The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Mythology and the Bible

The book “The Origins of Pagan Idolatry” by Faber he states that the true religion was corrupted by Nimrod. Since the people at that time were only a couple generations from Noah, the corruption couldn’t be completely blatant. The peoples connection to God through the past world(s) is Noah and his 3 sons, and Adam and his 3 sons. What they did then was deify (or demonize as he calls it) Adam, Cain, Able, Seth. These then transmigrated to become Noah, Ham, Japeth, and Shem. Adam=Noah, Seth=Shem. The Hindu’s call them menu or manu (where we get our word man). In their cosmogony then Adam becomes the god who all of creation is formed out of which is the story we see in the pagan religions. His sons are all a representation of him, or they resolve into him. Then at the end of that world it is destroyed by a deluge where only the new menu is saved, but what is actually happening is the god is dying (representing the world), and he is put into an ark, or a cow, or a lotus, or an egg, and then is reborn, which then creates the new age. This happens over and over, in cycles of successive worlds. What you’re left with are trinities of gods that are really an emination of Adam/Noah the father, Odin=Uranus=Jupiter=Atum (sounds like adam). the trinity is Isis, Osiris,Horus represent his children. since the father god was originally a hermaphrodite (male and female he created them) the term hermaphrodite is hermes+aphrodite. so having a woman in there is no big whoop, and really the male and female gods all are really just a part of the father/mother god=Adam=menu=Atum=Brahm.

His idea of how it all began is that after the flood originally people would work fairly harmoniously together, but eventually a politically minded person would arise, and would rather subjugate people than work for a living. He would likely be a hunter (Nimrod) since he could hone his people killing skills on animals. Eventually people would start to revolt so he would have to create an armed force, likely from fellow tribesman (Cucrapes), and they would train by hunting animals. Eventually this first king would realize that force isn’t the best way to control his subjects so he would invent religion to continue his subjugation. This would require priests, also likely from his tribe also. What you would be left with is a tribe of warrior priests controlling the rest of humanity. The other tribes would become merchant/artizan class or worker class. The caste system is born. Then as the people dispersed to other parts of the world they would go as tribes, but with a nucleus of warrior priests to rule them.

thus the pagan religion was created at babel and propagated through the rest of the world, with only minor changes between cultures.

askelm.com/doctrine/d030301.htm In this article, he states that the pagan deities were biblical patriarchs.

"Take for example the ancient pagan god Cronus. This early Phoenician author Sanchoniathon states that Cronus went about the world establishing settlements and colonies. He gave the best part of Greece to his daughter Athena. But he did more than that. Sanchoniathon said, “Cronus offered up his only son as a sacrifice and circumcised himself, and forced his allies to do the same.”

“For Cronus, whom the Phoenicians call Il [the word “Il” is phonetically the Semitic “God” or sometime “Bull”] a man who after his death was deified and instated in the planet which now bears his name.”

The particular planet that the Phoenicians called “Cronus” was the one the Romans referred to as “Saturn.” It was well known that the day of Saturn was Saturday (the weekly Sabbath of the Jews). And note this. Sanchoniathon went on in his description of Cronus by saying that one of his sons was called Ieoud — clearly a corrupt take-off on the Israelitish tribe of “Judah.”
Sanchoniathon said that a man by the name of Hypsuranius (a name signifying High-Heaven) took up an abode in the city of Tyre.

“And he fell into enmity with his brother Usous, who first made clothing for the body of the skins of the wild beasts which he could catch.”

It is plain that this Usous of the Phoenicians is the biblical “Esau” — the brother of Jacob. Note that the Bible says that Esau was a hairy man (like that of an animal), and that Jacob received the blessings and birthright of Esau by deceiving his father by putting on animal skins (Genesis 27). Even the prestigious Dictionary of Religion and Ethics (vol. XI. p. 179) states that there is no question but that this Usous within the Phoenician pantheon was the biblical “Esau.”

