HE didn’t justify the killing of heretics. He advocated persecution through fines and imprisonment against the Donatists (who paradoxically were refusing to take back Christians who had cracked under persecution - so were being too severe). His teacher Ambrose had been shocked by the first burnings of heretics by Christians. However, Augustine did give a systematic and authoritative justification of persecutory measures - and of ECT to boot. Well that’ what I remember from the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church articles (always a good and reliable source)

Hi Andrew,
You said:

So true! In the family I mentioned who owned slaves, two or three generations later they fought on the Union side in the American Civil War. (Of course that brings up the issue of war/pacifism etc.) I agree with you and Kate that our own complicity in modern slavery is so disheartening and overwhelming. I am so looking forward to your thoughts on how we can address this scourge and “slowly chip away” at it (and end or minimize our own complicity).

P.S. I’m really enjoying some of Alister Pate’s blog posts! I echo Kate in wishing there was a “Pub Church” where I live.

Yes, Steve – very much so!

And Andrew, please tell us what we can do. I think we all want to help.

I, too, am shocked by the use of violence to control other christians thinking. There are people on this forum who would have been burnt at the stake if they were living in the 4th century. This is why I believe that the church took a detour off the path from the 4th century.

I really need to study up on that 4th century, it sounds like a fascinating time, and a time of great consequence for the Christianity that came out of it. Steve do you know a good study source for that period?

There are a lot of book written from and about this period. Some that I have read and found useful are:

1. The Jesus Wars, by Philip Jenkins

2. AD 381, by Charles Freeman

3. Ecclesiastical History, by Theodoret

4. Ecclesiastical History, by Socrates Scholasticus

5. Ecclesiastical History, by Philostorgius

6. Conflicts of Conscience and Law in the Fourth-Century Church, by Hilary of Poitiers

Good. I’ll check them out. I was completely oblivious to the importance of that time before signing on here. Thanks.

You’re welcome Dave. Two of the Ecclesiastical Histories are available online:

3. Ecclesiastical History, by Theodoret
   newadvent.org/fathers/2702.htm

4. Ecclesiastical History, by Socrates Scholasticus
   newadvent.org/fathers/2601.htm

Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History is also available online, but that book focuses on previous centuries.

I second Steve and Cindy’s words that I look forward to hearing about how Christians can chip away at modern slavery. Please share, Andrew!

I second Kate’s seconding

I found another book online for the 4th century history, Dave. It is two books in 1; Sozomen’s Ecclesiastical History and Philostorgius’ Ecclesiastical History:

hourofthetime.com/1-LF/November2012/Hour_Of_The_Time_11042012-The_Ecclesiastical_History_Of_Sozomen_And_Philostorgius-1855.pdf

Sozomen and Philostorgius give two very different accounts of the 4th century by two opposing historians - Sozomen is ‘T’ trinitarian - Philostorgius is ‘t’ trinitarian. It is so true that “History is written by the victors” (Winston Churchill).

Steve

Hi all, posted up a little account of Saint Nicholas of Myra today. Not to be a negative nancy, but I think it’s a tad disappointing that impoverished people, who may have had a friend and patron saint in ol’ Nick, have lost him to pretty excessive indulgences. Nevertheless, Saint Nicholas and Christmas is not without great import to our faith and life: God placed all of his hope in a terribly weak, dependent human baby, born in the very midst of great darkness — persecution, genocide, tyranny and poverty. And that has motivated otherwise small people like Saint Nicholas, as it should to us, to give greatly to those still amidst those very dark shadows. Godspeed to you all.

"]Truly He taught us to love one another;
His law is love and His gospel is peace.
Chains shall He break for the slave is our brother;
And in His name all oppression shall cease.
Sweet hymns of joy in grateful chorus raise we,
Let all within us praise His holy name.

For those who were interested, I’ve finished my short blog series (a week late ) with some anti-slavery options for most Christians. There are many more options for professionals but the suggestions here are as general and accessible as possible.

Andrew

Wonderful, Andrew!
Thanks you so much! I missed your last post for some reason and that was excellent as well. I’ll be going back and checking out the links in your blog-post and try and download the app as well. Keep fighting the good fight!

Thanks again,

Steve

After doing a search, I came up with this group, based in California (USA). Anyone know anything about these people? notforsalecampaign.org/

Here’s another link: NightLight and a book I just got last night for my Kindle: notforsalecampaign.org/shop/not-for-sale-book/. I’m on page 48 of 254 and it’s . . . I don’t know what to say exactly . . . pretty earth shattering. The author states it’s his intent that it be a handbook for modern abolitionists. So far there haven’t been a lot of tips that I would personally be able to implement just now, but I’m only 17% in, and I’m glad I bought it regardless.

Another link: International Justice Mission

This has been a fascinating page to read, and I do agree I actually think that right now global indebtedness and the indentured servitude it brings to whole people and nations, and the enforced poverty is one of the, if not the number one moral crisis facing the world today. And what is frightening is that the arguments used by those against debt relief for the third world mirrors the pro-slavery and anti-abolitionist language used in the 18th and 19th centuries, which I don’t think is such a coincidence given they both are systems forcing people into enslaving and de-humanizing lifestyles. We need more Gregory’s of Nyssa coming forth from the Church to speak truth to power and business today (after all, it is interesting that some of the same banks who have argued that it doesn’t promote responsible behaviour to let groups and countries in say Africa or South America etc off their debt were fine with being bailed out of their debt when the financial crisis struck - Caesar takes care of his friends -).

Anyway I shall get off my soapbox, it’s just something that has angered me increasingly more recently (along with how the poor are being increasingly stigmatized in my own country, I don’t how it is for you guys outside the UK). But I shall look more into the links you guys have put up and look to ways I can improve my own living to make sure I can make the most positive contributions to working to bring as much freedom to God’s children as I can .

Thanks!