You wrote:But a bigger question for non-dualists is: how can 'meat' be self-aware and conscious of itself? Those are NOT qualities of materials, they are qualities of self-conscious persons.
Did someone Divine die on the cross? Did an eternal god of some sort actually die?
-He could not be born with any memories of his eternal experiences or knowledge - any more than other actual humans are.
-He could not have two natures (which noone can explain anyway), any more than other actual humans do.
-He (as a pre-existing Being) was not actually made flesh - He did not inhabit a freshly-made but inanimate body, nor was he, as an eternal Spirit, fashioned into a body.
-To be human, he had to come from a fertilized egg and grow as we all do.
-If He really, really was a man, he grew and learned and developed without having ANY attributes or consciousness of being Deity at all, other than is common to all men.
1. The 'logos ' became flesh is, to me at least, the fact that all of the Father's desires, aims, reasons - in other words, the Word he wanted to make flesh - were in fact brought to fruition in the flesh of the actual human Jesus of Nazareth. I do not understand the verse to be referring at all to a pre-existent divine being. It is the 'word' - God's fullest expression - that became flesh.
2. I think that to die AS a MAN rules out the possibility of the two natures - what other human being died having the 'nature' of God as well as a human nature?
3. No matter how we conceive it (no pun) - under your scenario, it sounds like a divine Being was brought into existence by the Father, then at some point, ceased that eternal existence, was somehow conceived in a womb and born like the rest of us. If He had the advantage of gradually recovering all the experience and knowledge He had from eternity, he certainly died in a human body, but not as a human being. I could be wrong about this (duh!) but I am trying to hold us to the fact that the scripture points Him out as a MAN.
For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Laurie wrote:Jesus is God.
Steve 7150 wrote:Didn't the human Jesus die since in Phil 2.7 Paul said Jesus "emptied himself" apparently of his divine attributes.
pdf article wrote:So Jesus' "being in the image / form of God" means that, as the human Messiah, he was the visible image of God, having divine status. As Son of God he had the right to function as God as had the rulers in Israel who functioned as 'gods' (Ps 82:6 ; John 10:34). Eg "See I have made you [ Moses ] God to Pharaoh" Ex 7:1. Also in Mark 2:7 the scribes state: "who can forgive sins except one, God ?" Yet this authority was delegated to Jesus by God as vs 10 says "But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins upon the earth." Jesus was also granted authority to raise the dead. (John 5:21). Further, "all judgment has been entrusted to the Son" (John 5:22,23). Therefore he functions as God but is not of God's essence or substance.
pdf article wrote:Therefore in his life course Jesus (Messiah-the man) laid aside such rightful dignity, prerogatives, privileges, and rulership; humbling himself to live a life of servitude which ended with his death. Would the Philippians be asked to copy the impossible example of emptying themselves of their essence? Rather, they were to 'empty' themselves of their contentious, egotistical and selfish nature and imitate Jesus' lifetime example of humility and self-sacrifice. Paul does not appeal to us to be like an archangel or heavenly being. He appeals to us to be humble servants as humans.
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