“Sanchoniathon said that the god Usous (Esau) was the one who taught the Phoenicians the art of ship-building and navigation. The other name for Esau was Edom (meaning “Red”). The Greek name for “Red” was Erythras, and it was recognized in ancient times that a King Erythras was one who made sailing vessels. 7 The Red Sea near Egypt and also the arm of the Indian Ocean called the Persian Gulf was named after this King Erythras (Edom). Usous was the one who inspired the Phoenicians on the Mediterranean to do the same. Really, both were the same man! Jewish beliefs also thought that Esau helped to colonize Tyre and that his descendants became some of the Phoenicians who settled North Africa and parts of Spain. 8”

THE HISTORICAL BUDDHA. Buddhism originated in Northern India around 500 BC. It sprang from the teachings of the Historical Buddha – an actual historical personage. Before he became a Buddha (literally “enlightened one”), he was known as Gautama Siddhartha, or Prince Siddhartha, for he was born the son of King Suddhodana of the Sakya Clan, whose people then inhabited an area of India now located in present-day Nepal. His family name was Gautama and his first name was Siddhartha. Shaka is the Japanese abbreviation of the Sanskrit term Sakyamuni, which literally means “Sage of the Sakya.” In China, his contemporaries were Confucius and Lao-tzu (the founder of Chinese Taoism), and slightly later in the West comes Plato (approximately 427 - 347 BC).
buddhist-artwork.com/statues … tuary.html

The Ikshvaku dynasty, in Puranic literature, was a mythical dynasty founded by** Ikshvaku, grandson of Vivasvan or Surya** and son of Vaivasvata Manu. This dynasty is also known as Sūryavaṁśa (the Solar dynasty). The important personalities belonging to this royal house are Harishchandra, Dilīpa, Sagara,[1] Raghu, Rama and Prasenajit. Although, both the Hindu Puranas and the Buddhist texts include Shuddodhana, Gautama Buddha and Rahula in their accounts of the Ikshvaku dynasty,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikshvaku_dynasty

“Suryavanshi” or Suryavamsa means a person belonging to this dynasty. This clan was the oldest and biggest Kshatriya/Chattari clan of India which was also known by many synonyms as Adityavamsha (आदित्यवंश), Mitrawamsha (मित्रवंश), Arkawamsha (अर्कवंश), Raviwamsha (रविवंश), etc. The early Suryavanshis considered Sun-god (‘Surya’, ‘Aditya’ or ‘Arka’) as their kul-devta (clan God) and mainly practised sun-worship.The capital of Solar race was ancient Ayodhya.The clan founder,** Vivasvan or Vaivaswat Manu, also known as Arka-tanaya (अर्क तनय) or son of Arka (Surya), is supposed to have lived coeval with the origin of the world. **The name Vivaswan literally means master of the rays. That is, The Sun or Sun God. The first historically important king of this dynasty was Vivaswan’s grandson Ikshvaku, so the dynasty is also known as the Ikshvaku dynasty.[1]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suryavansha

ksh=kush, kshatriya, ikshvaku
rama is supposedly the previous incarnation of buddha
kshatriya=kush these are still the warrior caste in india (remember the cush were warrior/priests)
the sun-god lived coeval with the origin of the world, and one name is arka --> ark?
surya= zero in chaldee -->zero-asshur–>zoroaster

