Annihilation theory...verses answered

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Annihilation theory...verses answered

Postby Origen; » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:55 pm

The following continues answering the claims of endless annihilation theology from this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1074

he-man, post: 71904107, member: 271484 wrote:Huh? Psalms 36:12 says the wicked will not rise.



12There the doers of iniquity have fallen;
They have been thrust down and cannot rise.

Rise from what?

It doesn't say they "will not rise" but they are not able to rise. It doesn't say that that God is unable to make them rise. Next:


he-man, post: 71904107, member: 271484 wrote:Proverbs 10:28-31 says the wicked will be utterly destroyed.


Not in this (NASB) version:

28The hope of the righteous is gladness,
But the expectation of the wicked perishes.

29 The way of the LORD is a stronghold to the upright,
But ruin to the workers of iniquity.

30 The righteous will never be shaken,
But the wicked will not dwell in the land.

31 The mouth of the righteous flows with wisdom,
But the perverted tongue will be cut out.


he-man, post: 71904107, member: 271484 wrote:Isaiah 40:24 says they shall wither and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.


Scarcely have they been planted, Scarcely have they been sown, Scarcely has their stock taken root in the earth, But He merely blows on them, and they wither, And the storm carries them away like stubble. (NASB)

Something that still exists is not even annihilated, let alone endlessly annihilated. Next:

he-man, post: 71904107, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms 37:22 says they shall be utterly destroyed.


For those blessed by Him will inherit the land, But those cursed by Him will be cut off. (NASB)

There's no endless annihilation there either. Next:

he-man, post: 71904107, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms 31:17 says they will be silent in the grave.


Who isn't silent in the grave? Next:


he-man, post: 71904107, member: 271484 wrote:Hope this helps to promote your understanding.


Yes, i understand those were all lame failed attempts to support endless annihilation.
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Re: Annihilation theory...verses answered

Postby Origen; » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:55 pm

he-man, post: 71905650, member: 271484 wrote:Okay, so try these and answer them: Psalms 37:10 the wicked shall not tbe..


"10, 11. shall not be—literally, "is not"—is not to be found."

"Shall not be, to wit, in the land of the living. He shall be dead and gone, as this phrase is commonly taken."

"It shall not be, i.e. his place, and estate, and glory shall be gone..."

"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be,.... Not that they shall be annihilated or reduced to nothing, because nonentities have no place nor being any where; when they die they shall lift up their eyes in hell; their bodies will rise again at the last day; they shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ...but they shall be no more in the world, and in the same flourishing and prosperous circumstances they were..."

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/37-10.htm

It is not true that in a "little while" the wicked would be endlessly annihilated. In much longer than "a little while", in fact thousands of years later for those of that time, they will be raised back to life. Next:


he-man, post: 71905650, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms 59:5 be not merciful to any wicked transgressors..


You, O LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel, Awake to punish all the nations; Do not be gracious to any who are treacherous in iniquity. Selah. (NASB)
And Thou, Jehovah, God of Hosts, God of Israel, Awake to inspect all the nations. Favour not any treacherous dealers of iniquity. Selah. (YLT)

David prays that God will not be gracious to certain people. Will God listen to him? Love Omnipotent is able to convert those who persist in wickedness such as He did with Saul of Tarsus when He supernaturally blinded him & spoke to him on the road to Damascus. God their Saviour may also punish certain wicked people for their own good, that they may repent & be saved. Rather than being "gracious" to them or showing them "favour" (Psa.59:5).

Psalm 59:5 says nothing about anyone being endlessly annihilated. Next:


he-man, post: 71905650, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms I:28 blotted out of the Book of the Living...


Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. (Psa.69:28)

This says nothing about anyone being endlessly annihilated.

David prays again against his enemies. Will God answer him? God in the flesh said "love your enemies". Next:


he-man, post: 71905650, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms 140:10 they rise not up again...



David's ill wish or prayer against his enemies. Will God answer him?

May burning coals fall upon them; May they be cast into the fire, Into deep pits from which they cannot rise. (Psa.140:10)

On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head. (Rom.12:20)

Psalm 140:10 says nothing about anyone being endlessly annihilated. Next:


he-man, post: 71905650, member: 271484 wrote:Isaiah 47:14 they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame.


They can't deliver themselves. But Love Omnipotent can deliver them. With Him all is possible.

