The Evangelical Universalist Forum

What is the Gospel?

Paidion, in reading back through previous posts, and pondering on the subject, I’d say that I would have to agree with you here. I suppose the heart of the Gospel would be the Kingdom of God on earth. For there is only one God, one King, ruler of all, who created the heavens and the earth. This being the case, no man has the right to rule over another since we are all equally subject to Him and Him alone. Thus there are no real “kings of the earth”, but we are all simply judges of God’s word, each of us having equal right to judge for ourselves(except, of course, in the event that one should violate the right of another). Any man who tries to establish a kingdom other than one which follows God and His laws, will fall to destruction. Until we all come to this realization, there will be no peace or harmony.

The gospel of the kingdom of God is the gospel of Jesus Christ and includes His death, burial and resurrection, the reasons for it and the consequences of it.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”

The gospel does not end at the beginning, but includes all the mysteries;

The mystery of Christ in you the hope of glory

The mysteries of the kingdom of God

The mystery of the Gentiles becoming inheritors with the Jews through the gospel

The mystery of the resurrection of the dead

The mystery of the Bride and the Bridegroom

The mystery of His will and kind intention to restore all things…

All of these things begin at Christ crucified(Alpha) and end with God becoming All in All(Omega)

It is an unfolding revelation, a blooming flower, a morning star rising to full noon…

Eaglesway, If I’m understanding you correctly, you see the gospel as starting with Christ. If so, I suppose my viewpoint would be different. I see the gospel as starting from the beginning of creation. For as it is said, “There is nothing new under the sun.” I believe that things once known get lost in history, especially things from way back in time. So I don’t really see it as something new, but something lost and then found again or in other words, resurrected from the dead.`

I believe Christ is the Logos, and all things start with Him. He is making all things new, and that(to me) is the Good News(gospel- euagelion)

Eaglesway, As you mentioned, I would also have to agree that the gospel consists of more than one thing and includes the fact that God loves us all. I believe the gospel is what brought a lot of people to the New World and is what our founding fathers established this country upon. In looking around the world at the many countries ruled by socialist/communists, I would say that they are in dire need of the gospel. I would also add that if we don’t get busy preaching as well as following the gospel in our own country, we might end up falling to the same fate.

I agree with this LLC. But it is a very broad stroke. The gospel is built(imo) upon the pillars of the two great commands. These teach that we live at the pleasure of God and ought to seek to please Him in our manner of living(1) and that the most effective way to do that is to love our neighbor as ourselves(2).

Jesus said all the law and the prophets are summed up in these two sayings. IMO Jesus was the living embodiment of those two sayings. The kingdom of God is fulfilled in those two sayings as well- and the practical effect of faith in Jesus Christ ought to express itself through those two sayings. The purpose of His sacrifice is to save us from failing in those two pursuits and the power of His resurrection enables us, through the Spirit of grace, to succeed in living within those beautiful parameters.

Western style Christianity is so corrupted, focused on theology and membership in self perpetuating systems, such as the self-help perspective, a kind of “t-shirt Jesus” narcissism, or the 'right-wing we’re so righteous" church culture- that I think what is needed now is equally alien to both western society, eastern(mid asian) and communistic society- not to mention Islamic societies which in a sadly perverse kind of way are almost like the western fundamentalist Christian ethos(or maybe pathos :slight_smile:) of the last 50 years.

A good example of this is our current presidential campaign. Bernie Sanders probably exhibits the values closest to the kingdom of God message Jesus proclaimed, even tho he is an unbeliever and “off” on issues like abortion and gay marriage. Hillary Clinton is a professing Christian as is Donald Trump but wow, how far off of the likeness of Christ can a person get while maintaining that claim? pretty far I guess. Then you have Cruz, Kasaich, Rubio, Carson- all playing the “Christian” card but not one of them speaking with any boldness against corporate oppression and the corruption of government we have abounding in this country.

Its a real conundrum and of late has brought me back somewhat from my activism to a state of prayer from which I understand in a new way the words,

“Come Quickly Lord Jesus!”

Eaglesway, I agree that the two greatest commandments are the very foundation of what we must build all things upon, otherwise it all falls apart.
However, I’d have to say that Bernie Sanders does not represent the gospel in any way shape or form. But, I suppose that would be a whole different topic of discussion. :wink:

Dave, I can see that the passage could be interpreted as his being born in the form of God. I think it refers to his pre-incarnate existence, however, for there are plenty of other passages that indicate this, including his words, “Before Abraham was I am.”