I am fully aware, that Sir William Jones places the origin of Buddhism no higher than about a thousand years before the Christian era; that he supposes the system to have been introduced by a younger Buddha, whom he distinguishes from that earlier Buddha who is placed by the Hindoo records in the age of the deluge; and that he conceives the younger Buddha or Sacya to be the Sesac of Scripture, whom he makes to conquer the whole country between Egypt and Hindostan and to promulge wherever he was successful the then novel doctrine of the Buddhists. To this opinion I am unable to assent. The name indeed of Sesac is doubtless a name of Buddha, for Se-Sac denotes the illustrious Saca; and this fatal resemblance, as it has been not ill termed, seems to have been the chief thing, or at least one chief thing that gave rise to the opinion. Such a coincidence of names however will by no means prove the point: Sesac, if I mistake not, received his appellation merely in honour of the god Saca or Se-Saca, agreeably to a custom very generally prevalent in the gentile world; [1] and, though I pretend not positively to say how far he might have pushed his conquests, there is certainly no scriptural evidence that he passed beyond the limits of Judea. He is simply represented, as taking the fenced cities of Rehoboam and as pillaging the temple of Jerusalem, and then to all appearance as returning with his booty into Egypt. [2] Hence there seems to me, so far as we have any authentic account of his actions, to be just as little reason for identifying him with a
1 Thus Nebuchadnezzar, Esar-Haddon, and Belshazzar, were all called after the gods venerated by their fathers.
2 See 2 Chron. xii. 1-9.
{Page 88} younger Sacya who was the first promulgator of Buddhism, as with the fabulously victorious Sesostris. The evidence for the remote antiquity of Buddhism rests upon exactly the same foundation as that for the remote antiquity of Brahmenism. There is scarcely a country, in which we do not find both systems more or less blended together: and Buddha, as much as Siva or Osiris, under his various names of Buddha, Saca, Taut, Teut, Thoth, Bod, Wod, Hermaya, Hermes, or Mercolis, has been worshipped from Japan in the east to Ireland in the west. The theory of Sir William Jones is inadequate to account for this circumstance: no conquests, which a king of Egypt could make, and which after all it remains to be proved that he did make; could have spread his name and novel theology over the face of the whole globe; I say name, because, if I do not misunderstand Sir William, Buddha first received his title of Sacya from the circumstance of Sesac’s being venerated as a new incarnation of Buddha. This opinion however, if it be the opinion of that able writer, is most certainly an error.** The appellation Saca or compoundedly Se-Saca existed before the time of the Egyptian prince, and was communicated from the god to a great tribe of his Cuthic worshippers, who were thence called Sacas or Sachim or Saxons. Some of these Sachim formed a part of the Indian Shepherd- kings; who once conquered Egypt, and who afterwards founded the kingdom of African Ethiopia or Cusha-dwip without: for we find a detachment of them expressly mentioned with their brethren the Cushim, as serving in the army of Sesac. [1] If then there was a whole tribe of Sachim or Sacas in the days of Sesac, both the name and the worship of Saca must inevitably have been prior to that prince. Thus, in whatever light the question be viewed, we cannot, I think, ascribe a more recent origin to Buddhism than the dispersion from Babel.**
1 2 Chron. xii. 3. The word is expressed by our translators Sukkiim after the Masoretic punctuation; but it is just as properly pronounced Sachiim, which is the plural form of Sach or Sachi. In our language the plural of Sach would be Sachs.


The twenty two Buddhas, like the fourteen Menus, may all be reduced to two, Adam and Noah: for Buddha is the very same person as Menu. A later Buddha is described as living at the time of the flood, as being the sovereign prince in the belly of the symbolical fish, and as marrying Ila the daughter of Menu-Satyavrata who was preserved with seven companions in an ark when the whole earth was inundated. But Menu is also said to have espoused his own daughter: therefore Buddha must be the same as Menu. Accordingly, as Menu and his three sons are allowed to be an incarnation of the Hindoo Unity and Trimurti: so Buddha is at once confessed to be an Avatar of Vishnou, and pronounced to be no other than the mystic Om by which name the Trimurti is wont to be designated. Buddha however is here acknowledged not to be any real and proper god: and his diluvian character proves him to be the patriarch Noah.

This kind of stuff is sooo fascinating to me! Thanks for posting so much on it, Redhot! A lot of this stuff is what I’d like to ask the LORD when I’m in heaven-or get to watch the replay, so to speak :slight_smile: Then again, maybe in the presence of His glory this stuff won’t seem so interesting. I’m gonna betray my good frozen-chosen leanings and ask you…how do you see the Nephillim, pyramids on different continents, stuff like that? I read a book a while back called Fingerprints of the Gods. Now I lean towards more of ancient civilisations type of history, not the Sumer 7,000 BC is where it all began, but further. Keep in mind, I’m not gonna die on the hill for this stuff, and I haven’t fleshed out any doctrinal contradictions-so I’m ok with speculation in this arena. Thanks again!

Matt

Matt, at this moment (and I swing wildly from side to side) I am in an allegorical phase, so I see the nephilim as the sons of seth and the daughters of cain. But I really don’t know, thats one of the reasons I rehashed this topic (I posted this stuff and more on tentmakers board a while ago). I was getting deep into this and it was causing me all kinds of disturbance.

Since I was probably 12 or so I have had a question about the cherubim, and the symbolism of the tabernacle. I remember reading about them, and that they along with bulls are found throughout temples in the ancient middle east, and that the tabernacle and its furnishings was quite similar to egyptian, babylonian temples. Well this bothered me, seeing as I was brought up to believe that all that was of the devil, and why would God use things that are devilish. I never found a good answer and this created doubts when people would claim the bible is myth.

