The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The "2nd Coming of Christ" shall happen in 2040

Read Josephus’s account of the destruction of Jerusalem. He give it in detail. The Jews were getting along fine with the Romans until the Zealots began to make attacks on the Romans. That is why the Roman army moved in. Why didn’t Josephus see Jesus when He returned? He says nothing about his appearing at the time. And why didn’t anyone else see Him so that His coming would have been recorded in history books?

The writer of Revelation had a vision that he described in detail. At one point in his vision, he saw Jesus returning:

Immediately afterward, he predicts that when He does come EVERYONE will see Him! It will not be a secret coming, but EVERYONE will know that it is He!

Paul also wrote that the Lord Jesus would not come until the “lawless one” (the “beast” or “antichrist”) is revealed to the people of the world:

:confused: :laughing:

Paidion, I look at the question of the second coming in a different manner. Andrew Perriman says this:

I agree.

Well, actually, I did not say that I was ‘so sure’ of anything - those are your words.
More to the point, I was obviously jesting; God wants all men to repent NOW, and for a person to ‘plan’ on repenting after 21 more years of willful sinning is just silly.

Your point in the quote above is a good one.

You just shot yourself in the foot with the Perfect tense. That means that the action of not knowing is completed in the past and continuing as of now until the Second Coming. That means that the not knowing is still being continued.

Josephus DID see Jesus… but like the rest he just didn’t perceive the poignant gravity such as he was witnessing, i.e., he wasn’t a believer so such wouldn’t have been present in his mind to give direct acknowledgement etc. Besides this, Jesus himself had this to say…

<ἔγνως> egnōs = to know… perceive, discern, conclude.

Well, I think you are being a little more than disingenuous when one considers the very “history books” of Eusebius Pamphili of Caesarea (AD. 264-339) whose record does indeed quote Josephus himself, giving this testimony…

Coming from you, given your previously professed positions on Revelation these quotes above carry absolutely no weight of credible argument at all…

"]Don’t quote Revelation to me. It was a disputed book in the early church.

"]I think we cannot establish doctrines or beliefs based on that book.
:open_mouth:

From the fulfilled perspective there are two likely candidates for this character… Nero or the then ruling High Priest. It is worthy of note too that Paul states the likelihood of a falsely sanctioned “epistle” circulating THEN purporting to carry apostolic credence — what a ridiculous thing for Paul to say IF said situation was not on their immediate horizon, but supposedly some 2000+yrs and counting down the road. :unamused:

Good post, Paidon!

They didn’t see Jesus coming in 70 AD…because He didn’t. :exclamation:

In judgement, perhaps, but not in glory & power & every eye seeing Him, the resurrection of the dead, & judgement of the nations, etc

Pantelism/Full Preterism has missed the mark.

“Full preterists… are even so bold as to say that we are living in the new heavens and the new Earth (talked about in Revelation 21-22).”

“Of course, they have to abandon the plain understanding of the Scriptures to try and explain what John really meant when he said “there shall no longer be any death…mourning, or crying, or pain” in Rev. 21:4.”

alwaysbeready.com/preterism-refuted

Your understanding of a Perfect Tense is flawed. Realize that your imposing a future context to the meaning to say that nobody could know until the second coming. A Perfect Tense is something completed and continues to the Present. But the “PRESENT” is the context in which it was stated. The Apostles would LATER be given the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of the Father in Heaven and come to know.

Some here might become QUITE UPSET if I DIDN"T share the opinion - of the Calvinist site, Got Questions: :laughing:

Is it possible to know when Jesus is coming back?

Let me quote a bit - from their answer. :smiley:

Notice that it says:

THEN is it ALSO POSSIBLE, that God revealed to the Zombie Apocalypse video producer- what will happen during the tribulation. :smiley:

Well, Davo, none of the “history” you’ve quoted stated that Christ returned in A.D. 70.
There is a HUGE difference between Christ’s prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem around A.D. 70 and Christ’s LACK of prediction of His second coming at that destruction.
It still remains that there is not an IOTA of historical evidence that Christ returned in A.D. 70
And you suggest that is it I who is being disingenuous?

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The writer of Revelation had a vision that he described in detail. At one point in his vision, he saw Jesus returning:

    Re 1:7 Look! He is coming with the clouds…

Immediately afterward, he predicts that when He does come EVERYONE will see Him! It will not be a secret coming, but EVERYONE will know that it is He!

    … every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and on his account all the tribes of the earth will wail. So it is to be. Amen.

Davo, you wrote:

Coming from you, given your previously professed positions on Revelation these quotes above carry absolutely no weight of credible argument at all…

It appears that these quotes carry absolutely no weight with you, either—and you profess to believe Revelation.

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I can’t figure out, if I’m coming or going. Should I wait for the future tribulation, for the coming Zombie Apocalypse ? Or should I look to 70 AD…And seek out a conspiracy theory - that covered this up? And if Christ is coming back in 2040, then when will the zombies arrive?

Well Paidion that’s ONLY your say-so. As I understand it… the Coming of the Son of Man in the Glory of the Father was simply Jesus’ apocalyptic rhetoric in kind with the prophetic nuances of the day, being indicative of Jesus’ right hand of God authority in that coming Day of Judgment.

To ‘come on the clouds’ was classic Hebraic language for God executing judgment… something that literally occurred and usually in terms of foreign invasion, e.g., Babylon. So God’s “coming” though literal and physical was understood accordingly as the invading forces — NOT God’s personal physical presence. Jesus’ parousia of AD70 is to be understood in EXACTLY the same terms, i.e., “in the glory of the Father” — that is, in the same manner as past history. Example:

Ezek 30:1-3 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, “Son of man, prophesy and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Wail, ‘Woe to the day!’ For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near; It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles.

Lk 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Christ’s parousia is history… it has happened as He said it would. As a result of Christ’s Cross and Parousia God redeemed all Israel and reconciled all humanity — this is the “good news” of the restoration of man.

Thus the pantelist perspective views this as complete with the so-called ‘already not yet’ language of the NT reflecting this transitional period approx. AD30-70 — 40yrs, a biblical generation, i.e., Jesus’ “this generation” — it all seamlessly flows together.

Yeh. Spiritualize away anything that is plainly stated in the Bible, and you can justify ANY belief that pleases you.

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To be fair to Davo. The essentials or basics are probably plain and simple - whatever they are. But the church fathers…along with the reformers…and the churches and theologians…have various opinions, on what someone might think…is plainly stated in the Bible.

I saw a great movie today. It was talked about, in the Patheos evangelical newsletter at ‘A Quiet Place’: A Story of Sacrifice in an Age of Self-Interest. Well, it’s a well constructed - end times scenario. It has excellent ratings, on BOTH IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes. And much worse than anything, the AMC shows The Walking Dead and Fear The Walking Dead - can portray. Anything can probably be made, to fit into the Book of Revelations. Not that this movie is doing it - mind you.

This is such a lame and lazy retort! You seem to bring it out whenever you can’t give a cogent answer to the texts and reasoned rationale explaining such. One can only conclude you’d prefer to annexe those texts from the bible as well… or have you already beat me to the punch on that score?

Clearly in your enthusiasm to run the sword through in disdain you read right over…

To ‘come on the clouds’ was classic Hebraic language for God executing judgment… something that literally occurred and usually in terms of foreign invasion, e.g., Babylon.

Did you see that… literally occurred:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I have given many “cogent answers” and “reasoned rationale” to your irrational theology, but it’s effect upon you is like water off a duck’s back. So what is there left for me, except to hit you with “lame and lazy retorts”?

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You aside of course, I’m sure others reading along, agree or not, can follow the logic of what I present…

A small percentage, perhaps? Your commentaries need to get to the level of the common man, like the Watchtower magazine, or your sidekick’s, the Maintenanceman’s, posts.

“If pantelism is true, then our understanding of the final state of existence has been wrong; our understanding of the events leading up to it has been wrong; our understanding of our bodily resurrection has been wrong; our understanding of our eternal state has been wrong; the great ecumenical creeds (historic summaries of essential Christian belief) were wrong, including the Apostles’ and the Nicene Creeds.”
http://answers.org/bookreviews/misstheend.html

“The unorthodox aspect of this view is that the reconciliation accomplished in 70 A.D was such that there no longer remains a lost condition in humanity and therefore no present need for conversion – which reduces to a form of universalism where all are saved and one must simply realize what has been done for all humanity.” https://www.theopedia.com/pantelism

“Save the fairytales for the appropriate venue” (TomL):
https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/religious-movements/general-religious-movement-topics/preterism/5014161-the-folly-of-full-preterism/page6

"A belief by all full Preterists, that all spiritual gifts ceased by 70-AD…

…beyond 70-AD Jesus dwells fully with us, and the purpose and time of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit has been fulfilled and completed…

…Christians beyond this period see God fully, lacking nothing…"

(p.19 of “End Times Prophecy: A Biblical Overview of Preterism, Historicism, and Futurism”, Roy W. Anderberg, 2017)

“Full or Hyper Preterism is simply an extreme form of Preterism that is heretical, it is heretical because it denies fundamental tenets of the Christian faith: That Jesus Christ will come again, in glory, to judge the quick and the dead, and that there will be a bodily resurrection of the dead and eternal life in the Age to Come.” https://www.christianforums.com/threads/full-preterism-pantelism-how-dangerous.8052813/

“Full preterists… are even so bold as to say that we are living in the new heavens and the new Earth (talked about in Revelation 21-22).”

“Of course, they have to abandon the plain understanding of the Scriptures to try and explain what John really meant when he said “there shall no longer be any death…mourning, or crying, or pain” in Rev. 21:4.”

https://alwaysbeready.com/preterism-refuted

"Hyper or Full Preterism states that the Parousia, Judgment, and Resurrection took place in 70 AD. Hyper Preterists believe that the resurrection of the dead is not the resurrection of the body, as the Church has always taught, but instead is a spiritual resurrection to heaven. That the Judgment is not the Judgment of the living and the dead at the conclusion of history, but Judgment against ancient Israel, and that the end of the age is not the conclusion of this present, sinful age in which the power of sin and death dominates the world but is merely the conclusion of the Old Testament age signaled by the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. https://www.christianforums.com/threads/full-preterism-pantelism-how-dangerous.8052813/#post-72404274

50 x 120 = 6000 years = 2030 not 40.