Isa.47:14 says nothing about anyone being endlessly annihilated. Next:


he-man, post: 71905650, member: 271484 wrote:What sayest thou now brown cow? Acts of the Apostles 3:23


Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people. (Acts 3:23)

21whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
22Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you.
23And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’

The Greek word for "cut off" above is exolethreuó (Strongs # 1842). In Exodus 31:14 it occurs with the meaning of death. Death is not endless annihilation.

Spiros Zhodiates says the "word and its syn. never mean extinction, but a change of one's state involving retribution or punishment"
(The Complete Word Study Dictionary", p.605).

There is no endless annihilation spoken of in Acts 3:23.

Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.


Repay double, not infinitey:

Rev.18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).
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Re: Annihilation theory...verses answered

Postby Origen; » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:43 pm

he-man, post: 71910029, member: 271484 wrote:Don't want to answer Jason? The why don't you just answer what I have posted? Try these on for size:
Job 8:22 says the wicked will come to naught.. and shall not be.



This is Bildad talking, not God. Bildad says enemies will be clothed in shame, not endless annihilation:

Your enemies will be clothed in shame, and the tents of the wicked will be no more. (Job 8:22)

Those in shame are not annihilated, but living. Bildad says the tents of the wicked, not the wicked themselves, will be no more.

"This opinion the friends of Job maintain all along, and by this they urge him to forsake his sins, repent, and return to God."


he-man, post: 71910029, member: 271484 wrote:1 Samuel 2:9 says the wicked shall be put to silence...


He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

This says the wicked shall be silent in darkness, not they shall get endless annihilation.


he-man, post: 71910029, member: 271484 wrote:Job 21:30 says their day of destruction will come...


"For the wicked is reserved for the day of calamity; They will be led forth at the day of fury. (NASB)

This tells us about one day, not endless or final destiny.


he-man, post: 71910029, member: 271484 wrote:Job 36:6 the wicked lives are not preserved...


5"Behold, God is mighty but does not despise any; He is mighty in strength of understanding. 6"He does not keep the wicked alive, But gives justice to the afflicted.

God did not keep Sodom alive. Does that mean they are annihilated forever? No.


he-man, post: 71910029, member: 271484 wrote:NOW do you think you can address these points or would you like about 50 more?


50 more lame ones that don't support endless annihilation?
That reminds me of these 600 that allegedly "expound on the truth of the Reconciliation of All":

http://haroldlovelace.com/lovelacelist.php
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Re: Annihilation theory...verses answered

Postby Origen; » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:45 pm

he-man, post: 71914693, member: 271484 wrote:It
It says they are not able to rise from the grave! The margin says cast off for the grave! Plus you missed Psalms 115:17; the dead praise not God, neither any that go down into silence.


Obviously dead corpses are silent & don't praise God. That applies to both saints & sinners.
Are you now arguing that everyone who dies is annihilated forever?


he-man, post: 71914693, member: 271484 wrote:It
Isaiah 38:18 says: the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee, they that go down into the pit cannot hope for your truth.



18"For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness. 19"It is the living who give thanks to You, as I do today;

Those corpses in "death" do not praise God, but "the living" give thanks to Him.

This context says nothing about endless annihilation.


he-man, post: 71914693, member: 271484 wrote:It
Psalms 88:10-11 says they are for destruction.


This passage has many questions, but no answers:

10 Will You perform wonders for the dead? Will the departed spirits rise and praise You? Selah. 11 Will Your lovingkindness be declared in the grave, Your faithfulness in Abaddon? 12 Will Your wonders be made known in the darkness? And Your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?


he-man, post: 71914693, member: 271484 wrote:It
Obadiah 1:18 agrees.


"Then the house of Jacob will be a fire And the house of Joseph a flame; But the house of Esau will be as stubble. And they will set them on fire and consume them, So that there will be no survivor of the house of Esau," For the LORD has spoken.

This is speaking of earthly punishment in this life, not final destiny. I suggest you read some commentaries here: http://biblehub.com/commentaries/obadiah/



he-man, post: 71914693, member: 271484 wrote:It
Your error is great, even Strong does not agree with you, Thayer and Middle Liddle do not agree with you as I have attached their translations below:




A number of Early Church Fathers were universalists, including Origen who was a Greek scholar, Greek being his native language.

You & others in this thread have posted dozens of verses allegedly supporting endless annihilation, but i have shown that none of them do. Nor is there a single verse in Scripture to support such a theory.
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Re: Annihilation theory...verses answered

Postby Origen; » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:34 am

he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:You have left out and replaced words and forgot the verses that proceed and come after the ones you have quoted from.
There are many translations and the best way is to examine them all. I am combining your last three posts to save space and answer them: Acts of the Apostles 3:23;
And it shall be, every soul that may not hear that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from out of the people. ; a cutting off, or as Aben Ezra explains it here:,
"death by the hand of heaven", that is, immediate destruction from God, and so Miamonides syas, Yesod Hattora. c. 9. sect 4.