Then when I was in my early 20’s I found this thing called the internet. And I read more about the nephilim, fallen angels, aliens, illuminati, etc etc. I got pretty deep into conspiracy, until my mentor reminded me “God is in control”. I put these things away again. And frankly there were too many doubts going on that I couldn’t face at that time, because well I didn’t want to be wrong, or led astray and then go to hell.

Then last year I was given the revelation of Universal Reconciliation and all the sudden I was able to search out other lines of thought without fear.

The hypothesis I had been developing over all those years was the cherubim were the inspiration for the pagan gods. Since Adam and Eve would have seen them, they would have surely told their children about them, and on down the line. Notice God didn’t have to describe them to Moses, He just told him to fashion them. Then I read that the Israelites worshipped the cherubim, they even named them Moloch and Chiun, Jupiter and Saturn respectively, Stephen mentions them in his speech before he’s martyred, which comes from Amos 4 IIRC. Now that really got me going down the path. I spent a lot of time researching this stuff, and it was starting to become an obsession almost (I tend to be an all or nothing guy).

I was looking for more biblical witness, and thought of the verse " we see through a glass darkly" so I looked it up. I was given to see something with eyes to see, and ears to hear:

1Co 13:12 For at present we are observing by means of a mirror, in an enigma, yet then, face to face. At present I know out of an instalment, yet then I shall recognize according as I am recognized also."

Jas 1:22 Now become doers of the word, and not only listeners, beguiling yourselves."
Jas 1:23 For if anyone is a listener to the word and not a doer, this one simulates a man considering the face he inherited in a mirror;"
Jas 1:24 for he considers himself and has come away, and immediately forgot what kind he was."
Jas 1:25 Now he who peers into the perfect law, that of freedom, and abides, not becoming a forgetful listener, but a doer of the work, this one will be happy in his doing."

These are the two instances of the word mirror(esoptron) in the bible.

esoptron <2072>

esoptron esoptron

Pronunciation: es’-op-tron
Origin: from 1519(Eis= In or into) and a presumed derivative of
3700 Optanomai:

to gaze (i.e. with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable; and
thus differing from 991, which denotes simply voluntary observation;

and from 1492, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual
vision; while 2300, and still more emphatically its intensive 2334,
signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and 4648 a
watching from a distance):-appear, look, see, shew self.

If you look at Optanomai most incidences of this word are seeing the risen Lord, here are some other examples:

Act 16:9
A vision appeared to Paul during the night: A Macedonian man was standing there 2 urging him, 3 “Come over 4 to Macedonia 5 and help us!”

1Ti 3:16
And we all agree, 1 our religion contains amazing revelation: 2 He 3 was revealed in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, 4 seen by angels, proclaimed among Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

1Jo 3:2
Dear friends, we are God’s children now, and what we will be 1 has not yet been revealed. We 2 know that 3 whenever 4 it 5 is revealed 6 we will be like him, because 7 we will see him just as he is. 8

Rev 1:7
(Look! He is returning with the clouds, 1 and every eye will see him, even 2 those who pierced him, 3 and all the tribes 4 on the earth will mourn because 5 of him. This will certainly come to pass! 6 Amen.) 7

Rev 11:19
Then 1 the temple of God in heaven was opened and the ark of his covenant was visible within his temple. And there were flashes of lightning, roaring, 2 crashes of thunder, an earthquake, and a great hailstorm. 3

Rev 12:1
Then 1 a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars. 2

1Co 13:12 For at present we are observing by means of a mirror, in an enigma, yet then, face to face. At present I know out of an instalment, yet then I shall recognize according as I am recognized also."

