The Evangelical Universalist Forum

What is justification and why is it necessary?

I feel like it is important to learn what God has done through Christ and in Christ (there is a difference, I think), and preterists and others rightly point to many of those things.

What God has freely done by grace (undeserved Love) does not entail that all people are ‘saved’ or filled with the Spirit - obviously - and if they are not, they are not ‘sons of God’ in that sense. We who lived in the 20th century know for certain what happens when people are not led by the Holy Spirit, yes?

“All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

That portion I bolded points to what the job of Christ’s ambassadors IS. To show by our lives, preaching, anyway we can, what God has done in Christ and imploring people TO BE reconciled - that is, they have to do something. If they don’t, then they have not reconciled themselves to God, even though God has reconciled the world to Himself.

That imploring reaches to us today.

I subscribe to the Evangelical and Catholic newsletters at patheos.com/. This story came from the Evangelical newsletter. And it’s an update, from one of Christ’s parables. Let me quote a bit - for reflection,

The Parable of the Good Muslim

Just a footnote here. If the man in the parable, ever makes it to Huston, Texas USA…Then he can visit the church, of TV evangelist Joel Osteen. :laughing:

Good for him!

LLC said

Could be or maybe we are what God the Father envisioned ? Have a little faith LLC! :wink:

MM, I believe there were some civilizations in the past that were highly intelligent, probably even more so than we are today. But, such knowledge can be used for both the good and the bad. I think I’ll pass when it comes to the chip in the brain. :laughing:

Chip in the brain, other civilizations, where did these come from? :open_mouth:

My personal opinion is justification is being declared righteous by Christs faith and righteousness. The free gift of Grace given to all those forechosen to believe the death,burial,and resurrection of Christ. Apart from our own works designated to us. And this is why we walk by faith of Christ instead of perception of ourselves.

This I believe was the radicalism of Paul. Part of the mystery revealed to Him. That it is by Grace, not works lest it cease to be Grace.

And good works are not a condition to Grace and are not of ourselves but are a byproduct of God’s grace upon you, working His good will through you. “…but more abundantly did I labor, yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me” (1 Corinthians 15:10 )

Or in other words justification is being declared righteous in the eyes of God by Christs faith and works. And you are a catalyst for the good works that follow, not the source. Nor is works a condition upon receiving Grace.

The horse (Grace) needs to be put before the cart (works) and a horse without a cart is still a horse. And God is the one who hitches the cart to the horse.

Never really looked into the term, the differences, or know what I would be considered.

I just know Christ died as a propitiation for sin.

Declared righteous in the eyes of God” whether the person is actually righteous or not! This is a common view, but seems deceptive. Why should Christ’s faith and works cause God to be blinded to the reality of anyone’s evil behaviour? How is the person’s wicked behaviour ever going to be corrected, if he is acceptable to God just as he is? He will see no need to change his behaviour.

Paidion I certainly agree. It took me years of clinging to ‘righteous by faith’ even though it was obvious that not much had changed - to finally get a little sick of it and start crying out for change in my life - and realizing I had been graced by the Father with the freedom to make some of those changes.
Let me be clear that I am completely thankful for what the Father has done through Christ.

Thank you for sharing that, Dave. I, also, am completely thankful for what the Father has done through Christ.

At a teenager, I was exposed only to the easy believism which both you and I adopted. When we understand salvation to be deliverance from SIN, we then understand the purpose of the death of Christ.

As the angel announced to Joseph:

She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21)

I now see this deliverance from sin as a life-long process, which will some day be brought to completion. That was the teaching of the apostle Paul:

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)

This is the way the Orthodox Church views salvation, also. You may appreciate this video in which Metropolitan Kallistos Ware tells how he responded to a man sitting opposite to him in an railway train, fixed him with a piercing gaze and asked, “Are you saved?”

I’ve seen that before and it’s GREAT!
BTW I tend to understand ‘righteousness’ in this way:

http://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/righteousness/

and on ‘becoming the righteousness of God’ in this way:
http://ntwrightpage.com/files/2016/05/Wright_Becoming_Righteousness.pdf

YAY - I got a click!!! Wait - that was me :frowning:

Already been there.

By works no man is justified…

For the rest of us, the pdf mentioned above is an actual exegesis of 2 Cor 5.21.

I was delivered from sin. Both relatively and absolutely. But I dont believe it was of my own free will. But I digress on that subject as we beat that horse deader than dead last time :stuck_out_tongue:

Me an paidon are having a interesting conversation about this in the works/faith topic and I think I’ve done quite well explaining my position on it if you’re curious how i view things.

I read you with interest.
I thought instead of ‘how we see it’ that a bit of rigorous exegesis might be in order; thus the pdf above.

I’ll check it out when i get a second but I’m not too big on what theologians say much. I’ve prayed on this a lot. And I’m adamant about not mixing my faith and works with Christ’s faith and works which is what saves me for eonian salvation.

Even my measure of faith has been given to me. Not earned or accepted by my will.

That’s fine.
It will take much longer than a second though :slight_smile:
It’s a very thorough explanation of what Paul was saying. I myself think that is important.

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The question might be a bit dark or triggering so if those things offend or cause you mental stress please don’t read this.

If eonian salvation and justification is conditional upon works would it have been better to have after,relatively speaking,I whole heartedly crying on the floor begged God to save me and had been given faith in Christ and assured salvation that I should have also begged pardon for my next action and killed myself? After all dying right then and there when I was assured salvation and given faith would have been better than to continue living and potentially lose it.

This question has always perplexed me? Why not commit suicide after an alter call if salvation, grace, and justification is conditional?

Also how is justification any different than pardon under the covenant law at that point?

Maybe the question could be cast thusly: why not commit suicide and go straight to heaven at the moment of justification, especially if salvation cannot be lost?

Anyway - I want to hear about that pdf if anyone gets a chance to read it. There are a few things worth spending time on - that is one of them imo. $.02