The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The nature of the lake of fire...

I started this based on a discussion from the “Top six verses” thread because I didnt want to derail that thread, but was enjoying the subject that emerged.

Cindy posted

Paidon posted

I agree it is figurative, in my view of being surrounded and or penetrated by the light/fire of His presence(bringing a “krisis” of judgment/discernment/exposure/tribunal). A process that is ongoing as we live and will continue after that in some process of bringing repentence to adversaries and accountability for all.

I see that these principles are the same in all these verses.

But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.…… for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. Rom 2

Then I saw a great white throne and the One who sat on it. The earth and the heavens fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.… Rev 21

So we aspire to please Him, whether we are here in this body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad. 11Therefore, since we know what it means to fear of the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well.…2 Cor 5

We see in Mt 25, the connection to judgment and “DEEDS” “I was thirsty and you gave no drink…depart from me…”

12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight; everything is uncovered and exposed before the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.…Heb 4

Here we see “thoughts and intentions(secret motivations)”, as we do in the next verses.

Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The next two portions are consistent with the principles in 2 Peter 3 …

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.Heb 10

25See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven. 26And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “YET ONCE MORE I WILL SHAKE NOT ONLY THE EARTH, BUT ALSO THE HEAVEN.” 27This expression, “Yet once more,” denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; 29for our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12

The wording in the verses in Heb 12 and the verses in 2 Peter 3 are very similar

This expression, “Yet once more,” denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; 29for our God is a consuming fire…

“…the heavens will be dissolved by burning heat and the earth and the works in it will be exposed” . 2 Pet 3

It seems possible to me that if “death and the grave” are cast into the lake of fire in order to be dissolved there is a parallel to 2 Peter 3:9

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

4747
stoicheia
elements

de
moreover

2741
kausoumena
burning with heat

3089
lythēsetai
will be dissolved

2532
kai

and

1093

[the] earth

2532
kai
and

3588
ta
the

1722
en
in

846
autē
it

2041
erga
works

2147
heurethēsetai
will be exposed

“…the heavens will be dissolved by burning heat and the earth and the works in it will be exposed” This descibes(imo) perfectly what the lake of fire does as the second death, and may be what occurs to those thrown into it.

The burning heat of the presence of the Lord, His face like sun shining in its strength(dissolution of darkness) and His eyes like flames of fire(exposure)

also perhaps a parallel in Rev 14:10

basanisthēsetai
he will be tormented

1722
en
in

4442
pyri
fire

2532
kai
and

2303
theiō
brimstone

1799
enōpion
before

32
angelōn
angels

40
hagiōn
[the] holy

2532
kai
and

1799
enōpion
before

3588
tou
the

721
Arniou
Lamb

A definition of basanizo: I examine, as by torture; I torment; I buffet, as of waves.

He will be buffeted by waves (of light/fire?maybe) in the presence(before the faces) of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

It is interesting to note that some of these verses apply to believers/disciples nd some to unbelievers/adversaries but the underlying principles seem to me to be the same in all of them, and the relationship between deeds and the motivations for them is inextricable from the ongoing process of fire that begins with discipleship and concludes in the accountability of the DAY, and is about the testing and revealing of the heart and the motivations of it in our deeds and thoughts and words.

I, a relatively new believer in UR, still do not have a firm grip on these concepts, as it might apply to explain this to someone who is a Christian, but does not believe in UR.

But, I believe the Lake of Fire is a pivotal point for many, and needs to be understood and studied, because, it is one thing to have a perfunctory understanding of it, but, to explain it and to discuss it with someone who has another perspective, is not easy, when one does not have a tight grasp on it.

I will print this one out, study it, and save it, for such occasions! :smiley:

D.