Even your own comments don't support endless annihilation.

Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people. (Acts 3:23)

21whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
22Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you.
23And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’

The Greek word for "cut off" above is exolethreuó (Strongs # 1842). In Exodus 31:14 it occurs with the meaning of death. Death is not endless annihilation.

Spiros Zhodiates says the "word and its syn. never mean extinction, but a change of one's state involving retribution or punishment" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary", p.605).

There is no endless annihilation spoken of in Acts 3:23.


he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:You quoted Romans 12:20 in response to my Psalms 140:10; Let the burning coals fall upon them, let them be cast into the fire, into deep pits, that they rise not again.
However, you forgot to quote Romans 12:19 which says, ...for it hath been written, VENGEANCE IS MINE.


Vengeance is vengeance, not endless annihilation. Here is vengeance:

Rev.18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

That says repay double, not infinitey or endlessly.

Repayment (vengeance) is harmonious with salvation and with universal reconciliation:

"Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light; I will see his righteousness." (Micah 7:9)

"And what about judgment? "In the first judgment recorded in Scripture, mercy goes hand in hand. If Adam is to die, mercy follows; the serpent's head is to be bruised (Gen 3:15). So, too, even the vengeance of eternal fire on Sodom ends in her restoration (Jude 7, Ezek 16:53-55). We thus understand the striking juxtaposition of mercy and judgment in God's revelation of himself to Moses (Exod 34:6-7)...[f]ew more beautiful illustrations of the view I am urging can be found than that afforded by the story of Achan, stoned by a terrible judgment..in the Valley of Achor (Josh 7:24-25); for if we turn to Hosea 2:15 we shall find this promise, 'I will give her the Valley of Achor for a door of hope' -- words pregnant with suggestion."

"The Prophets are full of similar teaching. Note Isaiah connecting the words of comfort and pardon to Israel with her having received 'double for all her sins' (Isa 40:1-2). So it is said, 'Zion shall be redeemed with judgment' (Isa 1:27)...this connection of judgment and salvation runs through the Bible....So in Ezekiel 24:13-14, it is said of Israel, 'You shall not be purged of your filthiness any more, till I have satisfied my fury upon you.'"

http://www.worksofmacdonald.com/thomas- ... -scripture



he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Matthew 25:46 and these shall go away into everlasting judgement, but the righteous into life eternal, [the angels will be ordered to take and cast them into everlasting burnings.]



And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian." (CLV)
And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life. (Ro)
"And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life." (ED)
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during." (YLT)

The "eternal" (eonian) fire that burned Sodom went out long ago. It was not eternal:

Jude 1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian."

"...Likewise, the Presbyterian Bible scholar, M. R. Vincent, in his extensive note on aiõn/aiõnios states: “Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.” "

Philo was contemporary with Christ & we have this translation of his words which use the same words Christ used at Mt.25:46:

"It is better absolutely never to make any promise at all than not to assist another willingly, for no blame attaches to the one, but great dislike on the part of those who are less powerful, and intense hatred and long enduring punishment [kolasis aiónios] from those who are more powerful, is the result of the other line of conduct." http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/yonge/book45.html

If Christ meant "endless" punishment at Mt.25:46, why use the ambiguous aionios? Why not instead use the word aperantos ("endless"; 1 Timothy 1:4)? Or why not use the words "no end" as in Lk1:33b: "And of His kingdom there will be no end"? The answer seems obvious.

"In the late 2nd century/early 3rd century, Clement of Alexandria clearly distinguished between kólasis and timoria: “For there are partial corrections [padeiai] which are called chastisements [kólasis], which many of us who have been in transgression incur by falling away from the Lord’s people. But as children are chastised by their teacher, or their father, so are we by Providence. But God does not punish [timoria], for punishment [timoria] is retaliation for evil. He chastises, however, for good to those who are chastised collectively and individually” (Strom. 7.16)."

https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2013/09/1 ... s-forever/

