Whose Faith?

Theology from a biblical approach. Topics posted should have a direct relationship to scripture.

Re: Whose Faith?

Postby DaveB » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:42 pm

Paidion wrote:Sure, I'd say that. But the BIG question is, "What do various people MEAN when they state that 'Jesus is God'?"


My point exactly.
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby LLC » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:29 pm

steve7150 wrote:Why not "The Word is God" , because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us therefore Jesus is God like the Word was God. It seems to me the Father is the source and from him came the Spirit and the Word


Our bodies are the temple of God.When we live in the Spirit of God according to his word, then God dwells among us. God dwelt among people many times in the past. For example, Exodus 29:45 says this: "I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate Aaron and his sons to minister as priests to Me. I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God."

This did not make them God. It did not make Jesus God, nor does it make us God.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby steve7150 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:34 am

steve7150 wrote:
Why not "The Word is God" , because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us therefore Jesus is God like the Word was God. It seems to me the Father is the source and from him came the Spirit and the Word


Our bodies are the temple of God.When we live in the Spirit of God according to his word, then God dwells among us. God dwelt among people many times in the past. For example, Exodus 29:45 says this: "I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate Aaron and his sons to minister as priests to Me. I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God."

This did not make them God. It did not make Jesus God, nor does it make us God.






Yes i agree but that was not my point.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby Holy-Fool-P-Zombie » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:44 am

steve7150 wrote:steve7150 wrote:
Why not "The Word is God" , because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us therefore Jesus is God like the Word was God. It seems to me the Father is the source and from him came the Spirit and the Word


Our bodies are the temple of God.When we live in the Spirit of God according to his word, then God dwells among us. God dwelt among people many times in the past. For example, Exodus 29:45 says this: "I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate Aaron and his sons to minister as priests to Me. I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God."

This did not make them God. It did not make Jesus God, nor does it make us God.


Yes i agree but that was not my point.


I have some related comments on this, from another thread here at http://www.evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6528&start=200#p112830

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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby LLC » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:35 pm

steve7150 wrote:steve7150 wrote:
Why not "The Word is God" , because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us therefore Jesus is God like the Word was God. It seems to me the Father is the source and from him came the Spirit and the Word


Our bodies are the temple of God.When we live in the Spirit of God according to his word, then God dwells among us. God dwelt among people many times in the past. For example, Exodus 29:45 says this: "I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate Aaron and his sons to minister as priests to Me. I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God."

This did not make them God. It did not make Jesus God, nor does it make us God.








Yes i agree but that was not my point.


Steve, From what I understand, the Spirit of God that is in man is the Word. When we obey that Spirit, the Word becomes flesh( the living Word) We dwell in God, God dwells in us and God dwells among us. Again, this does not make us God. God is not a man. Man is not God. However, God is a part of man.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby steve7150 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:26 am

Steve, From what I understand, the Spirit of God that is in man is the Word. When we obey that Spirit, the Word becomes flesh( the living Word) We dwell in God, God dwells in us and God dwells among us. Again, this does not make us God. God is not a man. Man is not God. However, God is a part of man.







Well obviously you can come to your own understanding but i'm not aware of several of your conclusions being spelled out in scripture. This last conclusion, "God is a part of man" is ambiguous because scripture says that the Holy Spirit indwells us or may even fill us but i don't know how that means "God is a part of man."? The Holy Spirit can also leave us IMO therefore i don't see it as part of us, like an arm or leg.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby Paidion » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:06 pm

Steve wrote:Why not "The Word is God"?


One could ask the same question concerning the preceding clause. "Why not 'The word is with God'?"

The answer to both questions is answered in the first clause "In the beginning was the Word." All three clauses state the relationship between the Word and God IN THE BEGINNING.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby steve7150 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:25 am

One could ask the same question concerning the preceding clause. "Why not 'The word is with God'?"

The answer to both questions is answered in the first clause "In the beginning was the Word." All three clauses state the relationship between the Word and God IN THE BEGINNING.






Right and good observation. But presumably God spoke after Jesus birth yet we never hear God's word referred to as God anymore. So i guess it's a symbolic expression and that description did in fact transfer to Jesus.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby LLC » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:53 pm

steve7150 wrote:Well obviously you can come to your own understanding but i'm not aware of several of your conclusions being spelled out in scripture. This last conclusion, "God is a part of man" is ambiguous because scripture says that the Holy Spirit indwells us or may even fill us but i don't know how that means "God is a part of man."? The Holy Spirit can also leave us IMO therefore i don't see it as part of us, like an arm or leg.


Steve, man is made of more than just physical matter. We were given a spirit that comes from God.
Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."
Eccl. 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

Besides that, I believe even physical matter is a part of God. One cannot create something out of nothing, and if God is the only thing that exists eternally, then everything created has to be a part of the eternal God.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby davo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:50 am

LLC wrote:Besides that, I believe even physical matter is a part of God.

Commonly called… panentheism.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby steve7150 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:34 am

The answer to both questions is answered in the first clause "In the beginning was the Word." All three clauses state the relationship between the Word and God IN THE BEGINNING.








Why does "in the beginning" preclude the connection after "in the beginning"?
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby Paidion » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:27 am

Yes, "panentheism" (which literally means "all in God").

Most Christians hold that God is transcendent—id est, that He it totally other than the creation.

And by the way, lest the idea enters someone's head, I am NOT suggesting that what most Christians believe is necessarily true.
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Re: Whose Faith?

Postby St. Michael » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:14 pm

While God is transcendent and far above His creatures the paradox is that He is imminent and pervades the universe. Theologians usually speak of the omnipresence of God within the universe. The way I put it is that there are ways we are like God and ways we are not. It's the paradox of union and separation. His energy of love unites us to Him while His divine holiness separates us from Him. Holiness when applied to God refers to everything that separates Him from His creation and creatures:

God is self- sufficient, omnipresent, perfect, all-powerful, all-knowing, infinite, eternal, in control of the universe, infinitely wise, while we are not. There are Creator - creature distinctions.
God is the all-glorious, all-knowing, infinitely wise, self-sufficient, all-powerful one. I'm nothing. I'm powerless and depend on Him. I humble myself in surrendered trust in His Divine Providence.
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