So the word for mirror is to gaze at something remarkable INSIDE. What do we see but an enigma ( an obscure saying, enigma, riddle an obscure thing). We look with natural eyes, and what do we see? We hear a riddle

Jas 1:23 For if anyone is a listener to the word and not a doer, this one simulates a man considering the face he inherited in a mirror;"
Jas 1:24 for he considers himself and has come away, and immediately forgot what kind he was."
The word for kind is genesis. He forgot what his origin is

Eze 28:12 `Son of man, lift up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, And you have said to him:Thus said the Lord Yahweh:You are sealing up a measurement, Full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."
Eze 28:13 In Eden, the garden of Elohim, you have been, Every precious stone your covering, Ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle, and gold, The workmanship of your tabrets, and of your pipes, In you in the day of your being produced, have been prepared."
Eze 28:14 You [are] an anointed cherub who is covering, And I have set you in the holy mount, Elohim you have been, In the midst of stones of fire you have walked up and down."
Eze 28:15 Perfect [are] you in your ways, From the day of your being produced, Till perversity has been found in you."
Eze 28:16 By the abundance of your merchandise They have filled your midst with violence, And you do sin, And I thrust you from the mount of Elohim, And I destroy you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire."

When I think of enigma or riddle I think of the Sphinx (the enigma of the Sphinx was very well known). What is a sphinx? A cherub? (I realize this takes a slight jump and doesn’t have total biblical support)

So to put it all together:
We look through a mirror with natural eyes trying to see the heavenly, if we hear the word and it does not cause the fruit=action, when we look in the mirror (gaze at something remarkable INSIDE) , we see an enigma (which is really something you hear). The sphinx tells the riddle, Sphinx=Cherub. The riddle is that we are the cherub who’s lost his covering. Our covering was precious stones (the word precious is only used of stones that cover the temple, or the breast plate, stone=chief cornerstone) If we don’t have eyes to see, if the word hasn’t vivified us, when we try to gaze into heaven all we see is our fleshly covering, we forget our genesis (where was mans origin?). We see beast=cherub with 4 faces (the word for cherub hear happens to appear 66 times). And so what do we do but worship the beast=cherub=carnal mind=our false covering=the veil covered in cherubs. Our original covering was the precious cornerstone.

Eze 28:12 `Son of man, lift up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, And you have said to him:Thus said the Lord Yahweh:You are sealing up a measurement, Full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
"Eze 43:10 "As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, so that they will be ashamed of their sins and measure the pattern.
this word for measure/pattern only occurs in the above 2 instances

The pattern of the temple with Christ who is our covering, full of wisdon and perfect in beauty

2Co 3:18 Now we all, with uncovered face, mirroring the Lord’s glory, are being transformed (transfigured) into the same image, from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the spirit."
this is the only other incidence of mirror in the nt with the same name base as optanomai

When our face is covered we see the enigma, when its uncovered we see the Lord’s glory.

I read an article which I don’t remember where that was, that they found in a cave that the sphinx was a symbol of the two ends of the zodiac. That it symbolized the connection of the lion and virgo IIRC. The cherubim are the N, S, E, W, points of the zodiac, the encampment of Israel had the 4 heads of the cherubim, Judah-lion, Dan-Eagle, Ephraim-bull, Reuban-man. They “covered the tabernacle” by surrounding it. The cherubim were embroidered all over the veil, which we know to be Jesus’ flesh. The cherubim on the mercy seat covered. The cherubim guarded the way to the garden, which is the holy of holies. The cherubim carried the glory of the Lord in Ezekiel, we carry the glory of the Lord. The 4 gospels correspond to one head of the cherubim, those gospels “contain” the Word.

Now if you take all that + the idea that all the pagan gods were just men starting with Nimrod (Faber’s Origins). The grandest idol of all is self.

Back to the original question, the nephilim were offspring of the sons of God. We are the sons of God. “All creation waits with eager longing for the revealing (unveiling! the veil is the covering/cherubim) of the sons of God.” That word revealing is the same word as used in “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him” Rev 1:1.

Sorry I couldn’t copy this pdf I made, and get it to format right, so I’ve attached it. The bottom 2 pages are the most relevant I think, the top page is just following word likenesses, and unless you’ve read Origins of Pagan Idolatry it may not make much sense (probably like my last post :smiley: )

It mentions Thoth, or Hermes/Mercury, which Faber says is Kush, Noah’s grandson, Nimrods father, he was supposedly the one who created the false religion, and if you look at the myth behind Mercury it makes sense.

Nebo=thoth, Mt. Nebo is where Moses died. He is the scribe god.

Nimrod may be an insult and not his actual name. MR in Hebrew is rebel, as in Mary which means rebellion.
Mars MR, Mercury MR
cush saca idol.pdf (171 KB)

Thanks again, redhot! Good grief, the typing alone is to be commended…let alone the research!

iscast.org/journal/articles/ … ything.pdf

This seems relevant to the topic. Thanks to Alex for posting on Facebook

Good stuff!

