Knowledge vs Faith

Discussions pertaining to scripture and theology from a philosophical approach.

Knowledge vs Faith

Postby Robert » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:25 pm

I think Kant has been the most noted philosophically to draw this distinction. I am wondering though if eve had never eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good &evil, would we have never needed faith??? The relationship had between God & Adam & Eve was free from any dysfunction right?? I wonder how much intellectual knowledge A & E had of everything involving God??? Faith = trust so in that sense then A&E had solid faith. John at the end of his gospels writes, * these things are written that you make KNOW Jesus is the Christ and by believing have life in His name* What are the lines of demarcation drawn between knowledge,faith and believing?? Just a lil jumble of stuff in my head hope it has some clarity for you all to comment on :D
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Re: Knowledge vs Faith

Postby DaveB » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:02 pm

This is an oblique way of looking at the question, but pertinent I think: http://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/ ... sions.html


I'm sure you realize that the subject of this thread has been written about since - well, since writing was invented, probably. You could not do much better than Aquinas on the subject, but reading him is a huge undertaking. This article from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy is not a bad starting point.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aquinas/#The

Good luck.
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.
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Re: Knowledge vs Faith

Postby Robert » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:40 pm

Dave- indeed i am very aware of the history of writing on this issue. I just wanted a lil addition to it all from all the good folks who reside on here. I will check out your links when i have time for a lil *light reading* :lol: :o :shock: :roll: :P

I once read through Cornelio Fabros book *God In Exile* and took painstaking notes. It is a history of atheistic thought. What makes you such an Aquinas aficionado???
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Re: Knowledge vs Faith

Postby Eaglesway » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:14 pm

2 Corinthians 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.

2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

Titus 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,

Versus? :)

If faith opens the eyes of the heart, understanding supports wisdom and knowledge. But without faith, there is no understanding even when there is knowledge. Wisdom will guide the faithful heart in the acquisition and application of appropriate knowledge.

By wisdom a house is built,
And by understanding it is established;
And by knowledge the rooms are filled
With all precious and pleasant riches. (Prov 24:3,4)
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Re: Knowledge vs Faith

Postby LLC » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:35 pm

The story of Adam and Eve is not just about two people. To me, it is the story of man and mankind, reflecting not only man as an individual, but the life of a society, a nation, periods of human history etc. It's about being human, and this is they way we shall all go to some degree or another. ( The son of man goes as it is written of him.) Looking at it from an individual point of view, we all start out as children, doing the things we are told to do because we trust and believe in what others say. As we grow, we begin to see the world around us. The things we see may contradict what we've been told, and so we start to doubt. At this stage, we don't know what to believe because we don't have enough knowledge and experience yet. It is not until we go out and experience things for ourselves that our eyes slowly begin to open up to the truth of the things that we have been told in the past. Some will learn more quickly than others. Some will have few stripes, some will have many. But by these stripes we will be healed.
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Re: Knowledge vs Faith

Postby Robert » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:25 pm

I wanted to come back to this as i have a few thoughts which have been rattling inside my noggin :lol: 8-) Knowledge is a key term within the Bible. The tree of the knowledge of good & evil, knowing good & evil, adam knew eve, be still and know that i am God,come to tyhrt in a previous post. What are all the definitions for knowledge and knowing here??? Western society has always tilted the scales to intellectual,rational knowledge especially since the enlightenment. It would seem though that our knowing God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit would be more experiential/emotional as opposed to 1 + 1 = 2 type knowledge. Going back to the question of *what is truth?* though, hichow do we arrive at an absolute knowledge which is 100% the sole basis for everyone??? @Cindyskillman said Jesus is truth and of course He self-identifies as such. How are we to understand and implement that though?? Why are there so many variants on exactly what jesus meant by that?? Look forward to all your responses :D ;)
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Re: Knowledge vs Faith

Postby Paidion » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:29 pm

Robert, you wrote:I am wondering though if eve had never eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good &evil, would we have never needed faith???


It is impossible to live a day of our lives without faith.

When you get into your car and turn the key, you are exercising faith in the motor of your car. You trust that it will start, or have faith that it will start. But you don't KNOW that it will start. Sometimes people who have exercised such faith in their car, were disappointed. Their car did NOT start.

Whenever you sit in a chair, you exercise faith in the chair that it will support you. But you don't KNOW that it will support you; it might not. On one occasion I saw a man beginning to sit in a chair and the chair collapsed under him.

If we had no faith, we would never be able to take any action at all in this life.

Our faith in God does not differ in substance from our faith in our cars or our chairs; it differs only in the object of our faith.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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Re: Knowledge vs Faith

Postby St. Michael » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:46 pm

Voices From Another World

Made from stardust and dirty clay
We live a life of slow decay
From infant, adult, to death we go
Maybe to a world of wonder and glow
I can't be sure of this place, you see
But I see clues of it's existence in mystery
In the beautiful sun and flowers of spring
In the wonderful colors and fragrance they bring
When I'm still and silent I hear them speak
Tender words of love; merciful and meek
Enveloping my soul, these words seem true
They speak of another place for me and you
Where the hurting are healed and weak are strong
Where there is nothing but good and we all belong
But maybe there is no land of the free
I guess I'll just have to wait and see
For now I just listen to the beauties that sing
While I enjoy the tune and wonder they bring

Faith is an inner assurance of the heart not the head. The heart has it's reasons of which reason will never know
God is the all-glorious, all-knowing, infinitely wise, self-sufficient, all-powerful one. I'm nothing. I'm powerless and depend on Him. I humble myself in surrendered trust in His Divine Providence.
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