Surprised by the Methodist!

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Re: Surprised by the Methodist!

Postby Matt Wiley » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:50 am

Actually, I think Jesus did accept people as they are. Sinners, prostitutes, tax-collectors were drawn to Him. Did He encourage them to change? Of course he did. But his acceptance of them was not based on them having already repented. Rather His acceptance of them produced in them the desire, will, and strength to repent. Grace produced repentance. Repentance is not a requirement of grace.

To me the heart of the Gospel is that God was/is in Jesus reconciling all of us to Himself. The good news is that God loves us, accepts us, and desires a relationship with us no matter how big of a mess we're in or we are. That's good news for someone who is as big as a mess as I am! If grace and salvation was dependent upon my goodness one iota, man, I'd be in a world of hurt. It was God's love and acceptance of me that drew me to Him. And it was the love and acceptance of people that revealed to me the love of God.


I'm with you there, brother. :) Amen :)
The gospel is about our pain, and His love.

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Re: Surprised by the Methodist!

Postby Matt Wiley » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:53 am

Hey Sherman, I heard somewhere that you were writing a book about UR. How's that coming along? :)

Matt
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Re: Surprised by the Methodist!

Postby Sherman » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:29 am

Hi Matt,

Yep, I'm writing a book to my adult boys explaining to them why I've come to believe in UR. I'm thinking the title might be, "No Hell? Hell Yes!" or maybe "No More Hell? Heaven's Yes!" It's coming along very well. I'm working on a couple of chapters on Revelation's lake of fire right now. I'm coming at it from a biblicist perspective, primarily reinterpreting the passages that are interpreted by infernalists to affirm ECT. The most powerful chapter might be the one on Hinnom Valley (Gehenna), though the chapter on the lake of fire is turning out to be compelling also, I think. Throughout the book I plan to salt it with reviews of passages that affirm UR. I will also have a chapter or two on the philosophical arguments for UR and against ECT, plus a couple of chapters dealing with the common arguments against UR. I don't know when I'll be done, though I think I'm about 1/2 or even 2/3 through, maybe another 6 months or so. Like I said, I'm writing it to my sons, 22 & 19, young men who love God and enjoy studying scripture, but who do not have any accademic theological training, though my 19 year old is currently in a school of discipleship where they do have some classes on theology.

Anyhow, thanks for asking. Your interest is encouraging.
Sherman Nobles
author - "God Is A Divorce' Too! A Message of Hope, Healing, & Forgiveness"
http://www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore ... 331481-8-7
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Re: Surprised by the Methodist!

Postby Sword of ManticorE » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:39 am

We have a Methodist church here where I live and I sent them an email last week letting them know what my wife and my beliefs are and if we still could join fellowship with them without getting persecuted. We still haven't heard from them yet.
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Re: Surprised by the Methodist!

Postby Sherman » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:40 am

edwardtulane82 wrote:I've been thinking of checking out a United Methodist church in my area too. They seem to be pretty open-minded and non-judgmental. I'll try to check it out sometime after Thanksgiving. I'll let you all know how it goes when I do. :)

Matt


Though it looks as though we will not be joining the local UMC because it doesn't seem to fit the needs of my family, I did meet with the pastor and he reviewed the statements of faith of the church with me concluding he saw no reason why I could not be a member and even move into being a minister with them, which he was glad to help facilitate. And in checking out the other UMCs in my area, I'm finding that many have contemporary services, even charismatic to some degree. So as a denomination, they do seem to be growing and open to UR. I trust you'll enjoy your visit.
Sherman Nobles
author - "God Is A Divorce' Too! A Message of Hope, Healing, & Forgiveness"
http://www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore ... 331481-8-7
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Re: Surprised by the Methodist!

Postby Matt Wiley » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:35 am

Sherman: That sounds pretty cool, man. :) Do you know how long it's gonna be yet? Or who will be the publisher?
And your welcome :) I think you should include this quote somewhere in your book:

To me the heart of the Gospel is that God was/is in Jesus reconciling all of us to Himself. The good news is that God loves us, accepts us, and desires a relationship with us no matter how big of a mess we're in or we are. That's good news for someone who is as big as a mess as I am! If grace and salvation was dependent upon my goodness one iota, man, I'd be in a world of hurt. It was God's love and acceptance of me that drew me to Him. And it was the love and acceptance of people that revealed to me the love of God.


It's well said and certainly fits. :)

Let me know whenever you get it published. :)

And thanks for the encouragement about the UMC. I'm looking forward to checking out the one in my area. :)

Blessings to you brother

Matt
The gospel is about our pain, and His love.

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Re: Surprised by the Methodist!

Postby Sobornost » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:13 am

HI Sherman and All -

Just to say that I know of a book by a Methodist Bishop in the USA who is also a hopeful universalist. I love the book - full of warm pastoral insight it has a wonderful sense of humour and self irony. It book lacks all pretension and academic dryness. It is -

'Who Will Be Saved' by William H. Willmon, published by Abingdon Press (and should be a universalist classic).

I note that John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, was no universalist. However he had been inspired by the Moravian Brethren - many of whom were universlaists. Also, as a fastidious and tormented young man he turned to an older man, WIliam Law - the Anglican mystic - for spiritual freindshsip. By all accounts the old boy was very kindly with Wesley, encouraging him to relax into his sense of vocation. Eventually Wesley broke with Law and denounced him as being unsound on 'Justification by Faith'. Law went on to become a universalist (especially in his' Spirit of Love') - and was a major influence on 18th century Quaker spirituality before the influence ofWesley carried the way with 'Evangelical Friends'. Wesley, when he was older and mellowed, may not ahve believed in the greater hope but certinaly had wide hope- and he did think that God's mercy was certinaly wide enough to include his old teacher William Law.

All the best


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Re: Surprised by the Methodist!

Postby Sherman » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:49 am

edwardtulane82 wrote:Sherman: That sounds pretty cool, man. :) Do you know how long it's gonna be yet? Or who will be the publisher? And your welcome :) I think you should include this quote somewhere in your book:

To me the heart of the Gospel is that God was/is in Jesus reconciling all of us to Himself. The good news is that God loves us, accepts us, and desires a relationship with us no matter how big of a mess we're in or we are. That's good news for someone who is as big as a mess as I am! If grace and salvation was dependent upon my goodness one iota, man, I'd be in a world of hurt. It was God's love and acceptance of me that drew me to Him. And it was the love and acceptance of people that revealed to me the love of God.


It's well said and certainly fits. :)
Let me know whenever you get it published. :)
And thanks for the encouragement about the UMC. I'm looking forward to checking out the one in my area. :)
Blessings to you brother

Matt


Yep, that's a pretty good quote. It sounds familiar. ;) I haven't submitted my book to any publishers yet, and am debating on whether or not to do so or just publish it myself. Anyhow, thanks again for your encouragement.
Sherman Nobles
author - "God Is A Divorce' Too! A Message of Hope, Healing, & Forgiveness"
http://www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore ... 331481-8-7
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Re: Surprised by the Methodist!

Postby justin j » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:48 am

"It is our adventure and journey to return from our exiled state (a state which includes our vain imaginations about an angry/wrathful God) by realizing the truth of what is happening here and why, and it's NOT because God is angry at impenitent sinners. I know some will say "but the scripture says" but it is mystery layered upon mystery. These things are purposely hidden, and it is our honor to search them out."

So what is the mystery behind God killing people? Do you read the books of Luke, Acts as metaphor? (I'm asking you a serious question.)
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