The Evangelical Universalist Forum

are all men sinners ?

some angels are not sinners, why should men be ALL sinners ?
Adam and Eve can’t decide for all men to be sinners
sincerely i don’t understand why every human decide to sin

maybe (i may be wrong) there are humans which have no body life which are not sinners, psalms 14:2 speaks about the sons of Adam
I AM PROBABLY WRONG , but i don’t understand why EVERY human sin,
i have not think a lot about this question, maybe you know more than me about
thank you for your help

romans 3:10-18 speaks about body : throat,feet,eyes,mouth…

Rom 5:12-21 NET The Amplification of Justification

So then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned — for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam (who is a type of the coming one) transgressed.

But the gracious gift is not like the transgression. For if the many died through the transgression of the one man, how much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ multiply to the many! And the gift is not like the one who sinned.

For judgment, resulting from the one transgression, led to condemnation, but the gracious gift from the many failures led to justification.

For if, by the transgression of the one man, death reigned through the one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ!

Consequently, just as condemnation for all people came through one transgression, so too through the one righteous act came righteousness leading to life for all people.

For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man many will be made righteous. Now the law came in so that the transgression may increase, but where sin increased, grace multiplied all the more, so that just as sin reigned in death, so also grace will reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

You are probably right
but let’s notice that it is spoken of “many”
“all sinned” : all men which have physical life sin , that is why there is physical death
i have to recognize that the traditionnal doctrine is nearer the text, more accurate
but i believe in individual responsability concerning our relationship with God
nobody can say something like : “i sin because my ancestors Adam and Eve sinned”

Nobody can say I sin because my parents sin. Sin came alive when the commandment was given, before the command sin was not taken into account. Who is responsible for the commandment, and who knew that moment it was given, it gave life to sin?

What you need to look at Erwan, is what is ‘sin’ and why does it exist.

Most people will tell you sin is doing ‘sinful acts’, but this is circular argument because sinful acts still somehow are considered sinful. What makes these acts ‘sinful’ to begin with and why it that I am justified and declared righteous if I still do what others make consider sin?

You are correct, it is the individual who is responsible for their relationship with God and I would add, it is God’s responsibility for His relationship with the individual as well.

Today, there are many who are not sinners, but that is not because they have not sinned. I am not a sinner, but I have sinned. The reason?

Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Good thoughts, thanks for the question.

Oh and there is no such thing as a Celestial Angel of God who has ever sinned.

Hi, Erwan

It seems to me from this passage that the “many” refers to all others besides the one with whom the “many” are being contrasted; first Adam, then Christ. And of course elsewhere we read “all have sinned” and in this passage, “death came to all because all sinned.” So I think it makes sense to see “the many” as contrasted with “the one.” In this case “the many” would refer to all with the exception of “the One.”

Blessings, Cindy

Just what IS “sin”? Is a 3-month old baby as sinner? Apparently the early Catholics thought so (as well as many of the modern ones). That’s why it is necessary to “baptize” young babies in case they die and go to hell.

What sin does the young infant commit? Is it sinning because it cries when it is hungry, or when its soiled diapers become uncomfortable?

Is a severely mentally challenged adult a sinner? Will he go to hell if he dies?

I would say no, Paidion. Paul also said, “I was alive once but then the law revived and I died.” (more or less, to the best of my memory). I’ve always thought he must be talking about his first experience of doing something wrong which he knew to be wrong – but maybe I’m wrong. :wink: So what would YOUR explanation of this be? You’re right to point out that if all refers to all (as we universalists like to point out), that “all” would refer to infants as well. But I’m pretty sure infants can’t sin as individuals (though they are presumably members of the fallen race of Adam, which is probably at least part of the rationale for baptizing them).

Nevertheless, babies do die. So even though they haven’t sinned like Adam did, they’re still under the curse of sin (or whatever it ought to be called, if that’s the wrong terminology). Mentally handicapped people die (although unless they’re very severely handicapped indeed, I think that most people who have sufficient brain power to live, also have at some point done something they knew (or believed) to be wrong.)

Death came to all because all sinned . . . Watchman Nee would say that we sinned in Adam just as Aaron paid tithes in Abraham to Melchizedek. What do you say?

For mine, I’m inclined to ask… what other questions actually lay behind the above question? We all breathe – that must make us all “breathers”. IOW IMO it’s a bit of a “yeah ok, so what’s your point?” type of question. The fact is we all sin… but big deal. The greater deal is, SIN is no longer held to man’s charge because Jesus bore that charge and its consequent penalty at Calvary.

The weird thing is we believers talk so much about freedom yet we are so terribly “SIN CONSCIOUS”. IF Christ has set us free from sin then why are we in Christendom some of the most “sin conscious” people on the planet? Why has “controlling sin” become our primary focus? One reason might be that it gives us that sense of control, something we will struggle to maintain at any cost – we like to pull the strings. “Sin consciousness” is an absolutely huge issue – we “believers” tend to say we believe one thing, but then our actions or qualifying caveats put lie to the very thing we say is true.

Heb 10:1-4 *For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. *

How is it that the blood of bulls and goats could cover the sins of Israel for a whole 12 months, even to the degree that all Israel could rejoice and celebrate seeing the High Priest return from the Holy of Hollies, KNOWING that the sacrifice for sins had been accepted by God… BUT, the blood of Jesus Christ is seemingly powerless to remove the consciousness of sins for a measly 12 minutes before we start ruminating on the next possible list of moral infraction? And yet we say we believe that Jesus “tasted death for every man” in “taking away sin by the sacrifice of himself”.

As long as we have a “sin consciousness” to promote, to that degree we dull the efficacy of the Cross. I’m NOT talking about having a “seared conscience” but rather the reality of what Paul said about reckoning ourselves “dead to sin” – which has NOTHING to do with moral or behavioural modification and perfectionism; but everything to do with grasping how God sees humanity as fully reconciled and forgiven – and so living and sharing in the reality of this.