The Evangelical Universalist Forum

God was to be man’s slave. How did the reverse happen?

God was to be man’s slave. How did the reverse happen?

Early man created both philosophy and theology to serve mankind. Philosophy was to seek the best rules to live by and implement them through a political system that was headed by man. Theology was to seek the best rules to live by and implement them through religion headed by an absentee God. Both were created to be slaved to man.

Jesus preached that holy things were created to serve man as well. The Sabbath was created for man and not man for the Sabbath. That is why he showed that we can work on the Sabbath and ignore the manmade law.

The religious manmade creations then, — including God, — are to be slaved to man. That works well with logic and reason as the strong are to serve the weak and not the weak serve the strong.

So how did God, who was to be a slave to man, — become man’s master?

Now I know that most will say that God is supposed to be our master, — but please note, — that man has created government to serve us. Not to make slaves of us. We control governments. They do not control us. To have us control our political entity is normal and just.

As above so below says that God is also to come under man’s control. We created God just as we created governments.

That is what Jesus taught.
He even moved God aside and became our judge. We are now to answer to men and not some absentee man created God.

Are you ready to seek God as Jesus says we must? Are you willing to be a master to God, and like Jesus, take control of the judging powers of God?

When you can say that your God is I am, the Gnostic Christian way — and mean you, — then you will begin to know God.

Regards
DL

To know who and where Jesus thought God was. youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesf … r_embedded

To find I am in you.
youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

General Gnostic beliefs.
thesongofgod.com/tgc/basic_beliefs.html

Interesting perspective. But it is the slave master mentality that offends me in Christianity. If Gnostic teachings are that I Am. Meaning I am God you are God there is nothing that is not God then how can there be slavery at all?

Religion means to bind into servitude. Religion literally means to bind. And the Bible makes it abundantly clear that we are slaves servants and sheep.
If you throw of the shackles of religion then you are free to find God. But when you do surprise surprise God is you.

So then what do you do? If you go tell everyone that you are God they will think your mad. If you explain patiently that we are all God people will just roll there eyes and go back to grazing like the sheep they are.

Just try refusing to pay your income tax, and you will see who is in control.

Religion - to bind up that which was broken; to bind failing limbs so they might re-strengthen. Not a binding to slavery.
Servitude? I am happy to serve a wise, beneficent, and loving Heavenly Father. In fact, I’m happiest in that servitude; conversely, I’m unhappy and I make others unhappy the further I get from that loving obedience.

I do believe that in your striving to justify a position, you are making a caricature of Christianity, and I wish you would stop it.

Actually, no, it does not.
From Dictionary.com:

One possible root of the word may be from the Latin word “to bind,” however the etymology of a word is not the same thing as its literal meaning.

From the entry at the Online Etymology Dictionary:

And, anyway, the roots of the English word “religion” have nothing to do with the Greek words that we translate “religion,” so this is really irrelevant.

King David was not too proud to say, “The Lord is my Shepherd”

Jesus says the good Shepherd lays down his life for His sheep.

Jesus was not too proud to be a servant. The greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven is the servant of all. And we know who the greatest one is.

The Bible makes it clear that we are the children of God, loved by our Father.

James says: “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.”

I’ve no desire to throw off those “shackles” as you call them …

I sure hope not.

:unamused: <-- there you go :mrgreen:

I hope I will be a good sheep and follow my Shepherd wherever He leads me. And I trust that if I get lost, He’ll come looking for me. :sunglasses:

The Lamb
By William Blake

Little Lamb who made thee
Dost thou know who made thee
Gave thee life & bid thee feed.
By the stream & o’er the mead;
Gave thee clothing of delight,
Softest clothing wooly bright;
Gave thee such a tender voice,
Making all the vales rejoice!
Little Lamb who made thee
Dost thou know who made thee

     Little Lamb I'll tell thee,
     Little Lamb I'll tell thee!

He is called by thy name,
For he calls himself a Lamb:
He is meek & he is mild,
He became a little child:
I a child & thou a lamb,
We are called by his name.
Little Lamb God bless thee.
Little Lamb God bless thee.

Sonia

To religions, the two main human types are sheep and goats. If you are a sheep, all you can do is be the best sheep you can be. If you are a goat, then be the best possible goat. At the end of the day, it hardly matters to the Godhead as we all reach the same place but for here and now, the sheep should be taught that they do not need be so sheepish. Man was created to stand, not be on his knees before imaginary Gods. The Noble Lie is working too well and the goats of today feel no shame.

How the message that they are potential Gods is taken we cannot know. The goats will not think the way sheep do. My duty as one who knows a truth is to tell it. How it is received is not in my control. My duty is though. As a goat, I can take whatever the sheep say or do, reject or accept.

Regards
DL

“Jesus says the good Shepherd lays down his life for His sheep.”

Only an incompetent and stupid shepherd will die and forget his responsibility to his herd, family and tribe for one sheep.

With him dead, the herd is left at the mercy of the wolves. Only a really stupid shepherd will die for what he was going to fleece and butcher.

Masters do not die for their slaves. He makes the slaves die for him.

Regards
DL

IN the juvenescence of the year came Christ the Tyger (T.S. Elliot)

Tyger Tyger burning bright
In the forest of the night
What Immortal Hand or Eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry

William Blake - last stanza the contrary poem to THE Lamb Sonia quotes above - asdn Blake believed both insights to be true; Christ is both Lamb and Tyger/Lion. Blake make Christ a Tyger because he had actually seen a Tiger(which he spelt Tyger’) in the Royal Zoo at the Tower of London but had never seen a Tiger.

Gnostic Bishop/Episcopus Vagantes it is completely daft to take Christ’s saying about laying down his life for one lost sheep as literal. ON one key level it is hyperbole for God’s excessive generosity to each of us when we are or even just when we feel lost . And why should a master not die for his slave? - so many millions of slaves have been beaten or maltreated to death by masters in World history that a reversal of the tedious schema from time to time is salutary. Even better slaves and masters should meet as people in attempts at bridge building and genuine forgiveness

Mock on, mock on
Voltaire, Rousseau;
Mock on 'tis all in vain
You throw the sands against the wind
It blows them back again

William Blake

And may the Seed Christ reign and the top of the morning to you :smiley:

Dick

Fat chance of that.

Why should a master die for one sheep and let the rest at the mercy of the wolf?

Would you be foolish enough to die for one and allow the rest to slaughtered?

Regards
DL

What man of you having 100 sheep and one goes missing doesn’t leave the 99 behind and go after the one thats lost?

I agree with you that a foolish Master would die for one and allow the rest to be slaughtered, and that is not what Jesus says he will do.

When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself.

Also, Jesus says that no one takes his life from him. He has the authority both to lay it down and take it up again.

But, getting back to the OP, the real problem with all this is the assumption that man created God and that God was to be man’s slave. I don’t believe that, and I’m sure most here would also not agree with that.

God created mankind, and not to be his slave, but to be his children.

Sonia

And his Friends too :slight_smile:

BTW, Dick, I love both those poems. I memorized them both about 25 years ago. :sunglasses:

Sonia

And willing slaves to a wonderful Master? :smiley:

O LORD, I am your servant;
I am your servant, the son of your maidservant.
You have loosed my bonds.
I will offer to you the sacrifice of thanksgiving
and call on the name of the LORD.
I will pay my vows to the LORD
in the presence of all his people,
in the courts of the house of the LORD,
in your midst, O Jerusalem.
Praise the LORD!

:smiley: