I believe in God, the Father almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried; he descended into hell; on the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen
Caleb Fogg wrote:Are you saying that God is transcendent but not immanent? And are you implying that because of God's transcendence, we cannot say that apparent design in creation points to a Designer?
Caleb Fogg wrote:Can you say a bit more about how this understanding of God would rule out intelligent design, per your OP?
If God is the cause of everything, there is nothing that he is alongside. Obviously God makes no difference to the universe; I mean by this that we do not appeal specifically to God to explain why the universe is this way rather than that, for this we need only appeal to explanations within the universe. For this reason there can, it seems to me, be no feature of the universe which indicates it is God-made. What God accounts for is that the universe is there rather than nothing. ... Whatever God is, he is not a member of everything, not an inhabitant of the universe, not a thing of a kind of thing. (God Matters, p. 6)
Cindy Skillman wrote:Okay, I think I begin to follow you now, Akimel. I just sort of expected something I might disagree with, but so far I haven't seen anything.
For this reason there can, it seems to me, be no feature of the universe which indicates it is God-made.
The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
...what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Caleb Fogg wrote:akimel wrote:
Both of these texts speak of what may be known, or knowledge. Now I do not believe that the existence of God can be proven from creation, or that it gives us certainty, but I do believe we can have confident knowledge in his existence based on the glory, majesty, and intricacy of the created order.
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