Awesome, Mag!
Thanks for posting everything!

The mixture and worship of all the ancient “gods” is exactly what my family’s pagan roots are all about. I have wondered about it a lot too. It is confusing sometimes. I had thought that while the true God used bulls,etc in temples, the idol worship made the bulls gods. So they worship the created thing instead of the Creator. Kind of weird how with Yehovah, bulls were scarified for the sin of the people but, in idol worship the people are sacrificed to the bull gods.
I love what you are saying and it seems like we’re searching out many of the same questions. Thanks again!

This passage below clearly states that Yehovah does not want his people to do as the pagans did to their gods and say they are doing the same to Yehovah. There are many similarities, as you have so brilliantly stated above, Mag. What does anyone think of that? Is it still important for us today? Are there things we do “like the pagans”? Is that acceptable? Just wondering what others think.

These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth. Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. Ye shall not do so unto the LORD your God.
(Deu 12:1-4)

I’m glad you guys like this topic, I hope someone can make sense of it all, I surely can’t :laughing:

We are supposed to be entering, or have entered the age of Aquarius (cue music: “when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with mars, then peace will fill the planet and love will fill the stars”)

I guess the zodiac/mazzaroth signs have planets associated with them. Aquarius’ planet is Uranus, or Ouranous in greek. This is the word for heaven in the new testament. The kingdom of heaven(ouranous) is at hand.

Aquarius is the water bearer, its a man pouring out a pitcher of water. “I will pour out my spirit on all flesh”, water=spirit btw.

John 7:37On the last and greatest day of the Feast (feast of tabernacles), Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, asc the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Mt. Hermon was likely the place where the transfiguration took place. It is right near Caesarea Phillipi.

Psalm 133
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
2It is like the precious oil upon the head, Coming down upon the beard, Even Aaron’s beard, Coming down upon the edge of his robes.
3It is like the dew of Hermon Coming down upon the mountains of Zion; For there the LORD commanded the blessing—life forever.

SOS 4:8
Come with me from Lebanon, my bride,
come with me from Lebanon.
Descend from the crest of Amana,
from the top of Senir, the summit of Hermon,
from the lions’ dens
and the mountain haunts of the leopards.

Hermon is also called siyon, although the spelling is quite different, listen to the pronunciation of siyon and zion here:

blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=H6726

blueletterbible.org/lang/lex … ongs=H7865

end Biblical portion begin mythology connections, I don’t know if any of the following is relevant

Baal Hermon is also called Baal Gad, the word Gad is pronounced god, and is possibly where we get our word god from. Gad was the god of fortune, and was associated with Jupiter. Jupiter is also one of the cherubim, Molech, the king (Jupiter is the king star). I know among sacred name folks saying Lord God is basically saying baal gad.

The mountain or summit is referred to as Saphon in Ugaritic texts where the palace of Baal is located in a myth about Attar.[7][8]
(saphon=zaphon?)
–Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon;

Attar, also known as Athtar, Astar, and Ashtar is the god of the morning star in western Semitic mythology. In Canaanite legend he attempts to usurp the throne of the dead god Baal but proves inadequate.
–Isa 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Ok so Hermon is named for Hermes. Hermes is the messenger god. He is the same as thoth, mercury, and nebo (like in nebucanezzer).

Moses died on Mt. Nebo

Jesus was (possibly) transfigured on Mt. Hermon

WOW

Moses the veiled one died on it, Jesus was unveiled on it. Nebo is the babylonian/semitic version, Hermes is the greek version (OT hebrew, NT greek)

2 Cor 3
12Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 13and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 14But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed(transfigured) into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Isa 25
And on this mountain I will remove the covering that is cast over all nations, the veil that is spread over all faces, I will swallow up death forever.

Hi Mag!
You probably already know this but, thought I’d through in my .02 anyway. The “sea of glass” spoken of in Rev. is actually the “sea of brass”. The sea in the temple was made of brass (which is, I believe what they used for mirrors in the day), the priests would inspect themselves in the sea of brass to make sure they were clean before going into the temple. I was having thoughts like . . . As priests, we see into the “mirror” (of brass) dimly outside of the temple but, when we enter the temple (in heaven) we will see Him face to face. Then we will know what sort of man we are. We will awake in His likeness. So, He fulfills the shadow - the mirror or sea of brass, as the true mirror by which to judge if our garments are clean or unclean. Adam had offspring in his own image. We conform to the image of Yeshua, the 2nd Adam who washes us clean and makes us alive with Him. It seems that the sea always pointed to Messiah as a symbol, perhaps of the Red Sea which the Hebrews were baptized into with Moses and as a reminder that the One that is like Moses would come to deliver them from their bondage (of sin).
Thank you for taking the time to put this all down. All I can say is WOW! I have been thinking on it a lot.

Hi Mag!
You probably already know this but, thought I’d through in my .02 anyway. The “sea of glass” spoken of in Rev. is actually the “sea of brass”. The sea in the temple was made of brass (which is, I believe what they used for mirrors in the day), the priests would inspect themselves in the sea of brass to make sure they were clean before going into the temple. I was having thoughts like . . . As priests, we see into the “mirror” (of brass) dimly outside of the temple but, when we enter the temple (in heaven) we will see Him face to face. Then we will know what sort of man we are. We will awake in His likeness. So, He fulfills the shadow - the mirror or sea of brass, as the true mirror by which to judge if our garments are clean or unclean. Adam had offspring in his own image. We conform to the image of Yeshua, the 2nd Adam who washes us clean and makes us alive with Him. It seems that the sea always pointed to Messiah as a symbol, perhaps of the Red Sea which the Hebrews were baptized into with Moses and as a reminder that the One that is like Moses would come to deliver them from their bondage (of sin).
Thank you for taking the time to put this all down. All I can say is WOW! I have been thinking on it a lot.

Hey Kelly,

I concur :wink:

good stuff. I agree since I believe that the LOF is His fiery presence, which the LOF may be an allusion on to the laver as bronze is judgement, and also what you’ve pointed out.

Also priests could not wear wool into the temple they would have had to change to linen. Who was hairy? Esau, edom is the same word as adam. See linen in Revelation.

also I wonder if there’s a connection to Jesus washing the feet, as I don’t think the priests would take a bath in the laver, they would have already been mostly clean.??

I’m glad this got you going

The big one for me, is the myth, that is is reflected, exposed and even denounced in Judaism and Christianity. This myth and social/religious process, is that of mimetic rivalry/violence, the scapegoat killed, peace restored and the scapegoat deified. Girard is a real hero of mine, for bringing to light this relationship.

kyrie.com/outer/girard/Girar … Part_I.pdf

I believe Christ is the fullness of God, come to suffer as the fulfilment of the natural scapegoat mechanism. Christ came that we might realize, we are not guilty, nor ever have been been guilty. Personal guilt is part of the disorder/corruption instilled in the created world. Guilt is the dark cloud that encompasses the soul of the worldly/unregenerate man.

God gave His all for us, through Christ Jesus. I wept when I realized that God forsook all of Himself, as the scapegoat on the cross for me. Yes, God is made up of the All and the Nothing. Why does man believe he can measure Him? Yes, throw the trinity in, as a myth, also.

Thanks Hennessey! Super interesting link!

Interesting link, Hennessey. By focusing our desire on something intangible (the good God), Jesus defuses memetic desire, thus stopping (potentially) all the violence that comes from human envy and greed. By forgiving those who killed him, Jesus condemned and demolished the concept of a vengeful God who demands sacrifice and satisfaction. If God Incarnate forgives those who hurt him, so should we. Again, this one stunning insight has the potential to end human violence.

We’re guilty of wrongly thinking we are guilty? I think we’re guilty of wrongly thinking we are innocent. Otherwise, Christ’s call to repentance makes no sense at all.

I feel personal guilt when I do something wrong. At these times, it is good to feel bad, and bad to feel good. Psychopaths don’t feel guilt. (Ask any leper if pain can be good.)

Was David regenerate or unregenerate when he acknowledged his guilt over Bathsheba?

I think I am the superposition of two natures. I am a sheep and a goat, a son of God and a son of the devil, an old man and a new man, spirit and flesh, regenerate and unregenerate, in Christ and in Adam. I am of two minds. Part of me is doomed to destruction, part is destined to glory.

Cheers.