The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Did Jesus raise on the "first day of the week"

I’d appreciate that Steve.
The article “What happened in 1933?” reminds me of your comment re Monetary Union/ United Nations and my thoughts on the EU.

Hi John,

I wonder, do you subscribe to the views presented in the article “What happened in 1933?” A small part of it I concur with, but very large parts of it, IMO, are fantasy. I would be happy to discuss this subject in greater depth with you on a dedicated thread.

In brief, I think the 1933 date, as suggested by Derek Walker, is forced and contrived to follow the patterns of AD33 - AD 73, the 40 years of Moses, and the Yom Kipper War of AD1973. He needed to come up with a date and look for a corresponding event in AD1933, and he found the great depression. It is very artificially forced, reminding me of how JW’s and SDA come up with their dates.

The “Cycles of 490 years for Israel” were not 490 years, they were 480 years (I Kings 6:1 - note that the LXX has 430 years). The only 490 year period seems to be Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy. Overall, I love the subject. I have spent a lot of time in the past looking for integrity in the different models being presented. I know a lot of people have been tricked on the subtle nuances of scripture. The Saturday Sabbath being an example.

Steve

The weekly Sabbath day of the Hebrews was clearly the seventh day of the week. Since a new day for the Hebrews began at sundown, the Sabbath day was held from sundown on Friday until sundown on Saturday.

The fact that the Hebrews had a lunar calendar rather than a solar calendar is irrelevant, because, unlike the day, the month, and the year which all relate to the apparent movement of the earth, the moon, and the sun, the week is unrelated to the “movement” of the heavenly bodies. The cycle of 7 days or “weeks” has remained unchanged since the 7 days of creation. It’s true that the beginning of the Sabbath is different at different points of the earth, depending on when sundown occurs, but the 7-day cycle has never changed.

According to R.C.H. Lenski, since the Jews had no names for the weekdays, they designated them with reference to the Sabbath. Thus, “mia ton sabbaton” means “the first day with reference to the Sabbath,” that is, the first day following the Sabbath or, as we would say in current English, “the first day of the week.”

I agree with this explanation.

So in Mark 16:2 the expression “μια των σαββατων” (mia tōn sabbatōn), literally means “first of the weeks” really indicates “the first day with reference to Sabbaths”. So most translators render it “the first day of the week.”

Here are a couple of other references with the same type of usage:

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. (Acts 20:7)

Again the expression is “μια των σαββατων” (mia tōn sabbatōn).

The Pharisee in the temple said the following:

I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get. (Luke 18:12)

Here the expression is:

δις του σαββατου (dis tou sabbatou), literally “twice of the Sabbath”. So did he fast twice on the Sabbath Day? Or did he fast twice in the week?
I think the latter.

The practice of Christians meeting together on Sunday, the first day of the week, was practised as early as that gathering mentioned above in Acts.20:7. Justin Martyr (110-165 A.D.) also mentions this in his “apology” (explanation) to the emperor of the ways of Christians:

And on the day called “Sunday” τῃ του ἡλιου λεγομενη ἡμερα, literally “called the day of the sun”], all who live in cities or in the country, gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits… Apol. ch. 67)

I can’t recall who said this, but one of the early Christians gave the following two reasons why Christians meet on the first day of the week (Sunday) and especially remember the Lord Jesus on that day:

  1. On the first day of creation week, “God made a change in matter”.
  2. On the first day of the week, God raised Jesus from the dead.

This is not true, it is a Jewish myth that mistakenly took root in Christendom. The days “Friday” and “Saturday” did not exist prior to the Julian Calendar. Please show any references to Friday and Saturday in the OT. You cannot because the terms did not exist. They did not exist because it is only on a solar calendar that the days became fixed. The lunar calendar calculated the new week on the appearance of the new moon, and then counted… The seventh day was the sabbath - this was not a Friday-Saturday observance. It was only in the NT period, with the introduction of the solar calendar (and fixed days) that the solar day of Christ’s death and resurrection was registered. This so happened to be a Sunday only on that particular (lunar) month, as each month the days started to be counted afresh on the lunar calendar from each new moon. As the church came to rely on the solar calendar the days became fixed. Prior to then the days were not fixed.

This confusion of calendar days is seen in the first recorded dispute between Polycarp and Anicetus: the Quartodeciman controversy. This was a dispute, in AD155, over the designated day of the resurrection (Easter). Polycarp’s church wanted to follow the Jewish calendar and the Roman church wanted to follow the solar calendar (Sunday), which shows that the solar and lunar calendar produced two entirely different days.

See: gci.org/church/holidays/passover

Steve

Of course the terms did not exist, but the days Friday and Saturday existed, and that’s what I was talking about.

Again, the 7-day cycle of the week, is independent of the sun and the moon. This 7-day cycle existed from the beginning. The early Christians referred to these days as “the first day”, “the second day”, etc. and the last day of the week was “the seventh day”. Again, whether a lunar calendar is used or a solar calendar, there is still an independent 7-day cycle, and the 7th day for the Hebrews was the Sabbath, beginning at sundown. Sundown on the 7th day occurrs regardless of what calendar is followed, or even if NO calendar is followed.

Today, following the Roman system we call the first day of the week “Sunday”. As I pointed out, even Justin Martyr called it “The day of the sun”
Monday— Moon day
Tuesday—Tiw’s day
Wednesday— Wodan’s day
Thurdsay—Thor’s day
Friday—Frige’s day
Saturday—Saturn’s day.

So we see that all days except Sunday and Monday were named after gods.

The seven day cycle was completely dependent on the moon.

See **THE WEEKLY SABBATH IS NOT SATURDAY OR SUNDAY! **

lunarsabbath.info/

Hi Steve
I don’t have time at this instant to raise all the points I wish but just to mention that I am not keen on this phrase in the link:

The lunar cycle is not a fixed constant. It is approximately 29.5 days but varies (in a predictable way) from one lunar month to the next. I assume the article is saying that some weeks would have an extra day (the worship day?) in order to keep in sync with the lunar cycle for Sabbaths. Is this correct?

Hi John,

You are right, there are variables in the length of time of the lunar cycle.

That article I gave was unfortunate, I am sorry. I had mistaken the article for another article dealing with the same subject matter. The substance of the article I gave the link to I do not fully understand where they are coming from.

**Isaiah 66:23 **- “And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the LORD.

The basic premise is, which I think you already agreed with (and Paidion has not) is that the New Moon, wherein the month gets its name (the Bible uses the same Hebrew word for both “new moon” and “month.”), was the start of the month for the sacred Jewish calendar. All of the festivals were related to the New Moon. Saturday and Sunday are fixed days on a solar calendar, whereas the Sabbath was not a fixed day, it was pivotal around the New Moon:

I am surprised that anyone would try to argue against this point. It is fundamental to understanding the lunar calendar. The WIKI article on New Moon states:

The change over from the Jewish lunar calendar to the Saturday Sabbath occurred in the 4th century AD:

For more, see: yrm.org/What_is_a_New_Moon.htm
Note: I have read the above article, but I cannot vouch for their ministry. I have never heard of them.

Steve

The Hebrew observance of “new moons” and their observance of “sabbaths” are two different activities.

I thought maybe there was something I have been missing, and so I read the first link you provided, Stef, and found not a shred of evidence that the Sabbaths were based on the moon or on the lunar calendar. I saw only strong affirmations and a bunch of unrelated data and scriptures. But then you indicated that you had provided a different link from the one you intended.

The word “week” in every encyclopedia or dictionary in which I searched is given the definition of “a seven-day cycle” or something very similar. I have found no historic evidence that the Hebrews meant anything more. I think the week is of divine origin, relating to the seven-day period of creation.

Until I see some evidence that it is related to the revolution of the moon, I must continue with that understanding.

One thing I would like to know, though. Why is it so important to you, Stef, to believe that the week is related to the revolution of the moon?
Does this have a theological significance?

Hi Paidion,

The subject is of little significance to me, other than I know a lot of people who are entangled into divisional sects based on a faulty understanding of the month and new moon, the week and the Sabbath, the solar and lunar calendars, and Saturday worship. I think this is a mistake which can quickly and easily be rectified by understanding more about how the Jewish calendar actually worked. I had a long discussion with a SDA who tried to convince me that Saturday worship was a command, so I decided to invest more time into understanding the lunar calendar. If the bible references of New Moon and the counting of days to the passover, and the references of the Encyclopaedia Judaica, mean nothing to you, then perhaps you will only understand the lunar calendar with much greater care and study.

You may find more details on the significance of the New Moon to the month and Sabbath at this link also:

en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Hebrew_Roots/New_Moon

Steve

I went to the link you provided, Stef, and there was not one sentence indicating that the Sabbath day depended upon the New Moon!
Yes, it mentioned “New moon and Sabbaths”. I was aware of the reference to these in the NT. They are linked together in the sense that both were special holy days.

I appreciated your reference to Encyclopedia Judaica. I had never heard of it before. I accessed it online and looked up Sabbath. There was a lot about the Sabbath but not one clear word about linking it to the Lunar calendar or to the moon. Yes, "New moons AND Sabbaths were mentioned together as they are in the scripture, but there was nothing definite in relating Sabbaths to the new moon.

I did find only the following, but it seems to be merely speculation:

Ok. I was hoping you would have lined the dots on your own. It is difficult to find information on this subject, as almost all information on this subject is associated with a sect of some type which is looking for converts and trying to peddle a religious denomination. I will see if I can help…

There are disputes today whether or not 1. we should still keep the Sabbath, and 2. whether or not the Sabbath is on Saturday or Sunday (or some other day). To the first question I say the answer is NO; we do not need to keep the Sabbath today. My answer for this comes from an analysis of the early church fathers regarding Sabbath keeping, and it was completely absent in the early church. I value their perspective, for this custom would have continued in some way if the Apostles had taught it. The second question…, what day was the Sabbath?, is linked to the first question. We do not need to follow the Sabbath today because we cannot! We cannot because we do not follow the lunar calendar. The Sabbath day is intrinsically attached to the observance of the lunar calendar. If we followed a lunar calendar it would be possible, but God had ordained that the observances of the Jews be abandoned to make way for the gentile inclusion within the church.

Firstly, the command to follow the Sabbath:

Exodus 20:8 says this: “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God.”

Here the Sabbath was determined on a count of days (“the seventh day”), not a fixed day (as in Saturday). Counting seven days from when? This was based on the lunar calendar. On a solar calendar we count seven days in a loop that goes on irrespective of the month or year. The OT Jews did not do this. The Jewish year began with the first sliver of the New Moon following the March equinox. I am sure you would agree that the New Moon following the March equinox does not fall on the same day each year. It was from this day of the New Moon following the vernal equinox that the Passover was determined, and all other Holy days were also counted:

Leviticus 23:1-8
"The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, These are the appointed feasts of the Lord that you shall proclaim as holy convocations; they are my appointed feasts. “Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwelling places. “These are the appointed feasts of the Lord, the holy convocations, which you shall proclaim at the time appointed for them. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight, is the Lord’s Passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work. But you shall present a food offering to the Lord for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work.”

All of these Holy days, including the Sabbath, were counted from the first month (Abib/Nissan), which was the month that the Israelites left Egypt:

Exodus 23:15
“Observe the Festival of Unleavened Bread. As I commanded you, you are to eat unleavened bread for seven days at the appointed time in the month of Abib, because you came out of Egypt in that month.”

There is sometimes a dispute over whether the first month was determined on the New Moon after the vernal equinox or before, as the *Westminster Dictionary of the Bible *confirms:

"The year began with the month of Abib or Nisan (Exodus 12:2, 23:15, Esther 3:7) with the new moon next before or next after the vernal equinox.”

Either way, the facts remain that the New Year was based on the New Moon surrounding the vernal equinox. At this New Moon the counting began. Just as the New Moon does not always fall on a Saturday, neither does the Sabbath always fall on a Saturday. It is impossible. This myth began when the Jews created their solar-lunar calendar in the 4th century AD (Hillel II). Christians, by this time, were disinterested in what the Jews were doing, and the practice of Sabbath observance was finished at the resurrection. It only had relevance to the Passover, which continued to be observed by many churches until Rome had ruled in favor of a solar fixed day observance. Polycarp, the disciple of the Apostle John, still observed the correct day for the passover and resurrection based on the lunar calendar; whereas Anicetus, bishop of Rome, had preferred to abandon the lunar calendar completely. This has become the custom till this day.

It makes little difference to me what you believe. I don’t think it is an integral teaching of scripture one way or the other… I just think that accuracy is preferred to error. That is my only interest here. (see also scripturalsabbath.com/sabbath_calculation.html for a diagram showing how the counting was achieved.

Steve

I’ve not looked closely at this date yet so I cannot say that I subscribe to it as yet.

I’m interested how you come up with cycles of 480 years. The book of Kings suggests 490 years from the Exodus to the dedication of the Temple. I don’t think that the beginning of the building of the Temple is more of a ‘milestone’ in Jewish History, far more, the completion and dedication which gives the spiritually relevant 490 years.
490 years is not only the number of forgiveness as related by Christ (70x7) but is also the completion of ten jubilees. 480 has no significance to my knowledge.

1.) Yes, the scriptural accounts don’t necessarily in themselves indicate specific days of the week.

2.) Nevertheless at the beginning of the 2nd century there is strong evidence that Christians were coming together on Sunday, the first day of the Roman week, to worship. This is not ironclad evidence that the tomb was found empty on Sunday morning (itself a slightly different question than when Jesus was raised, which might have been any time after sundown Saturday night), but whatever weight it has leans in that direction. Whereas, I don’t know of any early testimony to another Roman day. (Most of our days are named after Norse deities, not Roman, of course.)

3.) Consequently, regardless of when non-Christian Jews shifted over to a Saturday-sabbath standard instead of following the lunar calendar, a significant body of Christians had made the switch already before the day of Justin Martyr, for whatever reason. If it’s a myth (in the non-historical sense), it’s a myth of the late 1st or early 2nd century, not the 4th.

4.) I myself should qualify better when writing on the topic, that the events might not have taken place anchored around a Roman/modern weekend.

5.) The discussion so far hasn’t accounted for the emergency provision for an early Passover service, where the head of a household (and/or a rabbi) can hold it one day early if they’re expecting a battle on the next day. I take a stab at factoring this in, for a three part series at the Cadre Journal this past Easter. In order to avoid adding more complexity to an already complex situation, I just didn’t talk about the possibility that the lunar cycle didn’t synch up the sabbath with the Roman version of Friday night to Saturday night that year. I would have brought it up to anyone trying to hang some kind of necessary behavior on the dating, though.

Hi John,

I too would be interested where you come up with 490 years for Kings. 1 Kings 6:1 says: “In the **four hundred and eightieth year **after the Israelites came out of Egypt.” I don’t know of any reference to 490 years for the same period??? The breakdown of the 480 years is as follows:

Exodus to Promised Land-----40 yrs (Exod 16:35)
Promised Land to Saul-------360 yrs
Reign of King Saul-------------40 yrs (Acts 13:21)
Reign of King David-----------40 yrs (1 Kings 2:11)
480 yrs

Promised land to Saul has varying opinions on this Chronology. Some have just added additional years to accommodate the chronology model they prefer. Note, too, that the Septuagint says 440 years (I mistakenly said 430 years in another post). From my own personal research I believe that the 440 years is the accurate date for 1 Kings 6:1, but in either case the 490 years is absent from both versions. As far as I know, the only reference to 490 years is within the 70 weeks prophecy, which is very abstract for using it as a pattern. The pattern for 480 years, however, can be traced to the cycles of 12 x 40. 12 generations of 40 years is 480 years. Some people place a larger significance on this, I am not certain. I once looked into this pattern but I found the evidence inconclusive. (There are other references to periods of over 400 years found in the following: Genesis 15:13; Acts 7:6; Galatians 3:17; Exodus 12:40).

Steve

Hi Steve, I’m not sure if we are talking at cross purposes. I think I agree with almost everything you say.
Perhaps you could answer this question for me:
How many years elapsed between the Exodus and the Dedication Celebration for Solomon’s Temple?

It depends whether you go by the LXX date of 440 years, or the MT date of 480 years for the beginning of the Temple construction. It then again depends on when you date the dedication after the Temple was built - 7 years, or after the final specifications were completed - 11 years. It was in either the 7th or 11th year. The LXX date is either 447 years, or 451 years; the MT date is either 487 years, or 491 years - depending which time you choose for the dedication, and which translation you choose as your 1 Kings date (LXX or MT). The evidence strongly suggests (IMO) that the LXX dating is correct.

1 Kings 6:37, 38

Steve

Hi Steve
Yes. If we stick to the MT date then the following theory seems (to me) to carry a great deal of weight:
Firstly, the time when the building of the Temple was started is NOT the momentous date. The momentous date is the date which separates a time of ‘no Temple’, from the time ‘have a Temple and God’s presence is now there’.
So the 480 years is only a number along the way. What is of vital importance is the date of 1 Kings 8:10 where the ark of the Covenant was placed into the inner sanctuary and God took up His dwelling there, manifest by the Shekinah cloud/Glory filling the House.
Once we have established the actual event we need to date, then we can proceed.
1 Kings 6:38 tells us that this was in the seventh month, and yet the completion of the Temple occurred in the eighth month, therefore we definitely know that Solomon delayed the Ceremony for at least 11 months. This slightly adjusts the dates you have given in your previous post to the following:
The Ceremony occurred somewhere between 488 and 491 years after the Exodus.
The Exodus (according to God’s Divine timing) occurred when all slaves were freed - the Great year of Jubilee.
We know that Jubilee years occur every 49 years. We know that the (once/twice in a lifetime) ‘year of Jubilee’ occurred 490 years after the Exodus. We also know that Solomon delayed the opening Ceremony from 487 to somewhere between 488 and 491. I think it entirely reasonable, (even ‘almost certain’) that Solomon chose the Temple dedication to occur in the year of Jubilee.

The 490 cycle is extremely important. It is not true that it only occurs in Daniels prophecy but even if this WERE the case, we are talking about God’s timing to the most momentous occasion in the History of humankind - the death and resurrection of God made man. This time cycle surely has to be highly significant. Personally I see much less significance in 12x40.

P.S. with reference to your previous post - just one very minor but vital correction “in the eleventh year” means that ten years have passed (not 11) which gives you (in your post) the specific date of 490 (not 491). c.f. we are in the 21st century which means 20 centuries have past not 21]

Good post, John.

I know there are many who propose the Jubilee aspect, and I probably should look into it further. The weakness of the argument, if any, is that it needs to be applied as a formula on very minimal grounds to do so. The other weakness is that the body of evidence supports a Septuagint chronology in 1 Kings, not MT. I could detail some of that evidence if it would be helpful.

I concede that I might be wrong, as I think that the Jubilee is relevent somewhere in God’s chronology - I have just not yet determined where?

Steve

Hi Steve
I have to admit, that although I have put the case for what I have read (on that previous link), I have not studied it enough to be committed to it nor to dismiss alternative viewpoints. What I am confident in is that God has left the faithful information which, if we have enough faith, will be revealed to us in due course.
I’d be interested in what you make of the ebook “Daniel’s 70 weeks” (note that each chapter is listed backwards on the webpages - starting with the last appendix and ending with the introduction, so you’ll have to move to webpage 3 to start the book)
Derek Walker is an orthodox evangelical teacher.
oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk/inde … s-70-weeks