Thanks Paidion, I get what you are saying.
Here is the way I am thinking about it - this is a short excerpt from biblicalunitarian.com, which resonates with things I’ve studied elsewhere as well:

"3. The argument is made that because Jesus was “before” Abraham, Jesus must have been God. There is no question that Jesus figuratively “existed” in Abraham’s time. However, he did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he “existed” in the mind of God as God’s plan for the redemption of man. A careful reading of the context of the verse shows that Jesus was speaking of “existing” in God’s foreknowledge. Verse 56 is accurately translated in the King James Version, which says: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.” This verse says that Abraham “saw” the Day of Christ, which is normally considered by theologians to be the day when Christ conquers the earth and sets up his kingdom. That would fit with what the book of Hebrews says about Abraham: “For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God” (Heb. 11:10). Abraham looked for a city that is still future, yet the Bible says Abraham “saw” it. In what sense could Abraham have seen something that was future? Abraham “saw” the Day of Christ because God told him it was coming, and Abraham “saw” it by faith. Although Abraham saw the Day of Christ by faith, that day existed in the mind of God long before Abraham. Thus, in the context of God’s plan existing from the beginning, Christ certainly was “before” Abraham. Christ was the plan of God for man’s redemption long before Abraham lived. We are not the only ones who believe that Jesus’ statement does not make him God:
To say that Jesus is “before” him is not to lift him out of the ranks of humanity but to assert his unconditional precedence…

  1. In order for the argument that Jesus’ “I am” statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God’s “I am” statement in Exodus 3:14. However, the two statements are very different. While the Greek phrase in John does mean “I am,” the Hebrew phrase in Exodus actually means “to be” or “to become.” In other words God is saying, “I will be what I will be.” Thus the “I am” in Exodus is actually a mistranslation of the Hebrew text, so the fact that Jesus said “I am” did not make him God.

  2. …claim that the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus because he was claiming to be God (John 8:59), but that is an assumption. There is a different explanation that is supported by better evidence: the Jews picked up stones to kill Jesus because they understood he was claiming to be the Messiah. At Jesus’ trial, the High Priest asked, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matt. 26:63). First of all, we should notice that no one at the trial asked Jesus if he were God. However, if they thought he had been claiming to be God, that would have certainly been a question they would have asked. The High Priest asked Jesus in very clear terms if he was the Christ because that is what the Jews knew Jesus was claiming to be. Second, when the Jews heard Jesus’ clear answer (“Yes, it is as you say”), they accused him of blasphemy and said, “He is worthy of death” (Matt. 26:66). They felt he was worthy of death in the record in John 8, but in that record they picked up stones to kill him, while after hearing his “blasphemy” at the trial, they took him to Pilate and got the Romans to execute Jesus."

I think the argument has merit.

Hi Dave,
Yes, I have looked at this Unitarian teachingl, and I have participated in a Christadelphian site as well where the same argument was offered.
I wasn’t using Christ’s statement in an attempt to show that Jesus was the Great “I AM”. I was using it only in the sense of “Before Abraham, I was.” If Jesus WAS before Abraham, then He must have existed before his birth. For Him to have pre-existed, doesn’t imply that He was God Himself, but it does agree with the fact that He is the Son of God, and agrees with the early Christian teaching that He was begotten by God before all ages. That is different from his having been begotten in the womb of Mary his mother. The latter only indicates his beginning as a human being.

My position is that, as the Son of God who was begotten as the first of God’s acts, Jesus was fully divine, and thus another divine Individual, different from God the Father, but just as divine, because He is God’s Son. When people beget offspring, they are human like their parents. When God begets offspring (He begat only One), that offspring is divine like Himself.

Notwithstanding, I am a (small “u”) unitarian, as was Jesus Himself, who addressed his Father as “the only true God” (John 17:3). Jesus, although equally divine with the Father, was not God Himself. Yet, because of his divinity He can be called “God” in the sense of his essence, as John used the word in John 1:1 where he wrote that the Logos (the son of God) was God, or as the grammar allows, "The Logos was God-stuff (or God-essence).

Understood! I’ll keep thinking about it.

:wink:

Dave, I think that the reason the leaders of Israel called Jesus a blasphemer was because He called Himself a Son of God. According to them, they were the son of God. Exodus4:22 says this: “Thus says the Lord, Israel is My son, My firstborn.” However, they were not following God’s word. They were following their own interpretations of the scriptures. The leaders themselves were the only ones that were able to interpret the scriptures properly; all the rest being simple-minded humans with no knowledge of the divine.

Paidion, According to Jeremiah 1:4-5 “Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying; Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” Jeremiah was also a son of God.
Proverbs 8: 22 says this of wisdom “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, before His works of old, I have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.” Is wisdom a separate “person” of God? I believe we all have some of the divine essence of God. If we do not have this then how are we to follow God’s word and do as Jesus did? How are we then sons of God? Psalm 82:6 “Yoou are all sons of the Most High.” Romans 8:14 “For as many are as led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.”

One reason they wanted to stone Him was because by declaring Himself to be their Messiah, He was making Himself their ruler, and they did not want to be ruled by anyone who would over turn their tables, tear down their temple, lay the axe to the trees, and declare their traditions to be contrary to the living word of YHWH.