"...in a passage in Origen in which he speaks of “life after aionios life” (160). As a native speaker of Greek he does not see a contradiction in such phrasing; that is because aionios life does not mean “unending, eternal life,” but rather “life of the next age.” Likewise the Bible uses the word kolasis to describe the punishment of the age to come. Aristotle distinguished kolasis from timoria, the latter referring to punishment inflicted “in the interest of him who inflicts it, that he may obtain satisfaction.” On the other hand, kolasis refers to correction, it “is inflicted in the interest of the sufferer” (quoted at 32). Thus Plato can affirm that it is good to be punished (to undergo kolasis), because in this way a person is made better (ibid.). This distinction survived even past the time of the writing of the New Testament, since Clement of Alexandria affirms that God does not timoreitai, punish for retribution, but he does kolazei, correct sinners (127)."
http://journalofanalytictheology.com/ja ... 30418a/271

Earlier in the book of Matthew the same author wrote:

Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.


he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:John 5:29 says And shall come forth , they that have done good , unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the the resurrection of judgement.


Judgement is judgement, not endless annihilation. Judgement is a good thing:

"My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you. When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness." (Isa.26:9)


he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Revelation 20:15 and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


That says cast into the LOF, not cast into endless annihilation.

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).



he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms 69:25 Let their habitation be desolate and let none dwell in their tents.


What makes you - imagine - any endless annihilation there?

he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms 69:28 says Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.


What makes you - imagine - any endless annihilation there? Those who are blotted out of life, or killed, God makes alive again:

"See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand. (Deut.33:29)


he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Job 21:30 The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.


A day of wrath is a day of wrath, not endless annihilation:

"For the wicked is reserved for the day of calamity; They will be led forth at the day of fury." (NASB)

One can suffer the Lord's wrath & be saved:

"Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light; I will see his righteousness." (Micah 7:9)


he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote: 21 Yet shall he be brought to the grave and remain in the tomb.


all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out (Jn.5:28-29)

New American Standard Bible
"While he is carried to the grave, Men will keep watch over his tomb. (Job 21:31)

"The last enemy that shall be abolished is death" (vs. 26).

Death is abolished (v.26). God becomes All "in" all (1 Cor.15:28). Even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."


he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Revelation 6:16-17 says hide us...from the wrath of the Lamb for the great day of his wrath has come , and who shall be able to stand?


"Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light; I will see his righteousness." (Micah 7:9)


he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Job 36:6 says He preserveth NOT the life of the wicked; but giveth their right to the afflicted [Hebrew margin]


He preserved not the life of wicked Pharoah, but set His afflicted people (Israel) free. Yet Pharoah is not annihilated forever, but will be raised (Jn.5:28-29) & saved (1 Cor.15:22-28).

"Ab. Ezra interprets it, The years of the wicked shall be shortened." e.g. Pharoah, Sodom, the world in Noah's day, etc

"Verse 6. - He preserveth not the life of the wicked. There is no special providence over the life of the wicked, as Job had supposed, or pretended to suppose (Job 21:7; comp. Job 12:6). On the contrary, God "overturneth" wicked men "in the night, so that they are destroyed; he striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others" (Job 34:25, 26)."


he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Job 36:18 says Because there is wrath beware lest He take thee away with His stroke:THEN A GREAT RANSOM CANNOT DELIVER THEE.


New American Standard Bible
"Beware that wrath does not entice you to scoffing; And do not let the greatness of the ransom turn you aside.

New International Version
Be careful that no one entices you by riches; do not let a large bribe turn you aside.


he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Consider then, Isaiah 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubbel [straw] the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame; their shall not
be a coal to warm at nor fire to sit before it.


They are - already - like - stubble & have been - already - burned, yet live:

New American Standard Bible
"Behold, they have become like stubble, Fire burns them; They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame; There will be no coal to warm by Nor a fire to sit before!

English Standard Version
Behold, they are like stubble; the fire consumes them; they cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame. No coal for warming oneself is this, no fire to sit before!

Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold they are as stubble, fire hath burnt them, they shall not deliver them- selves from the power of the dames: there are no coals wherewith they may be warmed, nor fire, that they may sit thereat.

Young's Literal Translation
Lo, they have been as stubble! Fire hath burned them, They deliver not themselves from the power of the flame, There is not a coal to warm them, a light to sit before it.

"...they shall be no more able to stand before the fire of divine wrath, or before the judgments of God, by the hands of the Medes and Persians, than stubble can stand before a consuming fire".



he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in His hand, and He will thourghly cleanse His floor, and gather His wheat into the repository; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


Wheat is useful to the farmer for food. Chaff is useless, unless it is used for fuel. That occurs by burning it, as in Mt.3:12. Of course burned chaff is not annihilated but changed into something else. This verse does not address the final destiny of people's souls. It doesn't even mention the word "soul", let alone any soul is ever annihilated & God Himself is powerless to resurrect that soul. Neither does it state the wheat & chaff represent different people rather than 2 parts of one person. In fact the previous verse said they would be baptized in the "Holy Spirit and fire" (v.11). Not one or the other. That is salvation. And it was spoken to the Pharisees & Sadduccees whom John called a "generation of vipers" (v.7).

Mark 9:49 For everyone will be salted with fire.

he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms 1:5 Therefore the wicked will NOT stand in the day of the judgement, nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. Psalms 1:6 For Jehovah knows the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked shall perish.


All sinners are wicked until they are saved. When all sinners are saved, then there will be no more wicked. All will be "in the assembly of the righteous".

The - way - of the wicked shall perish, i.e. his sinful ways, his wickedness. Then he will be saved.

Psalm 72

11Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

12For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.

13He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.

14He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.



he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms 36:12 There are the workers of iniquity fallen: they are cast down, and in no way shall they be able to stand [Hebrew margin] [ABP] [DARBY] KJV]



New International Version
See how the evildoers lie fallen-- thrown down, not able to rise!

New American Standard Bible
There the doers of iniquity have fallen; They have been thrust down and cannot rise.

King James Bible
There are the workers of iniquity fallen: they are cast down, and shall not be able to rise.

Rise from what?

It doesn't say they "will not rise" but they are not able to rise. It doesn't say that that God is unable to make them rise.

Death is abolished (v.26). God becomes All "in" all (1 Cor.15:28). Even in all who were in Adam (v.22).

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

he-man, post: 71919386, member: 271484 wrote:Psalms 37:38 but the transgressors shall be destroyed together, the future of the wicked shall be cut off.


Cut off, but not forever. Cut off when the dead saints are raised & they are left dead. Until their resurrection. Cut off when cast into the lake of fire, the second death, but not forever. Only till death is abolished & God becomes all in all (1 Cor.15:22-28, etc).

Or the verse merely refers to their "posterity" (compare the LXX & the Vulgate):

But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off. (Psa.37:38, NASB)

posterity: the descendants of a person.
"God offered Abraham a posterity like the stars of heaven"

“Posterity” could also be translated as “end” or even “future.” Even as “future,” their offspring could be intended (cf. Prov 24:20)".

Strongs Hebrew 8045, shamad, "destroyed"...e.g. as in death in this mortal life, as in Genesis 34:30:

Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, "You have brought trouble on me by making me obnoxious to the Canaanites and Perizzites, the people living in this land. We are few in number, and if they join forces against me and attack me, I and my household will be destroyed.[8045]" (Gen.34:30)

Ps 66:3,4 Enemies will submit to God.........................Can any stay rebellious in "hell?"
Ps 90:3 God turns man to destruction, then says return.....How can one return from "destruction?"
Ps 33:15 God fashions all hearts..........................."All" hearts, including men like "Hitler?"
Ps 86:9 All nations will worship Him......................."All" nations!
Ps 138:4 All kings will praise God..........................Are you catching on?
Ps 65:2-4 All flesh will come to God.........................That sounds wondrous.
Ps 72:18 God only does wondrous things......................I wish we would believe that.
Ps 22:27 All ends of the earth will turn to Him.............For what purpose?
Ps 22:27 All families will worship before Him...............Praise His name!
Ps 145:9 He is good to all..................................Including your worst enemies.
Ps 145:9 His mercies are over all his works.................Let's start believing that.
Ps 145:14 He raises all who fall.............................Who hasn't fallen in sin?
Ps 145:10 All His works will praise Him........................For "eternal torment?"
Ps 135:6 God does what pleases Him..........................If it pleases Him to save all that He might be in all, are you upset?



he-man, post: 71922750, member: 271484 wrote:
The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction, they shall be brought forth for the day of wrath. 2 Peter 2:6; 2 Peter 2:9


2 Pet.2:6 & many others you posted before & i already answered them. I'm still awaiting your responses. As for 2 Pet.2:9:

Regarding the Greek word for "destruction":

"684 /apoleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apollymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being (Vine's Expository Dictionary)

Also the verse speaks of a "day" of judgement & destruction, not endless destruction.

Jesus' body was destroyed. Was it lost forever? No.

1 Cor.15:28 And when allthings shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/uniqu ... alism.html
Scholars Corner:
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

Minimal Statement of Faith for Evangelical Universalists:
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=57
Origen;
 
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