Dandelion wrote:For me, reason and faith do not agree. Reason is of the flesh, and faith and hope are of the Spirit.
Within the heart, love draws us back to oneness. The heart knows and lives in this oneness, and love takes us from separation to union, from the knowledge of our own self to being lost in God. Love comes from the beyond and carries the stamp of oneness: that He and His creation are one. This is why love is like a magnet that draws us from duality back to oneness. We experience this in human love, how we want to get nearer and nearer to the one we love: emotionally we want to merge, physically we want to unite. Love is a force that pulls us toward union. In human love we are always limited by the fact there are two people. In divine love there is no such limitation. In meditation we can give ourselves completely, merge into the ocean of love, experience the complete oneness that is found within the heart.
Jonny95 wrote:Dandelion wrote:For me, reason and faith do not agree. Reason is of the flesh, and faith and hope are of the Spirit.
And what are you using other than reason in order to justify that opinion or even to just state it in the first place?
Joe wrote:I know from our basic perspective, it [faith] is belief in something without reason, proof, or evidence.
Joe121589 wrote:I dont know if anyone has heard of or knows about Eckhart Tolle. He is a spiritual teacher and author of "The power of Now" and "A New Earth". The premise of his teaching is that thought and intellect are not the highest form of consciousness, and how our minds often times are a great obstacle to reaching enlightenment. From his story, he was always seeking out spiritual knowledge through philosophy, and intellectual grasping, until one night he was anxious, depressed and worn, and thought to himself that he could not live with himself, and came to a realization that "You are not your mind". His technique to stop obsessive thinking is to become fully present in the Now. He refers to the false sense of self as the ego, which are identifications with finite things, or to find our identity in idols according to Judeo-Christian terminology.
Jonny95 wrote:The problem for me is treating reason as antithetic to faith. Saying that reason is the greatest enemy that faith has, as Luther argues, is not only massively self contradictory (he's having to use reason to even state it let alone believe it) it's also quite a poor witness. Saying to people that they shouldn't use reason but should just have faith is to reason with them by telling them they shouldn't have reason! It's complete nonsense. That's not even mentioning the times where the Bible exhorts people to use their reason.
Having said that, I don't believe that faith is primarily a thing of the intellect but rather a thing of the will and I think this is where there needs to be a distinction between faith and reason (which maybe could even fit in to the 'Two Kingdoms' idea!). Faith isn't against reason - it's on the side of reason - but it's not something that is primarily 'to do' with reason, if that makes sense. Just to illustrate that, I saw a video online the other day where an atheist was addressing religious people, asking why faith was a better 'tool' for knowing and finding out about the universe than reason. Fundamentally, the problem with that is that faith itself is not a methodology for making intellectual discoveries. It's about a union with Christ, being connected to the source of all life, trusting in Him, obeying Him, conforming to His will, being faithful to Him. j I think there's an element of mystery about faith but that's how I understand it to be.
That's why Paul can say that everything not of faith is sin - he doesn't mean everything not done by 'blind trust' is sin or that anything you use your reason for is sin. That would be daft.
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