The Evangelical Universalist Forum

What are the issues with ongoing sin in everlasting hell?

Here are some thoughts - feel free to comment/challenge/correct, or add to them :slight_smile:

I think ongoing sin in everlasting hell would cause huge problems because:

*]It means God doesn’t get the free, loving worship (100% mind, body & spirit, like that commanded in Luke 10:27, Matt 22:37, Deut 6:5, etc) He deserves from everyone He created. I think the following support this biblical theme:

note this parallels v3 where the phrase describes everyone except Christ. Yes, v9b talks about people from every tribe, etc. but these are to be the priests, i.e. the ones to bring Christ to everyone, so that v13 can occur.

also picked up in Phil 2:9-10 - usually (always?) when Paul speaks of confession, it’s in the context of salvation e.g.:

and isn’t superficial, e.g.:

i.e. how are people sinning in hell in any way “to Him”??/*]

*]It decreases the victory of Christ in at least three ways:
a) Numerically. How impressive would Christ’s death & resurrection be if it saved no one? Surely less than if He saved some people. Therefore the quantity of people saved does matter, and thus if He can save everyone, then that’s a greater victory. I’d suggest the Parable of the Lost Sheep supports this idea.

b) Impact on sin. If sin continues, then I feel it diminishes passages like

and the concept that Christ’s gift/grace is greater than Adam’s trespass, & sin e.g. Rom 5:20. i.e. not only would the scope of Adam be greater than Christ, it would be longer (as its effects started earlier).

c) It reduces what He hands over to the Father because the subjection of Creation isn’t thorough. i.e. whilst people might verbally admit God is “boss”, their spirits & minds are still in rebellion - still hate & reject His authority over their lives. God is hardly “all in all” (being everything to everyone)./*]

*]Reconciliation & peace become largely unwilling subjugation (rather than restoring the profound harmony of Eden), in passages like

/*]

*]It means there will be ongoing sorrow because:
a) There would be victims who would never see perpetrators repent, but probably continue to display hatred towards them. Conversely there would be some perpetrators who would never have the opportunity to be reconciled to their victims (victims in hell wouldn’t be in a position to forgive them either).

b) Everyone would forever be separated from loved ones, and would see loved one continue to waste their potential & suffer. e.g. It always saddens me when my son sins, I’d hate to have to helplessly standby watching sin in hell forever. Sorrow is meant to cease:

/*]

*]Assuming God doesn’t change His view of sin, it means God would be forever angry, however there are passages like

which at very least show God doesn’t enjoy being angry./*]

One thing that bothered me is the idea that we know that God is everywhere and fills everything and encompasses everything. And hell is full of the worst evil and agony and all kinds of yuck. So how could our Father, our Lord, our beautiful Holy Spirit, endure to have that within Himself for all eternity? That never worked for me.

Add to that the concept that hell is where God is not . . . and where would THAT be? Is He omnipresent or isn’t He? In the Great Divorce, CS Lewis makes hell miniscule, but does that help? Either He fills all and contains all or else He doesn’t.

I think that what happened (at least one picture of it) is that Jesus entered hell and He DID fill it. He filled the unsatisfied grave; the grave that never says “It is enough,” and in so doing, He destroyed it. The sin is gone (that’s the sting of death) and the empty – the unquenchably empty – is filled. It is destroyed by being made wholesome and good and part of the Kingdom of light. The darkness doesn’t go away; it just gets filled with light.

Whatever hell is and for however long it lasts God is there. It is as much part of God’s creation as is this sin affected creation.

CS Lewis seemed a little confused about this (although I know Lewis had universalistic sympathies as seems clear in the Great Divorce) in this quote from the Problem of Pain:

God cannot be locked out of anywhere. He is at work in hell and using hell to bring people to saving faith as he promises in Col 1:20 and many other places.