form of justice that most people talk about is a specific form of justice: Retributive Justice. Marshall has done us a huge favour by pointing out to us that biblical justice is far “beyond retribution”.”

“Marshall, through his scholarly and biblical approach, opens my mind to understand, for the first time, how Paul and Jesus, being Jews, would view justice in the Hebrew and Old Testament tradition. He notes that biblical justice is “shalom-justice” (p. 45) and not the narrowly interpreted retributive justice of the western world which, in turn, is based heavily on Greco-Roman, not biblical, traditions.”

“…Quite how to reconcile the seemingly vindictive and violent texts of the Old Testament with the more restorative and loving texts of the New Testaments is a worrying problem to many Christians.”

“In this book, Prof. Marshall not only sets out to establish the uniformity of the restorative message across the entire biblical texts but also highlight how the traditional sense of justice and punishment as functioning in a purely retributive sense is problematic not just for Biblical interpretations, but also in the practical application of law and justice.”

Free preview:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=hHmi8SoZ_9MC&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186&dq=Christopher+D.+Marshall++realities+in+question+pertain+to+the+future+age”&source=bl&ots=dHoYw-muXa&sig=XiQugCFdQ_3QV_QN1iwz_A_hXFk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-_tDO7r3bAhWIrVQKHclcDn8Q6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Christopher%20D.%20Marshall%20%20realities%20in%20question%20pertain%20to%20the%20future%20age”&f=false

Origen

Mar 23
“Pantelism, however, is a teaching - growing in evangelical circles today - that can be called nothing other than heresy, and the ramifications of this teaching are not only dangerous for individuals but destructive to the Church of Jesus Christ.”

Yes it is growing because it is a useful understanding of what Christ did and has done for humanity. You seem to be oblivious to Gods Works…

!!!
[JRP’s Ad/mod note: I’m leaving this reply since it’s directed at the particular quote from the book which Origen was linking to – insult for insult, the end. All subsequent discussion should be carried over to an appropriate thread, and I’ve given time for the discussers to do so. With their permission I have deleted subsequent debate posts on this and related topics.]

Yep DP is really good when it comes to the prêterist rationale, BUT yeah, has never liked the inclusive soteriological “implications” of the same… something I wrangled with many prêterists in former times when I first ran with the “pantelism” moniker to explain the fusion of BOTH fulfilled eschatology AND soteriology.

The term pantelism when used by either anti or non-full prêterists typically just refers to full prêterism BUT in full prêterist circles it is viewed (inadequately I might say) as universalist prêterism.

!!! [JRP ad/mod edit: since this is in direct commentary on a position described by Qaz in his post on what he’s reading, I’m letting it stand (in fact un-deleted) as on topic. DEBATE AND FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE TOPIC should go to a proper thread, not here.]

[snik!]

And to keep it on topic, I recommend “All Over But The Shouting” by Rick Bragg. Really good memoir! A look at the southern way of life and a broken family and love and dealing with life in ways we do not expect. Highly recommended. Bought it at a yard sale. :smile:

“Knowledge and Human Interests” by Jurgen Habermas. At this point in the book he is explaining Hegel’s critique of Kant’s critique of pure knowledge (i.e., a priori knowledge and the possibility of synthetic a priori knowledge).
The book is a bit dated now and somewhat out of fashion, but well worth the efforts to understand the problems involved in a phenomenological approach.

You asked! :slight_smile:

WOW :telephone_receiver: I would need help with that one. :grinning:

If a person has a real interest in the subject, it’s not too difficult. Kind of a guilty pleasure for me.

Thanks!

I just finished ‘To Heaven and Back’ by Mary Neal

Great book if you are interested in the afterlife and NDE’s.

Though it may invite controversy that shouldn’t be pursued on this thread, I completed “The Triumph of Love: Same-Sex Marriage and the Christian Love Ethic” by published universalist and philosopher, Dr. Eric Reitan. Here is the review I submitted to Amazon:

"Eric Reitan presents a well reasoned and more than thorough case for supporting same-sex marriage in light of core Christian values. He presses the need to be able to honestly wrestle, and be able to differ in a loving way about such a controversial issue. And he generously evaluates classic arguments against it, including negative Bible texts, arguments that it is unnatural, and that it is a slippery slope to accepting other problematic unions.

But most pivotal for Reitan is the New Testament consensus that “Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:10). It’s not only that “God is love” (1 John 4:8), and that “the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself”) Gal. 5:14), but that Jesus concludes, “All the Law and Prophets (the Scripture) hang” on such love (Matthew 22:40).

This leads Reitan to ask what God’s will as a love that seeks others’ good would mean for those whose drive for romantic intimacy is profoundly homosexual. And he argues that caring to evaluate this means that we cannot bypass knowing and examining the actual experiences of those whose deepest instincts are toward such intimacy. Especially when they repeatedly face the message that that this is condemned as an affront to God, with no acceptable expression.

He cites St. Paul’s reasoning that the option of lifelong monogamy is vital for the welfare of heterosexuals lacking the gift of celibacy. And examining the known results, he observes that opposing a similar fidelity for homosexuals reinforces endless guilt about failure to change, hiding a key part of their identity, and/or momentary relief in promiscuous patterns of meaningless sexual encounters. But we observe that when the option of a committed monogamous union is encouraged, many experience a much healthier and loving life.

Thus for Reitan, there is no contest about which option produces better fruit, and which has any benefits outweighed by more destructive harm. And to be candid, as one who long has been stunned at how united all the apostles were that love is the enduring “Royal Law” which matters above all, I found Reitan’s approach highly convincing, and I would richly commend his volume to anyone who is wrestling with this challenging issue."

Out of curiosity, Bob. Do you support that theological viewpoint, personally? Obviously, if I usually side with Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholic, theological viewpoints…And quote from the non-denominational site Got Questions…I can’t personally side with that viewpoint. That’s all I have to ask and say.

Yes, as I said, for some time now, that is the approach that I have found most convincing.

Thanks Bob! :+1: Appreciate it!