Sobornost wrote:I really enjoyed reading that Geoff
alecforbes wrote:I loved the picture of the camp-fire story about Obama!
Carrie76 wrote:Loved it!!:) I left a comment on there too...not sure if you'd rather us leave a comment on the blog or here? hehe Great points you made though and a very interesting topic:) You nailed it with the scapegoat example. I am by NO means a supporter of Obama, but I do know that it isnt ALL his fault, there are others involved also or other people entirely like Bush...but because he seems so disliked right now, its like people feel free to throw it all on him and thats how the truth gets twisted and distorted:(
Jonathan Edwards once wrote: “there is nothing that belongs to Christian experience that is more liable to corrupt mixture than zeal.”
edwardtulane82 wrote:But the way I tend to look at it is that there really are things that are bad, or evil, as it were, which I think are, namely, things that are harmful to others or to one's self, but being able to understand the difference between what is good and what is evil, or what is not good rather, or where there is an absence or simply a lack of good, what is true and what is not true, can be really hard for us sometimes I think, because we don't have very clear vision most of the time about all of that, and only God sees with complete clarity about all of that.
edwardtulane82 wrote:But I think we need to be careful when we say evil is an illusion, because some people might think we're saying that because it's an illusion, something like rape or murder isn't really a big deal, though of course that's not what you're saying at all, I know.
edwardtulane82 wrote:And I think where you, and Steve too, are coming from on this is that the tree of life, or love, should be our guide, because by following the way of love we'll always be in 'the good zone' as it were, and we don't even need to bother with trying to figure out whether something is good or evil, whether it's light or dark, because if love is our guide, then it's all good. And I think that's a 'good' way to look at things, it's just we need to be careful in how we explain things so people don't think we're a few planks short of a barn.
Sobornost wrote:Well Geoff, along with Matt I'm still reading and enjoying too. Really liked the third post on Lucifer b.t.w. - very much so.
One thing that made me stand back when I was reading the second post was this -Jonathan Edwards once wrote: “there is nothing that belongs to Christian experience that is more liable to corrupt mixture than zeal.”
Physician heal thyself? But I do understand that he was a more complex man than 'Sinners in the hands of an Angry God' would suggest.
edwardtulane82 wrote:stuff like natural disasters, that's another thing... what's your take on all of that?
alecforbes wrote:This is excellent, Geoff…really excellent!
I'm following along with great interest.
edwardtulane82 wrote:Really good article, bro
edwardtulane82 wrote:Speaking of Job, have you ever seen this Rob Bell video?
alecforbes wrote:This just gets better and better!
Sobornost wrote:Fascinating post on Azazel Geoff - and I love that quotation from Peter Rollins!
edwardtulane82 wrote:I confess I've gotten behind on your series, bro, I only made it up to the 4th or 5th post I think. I'll try to catch up this weekend
alecforbes wrote:I loved the picture of the camp-fire story about Obama!
I'd honestly never connected the "blame" US presidents receive with scapegoating, but it is too, too true regardless of where one stands on the political spectrum. I really need to read some more Girardian books. (Well, I do have The Jesus Driven Life coming in the mail soon.)
All the best,
Sobornost wrote:Just read the section on Maccabees Geoff - still enjoying it greatly - and it's beautifully written
Melichizedek said:How are you liking Jesus Driven Life? I'm about 60% or so through it, and I think it's phenomenal and very insightful. I think everyone should read it.
alecforbes wrote:Melichizedek said:How are you liking Jesus Driven Life? I'm about 60% or so through it, and I think it's phenomenal and very insightful. I think everyone should read it.
I'm loving it, Tim! About 3/4 done. I agree totally with everyone reading it. Though Hardin's not the greatest stylist, the book is very accessible to non-theologians and his arguments are thorough and well-supported. His presentation of Girard's "mimetic theory" was concise and excellent and I loved the historical discussion of the early church etc. Just phenomenal, as you said!
Melchizedek wrote:Geoff; I started reading through your series last night, and I'm really enjoying it. I'm maybe about halfway through (or less), and I'll be very interested to see the conclusions you draw. Great series; thanks for sharing.
fatherlearningtolove wrote:Melchizedek wrote:Geoff; I started reading through your series last night, and I'm really enjoying it. I'm maybe about halfway through (or less), and I'll be very interested to see the conclusions you draw. Great series; thanks for sharing.
Thank you! The series is finished, I am just publishing one section a day now until I've got all 25 sections published. So if you catch up, bear with me!
By the way, I've been meaning to check out Jesus Driven Life sometime, as well. Hardin worked with Walter Wink - who was a huge influence on my thinking in the area of Satan/Demons - on a section of the "Understanding Spiritual Warfare: Four Views" book, which I put a couple quotes from in my series in the second post.
fatherlearningtolove wrote:I have published the next section - Part 9: Azazel. This section deals with the ancient rite of Atonement and its connection to Satan.
Melchizedek wrote:fatherlearningtolove wrote:I have published the next section - Part 9: Azazel. This section deals with the ancient rite of Atonement and its connection to Satan.
I found this section to be particularly interesting, brilliant and insightful.
a mish-mash of characteristics of other gods plays into this concept, as the gods of chaos were always a mixtures of parts from animals and possibly human parts whom spread chaos and destruction wherever they went.
The interesting factor in this study is that prior to this point, we have mostly examined cases where Satan was an overzealous authority figure who applied the law with a rigid inflexibility. But with the information that he is also an agent of chaos, it seems that the voice of the Accuser may speak the loudest at the extremes of both ends of the spectrum - chaotic lawlessness, and rigid, inflexible authority.
Sobornost wrote:Hi Geoff this reminds me that Girard associates this chaos with the sacrificial crisis in which all distinctions break down as sacrificing rage overtakes the sacrificing mob. Indeed Girard draws attention to an African tribal mask in which there are not only human and animal elements but also organic elements – bits of plants and fields of crops get mixed up with everything else.
Sobornost wrote:I watched a sanitised version of one of these rituals on television a few years ago. It was an ancient Shinto rite enacted by the men of an industrial town in Japan where everything is clean and orderly and no litter is ever dropped. Once a year the men dress up in nothing but loincloths – all social distinctions between bosses and workers are broken down -and get horribly drunk and often hurt each other badly in fights. But with the rising sun order is reborn from chaos in renewed creation and they return to normal life purged. (In former times a real sacrificial victim would have been murdered as part of the rite as part of 'Satan casting out Satan').
I don't want to derail the thread but I was wondering about the same thing in a slightly different fashion while reading The Jesus Driven Life. I certainly think retributive violence needs to be absolutely eliminated, but I'm wondering about something I'd call "restraining force" (as opposed to "violence" I guess...)Geoff said:That is very interesting - I've wondered, as I became more of a pacifist, if indeed there is some level of violence that is necessary. I mean, obviously we want as little violence as possible.
alecforbes wrote:I don't want to derail the thread but I was wondering about the same thing in a slightly different fashion while reading The Jesus Driven Life. I certainly think retributive violence needs to be absolutely eliminated, but I'm wondering about something I'd call "restraining force" (as opposed to "violence" I guess...)
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