He likened them to Cain for a reason. The way of Cain was in them. Greedy, vain, murderous to retain their glory, resentful of the anointing upon Him and the favor shown Him by the people- they were conspiring to kill Him early on.

He claimed to have received from the Father “all authority on heaven and earth”. He called them snakes, hypocrites, wolves and sheep’s clothing, open graves in the night, son of the devil, murderers.

That could still get a body stoned today :wink:

Eaglesway, I totally agree with you here. Those who do not believe in God, think they themselves are God and are all to eager to gain power and control over others anyway they can. This includes deceit, bribery, theft, taking advantage of those who do not know he truth, and murdering those who live and speak the truth of God.

Yes, tho all of those who wished to stone Him laid claim to great faith in God

“We are the sons of Abraham, God is our father”

“if you were sons of Abraham, you would not be trying to kill me”

The appearance of service to God has been one of the greatest cloaks for evil all over the world through out the age. Islam and Catholicism. The nationalistic Protestantism of late middle age Europe, contemporary Western right wing fundamentalism and American cultural Christianity.

I truly think that they would all try to stone Him along side the Jews and the Romans again, today.

For instance, if Jesus were here he would not speak against abortion without speaking against the inequity that poverty and racism contributes to it. He would speak to the narcissism of our self-centered Christianity.

He would go to the core of our crookedness.

“Why fight against Islam all over the world when you are losing the war on poverty within your own borders?” “Why make speeches about the oppression of totalitarian regimes as you commit crimes through corrupting the law- helping the strong to rob the weak?” “Why act so horrified over societal sin when you have no salt in you when it comes to defending the fatherless and the aged and widows.”

I think Jesus drew these lines of connection as a part of His gospel,even as the prophets of Israel had, and that is where the “alien-ness” of it is rooted. It teaches fulfillment through caring for others and that God will multiply resources when men are faithful. We(proverbial) teach judging others and caring for ourselves and marvel that our once abundant resources are never enough to make things work. All the while we call upon God to defend us from foes who are empowered by our hypocrisy, and act as if we are righteous, you kno, with a few shortcomings, you know, not perfect but…

IMO, if we dropped food and medicine all over the world the ability to recruit disenfranchised young men into terrorist gangs would be greatly reduced, and God would take up our defense in ways that we do not understand.

The natural man’s service consumes massive resources while accomplishing little and praising itself. True spiritual service multiplies minimal resources, accomplishing much and giving credit to God.

" And they were all as one soul, and great grace was upon them, and no one among them had any need."

The second-century Christian writers, without exception, affirmed that this passage referred to Jesus, the only-begotten Son of God. They wrote that “Wisdom” is one of His many names.

I hear you Eaglesway. As Deuteronomy 5:32 states “Therefore you shall be careful to do as the Lord your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.” Evil comes in many disguises, but the most cunning of all are those who put on the mask of righteousness. This lesson starts at the very beginning of The Bible in the Garden of Eden. There are two trees which both look the same at first, but we see the difference in the fruit that they bear. I, for one, don’t believe that God created man perfect in the sense that He created us without the potential to sin and that we were flawless. Because of this there will always be social and economic disparity. However I do believe that all men are created equal with certain unalienable rights. Being all equal does not mean people don’t have differences. Some who don’t believe in God have a different worldview. There are those who think there is no God because if there is one, there would be no evil, no suffering, no pain or death. Evolutionists tend to think that we evolved from apes, and we will eventually progress to a state of perfection. To them, it’s not right or fair that some have more and some have less. This isn’t fair, that isn’t fair, etc.etc.etc… They simply cannot accept that the world is not a perfect place, and so they paint a picture of some utopian society and say man WILL make it so. To me, this is the mind of a socialist and is the Tower of Babel. Socialism may look and sound righteous, but it is not the gospel of Christ. We need only look at history to see what socialism leads to.By necessity it ends in a communist dictatorship where all are slaves to a ruling class, and there is no freedom. To think that it will end any differently is a deception. Whether a person is rich or poor, be it money or labor, Jesus never said to take anything from anybody to help or provide for those in need. He said to give willingly from the heart. For God is neither a dictator, nor a thief. Will this world ever be a perfect place? I don’t know, maybe, but if so then there is only one way to get there and that is to follow all that God has commanded and shown us to do.

The kingdom of God is coming :astonished:)

He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds of flour until it worked all through the dough.”

It is happening because of His kind intention He purposed in Himself who causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will. \o/

“Be of good courage and wait upon the Lord. Wait I say, upon the Lord”

Eaglesway, I agree, and I’d say that the kingdom of God starts the day one wakes up and discovers that God is your Father, and you are His son/daughter; that you will follow in His footsteps, live life to the fullest and be the best son/daughter you can possibly be. To me, that’s a divine revelation. :slight_smile: