Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

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Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Lady Bug » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:04 pm

Sorry if that sounds like a crazy question. But this doctrine is so devastating and potentially harmful to one's mental stability IMHO that this should never be taught to children. If I get married and the spouse decides he wants this doctrine taught to the children, how do you deal with this? The child can be scarred for life.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby pog » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:14 pm

There's too many variables here to give a simple answer. However, a couple of things to consider:

One of the reasons my wife and I delayed having children and then only had one was our fear that our children might go to hell. ECT believers shouldn't really have children (if they're consistent), and you could probably persuade them of this.

A large proportion of hellists realise the damaging nature of the doctrine and wouldn't teach it to children. Again, one could easily persuade some infernalists to refrain from hell-talk until the child was much older.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sobornost » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:26 am

Hi Ladybug and Pog –

That’s an interesting question – and it’s not really covered by those who talk about these things primarily from an intellectual standpoint. Its’ a pastoral; issue and requires different sort of guidance in a different key.
Should a universalist marry someone who believes in ECT? Well I have a friend named Sass who used to post here quite a lot. On another Universalist site that she was advised that she and her ECT husband were ‘unevenly yoked’ and she should therefore leave him (she never named the site – she’s’ an honourable lass to whom naming and shaming would seem ‘tacky’- and there are a number of sites to chose from and it could have simply been the opinion of one individual on a given site). The advice she was given there was a load of rubbish – and has proved to be a load of rubbish too (she and her husband love each other). It’s a slightly issue – but a related one I guess.

You marry someone because you love them. Love can transcend and accommodate differences of belief – this we see day to day. However, I think a lot of depends on how heartfelt the beliefs are in the first place. Someone who really. really believes that the person they are going to marry – because this person does not believe in hell – is going to go to hell, will also really believes that the person they love is likely to put any children they have together in danger of spending eternity in an inferno of wrath, They are really going to have to think twice before marrying a universalist. – and should really question their motives no matter how strong the attraction is. The reverse is true also.

A universalist who has been much afflicted by teachings of hell and who is still very wounded by this and knows in their heart that they probably always will be a bit wounded (in this life) – likewise they should certainly think twice before marrying someone who believes strongly in hell (even if it’s not as strongly as the person in my first example). Part of the painful process of love’s work is gradually stopping any projections of previous stuff on to each other and seeing each other in the light of day. People who live in closest intimacy together have rows, hurt each other, and forgive each other. But if the real issue of one partner is about a crippling fear of hell they are going to project this on to a partner who believes in ECT whenever there is serious trouble which all marriages go through. And this may well obscure what the real current issues are.

But love does transcend beliefs, beliefs are often notional (a person can ‘believe’ in hell in a theoretical sort of way without it really being part of the way they see and relate to others in their actual living ).
So I’d say be flexible but be honest about yourself and if you fall in love with someone who believes in ECT be honest about what you know about them. Think it through as part of the commitment – it may be workable, it may not be.
Blessings

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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby JasonPratt » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:12 am

I fully second Dick's reply (and Pog's for that matter). Not sure I could add to it. Does he feel so strongly about it, or you feel so strongly against it, that it's going to poison your relationship with each other? Can you respect each other personally and keep hope for one another (which ought to be sufficiently easy in your case), even though disagreeing? Then keep on keeping on. :)

If you can't, then you should certainly bring up the problem, and try to work out together whether one or both of you can change your attitudes toward and about each other on the topic.

If that doesn't work, that's a pretty strong sign your marriage is going to hurt a lot, and maybe fall apart. In that case, as much as it hurts now, I'd have to recommend breaking up, unless you've received some REAAAALLLYYY strong miraculous indications that God expects to you stay on point, sacrificing yourself for his sake. (If you question how strong some such indications might be that you think you may have had, they weren't strong enough. ;) )

Note that that advice is topic neutral, and doesn't depend on whether the disagreements between you are about universalism or something else.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sherman » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:46 am

I was an infernalist, only came to believe in UR about 4 years ago. My wife is still an infernalist though she is not one to really think about theology; she profoundly loves God and loves people from the heart; compassion is her guide not theology.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby corpselight » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:37 am

i'd be quite keen to discourage people from reproducing anyway, as this poor planet is vastly overpopulated. :evil:

so the idea of having to confuse kids with the choice between infernalism or universalism wouldn't even have to come up! 8-)
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sherman » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:25 am

If you're passionate anti-Infernalism and really think it is evil, as a principle it would be best to not marry an infernalist. You'd likely only be setting yourself up for significant problems later, and likely divorce, especially if he is passionate about infernalism. With God all things are possible, but why tempt the Lord!

When choosing someone to marry, shared values and passions are important things to consider.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Username » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:05 am

Hi Lady

For me it's as simple as rain. If you love somebody, passionately, with all your heart, to the permanent exclusion of all others - then marry them. And anyone who tells you otherwise, with their doctrines and rules and whatever, can go hang :D

God is love, Lady :D .

All the best

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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sobornost » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:27 pm

I’ll half go hang myself here because I almost agree with Johnny – but perhaps not enough. Lady Bug I think it’s highly unlikely that you are going to fall in love with say a younger version of John Piper or Mark Driscoll (to take very extreme examples). However, sometime certain people with a certain woundedness in their life can’ fall in love’ with people who actually represent what has wounded them in the first place. So if a person has been wounded badly by ECT and finds themselves strongly attracted to a younger version of John Piper or Mark Driscoll :o – especially if they think they can change them – there are grounds for hearing those little alarm bells. (If I hadn’t seen similar scenarios played out so often– although not specifically connected to peoples’ beliefs – I wouldn’t be mentioning this one).

But if there is real love there, you’ll be able to accept each other just as you are and not want to change each other – and this sort of love can bridge religious differences certainly.

So in the light of Johnny’s words I’ll half go hang - but only half :lol:

Blessings to all

Dick :)
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby corpselight » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:39 am

that's a really good point, Dick...i think given that sort of situation, marrying an atheist would be better than an infernalist.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby sven » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:28 am

I would say it depends on the persons's attitude, let's think of a lukewarm/secular Catholic or Muslim, who in some sense believes in hell but that only the most wicked end there; but is not dogmatic about it, - or a die hard Evangelical fire and brimstone teacher.

I would definitely not marry the later; I would not have so much a problem with the former.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sobornost » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:49 am

I'd agree lads - there is no rule here, and there may well be exceptions to the personal guidelines we've proffered. However, you do need to be honest about the situation; always be aware of the grey areas that love can very easily accommodate - but if the situation is black and white it's probably best to be realistic about this.

What's with this word 'infernalist'? Isn't there a bit of a danger that we now have a really exciting word in our armoury and it might just trip off the tongue a little too easily for the hot headed or even the boiling hot headed :lol: ? People do sometimes get carried away by giddying up draughts of rhetoric :roll: - I know I do :oops: I'm sticking with ECT I think (which I divide into soft ECT, hard ECT, and notional ECT - with all them grey areas in between).

Blessings


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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Username » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:04 am

I wouldn't recommend half hanging yourself professor. It could be very painful ;) . And how could any woman not fall in love with Mark Driscoll? They'd get to cook for him, wash his dirty socks, bear his children and play a tune on his pink oboe whenever he fancied it :D .

You're right, of course. I wouldn't recommend marrying someone unless their love for you is as strong as yours for them. True love seeketh not itself to please, as Blake so wisely reminds us. And in any case, nobody whose life is truly infused with the love of God could possibly be a 'true' infernalist.

Shalom

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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sobornost » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:17 am

Here’s my clumsy typology -

Soft ECT – this is normally a freewill position (I think?). Part of our dignity is that God gives us freedom, and that freedom entails the possibility that we will ultimately reject the offer of God’s love. We make our own hell – and soft ECT people don’t orally dwell on the exact details of what hell is like other than being shut up eternally in our own selfishness. I think soft ECT people, if they were honest feel deep down that this possibility of ultimate rejection by us of God’s offer is in a sense a tragic frustration of God’s purposes.

Hard ECT – this is when people dwell on the details of everlasting torment and make a virtue of so doing. They also speak as if God wills the punishment of the wicked and actually relishes it (and that ‘we’ the saved or the elect will someday relish in turn). Hard ECT can be the result of belief in God’s sovereignty as the most important element in the Gospel message – or it can be a freewill position (You chose wrong and it serves your right – I chose right so your ECT is just tough).

Notional ECT – this is when the belief in ECT although held to by a person is actually not an important part in their overall theology and attitude to others. ‘Love’ is the overriding concern and ECT fits into their theoretical framework somewhere but is incidental. I think people with notional beliefs in ECT are more likely to be of the soft ECT variety, but some may well be hard ECT believers but still not really believe it in a way that makes any difference to their attitude towards others. People are often a lot better than their beliefs – or a lot worse for that matter.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby corpselight » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:37 am

:lol: Dick, well-spotted, catching my near scapegoating of the poor deceived ECT folk :lol:
i love the word Infernalist, as to me it makes it sound like it is...an infernal view point. but you're right to point out that there are soft ECT and notional ECT supporters...we can't tar them all with the same brush (or the same sticky substance...i suggest tar for Hard, molasses for Notional and creosote for Soft :lol: ).
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Lady Bug » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:42 am

thank you for your responses;

I asked because the prospect of my unbelieving dad passing away isn't that far off. He's not doing badly, he's just old - almost 80. I am also in excruciating pain because of wondering if I'll ever see any of my other loved ones who have passed away - like my grandparents, who were Catholic.

When my dad passes away, I probably will have no patience for anyone who thinks my dad will be in hell. I need compassion in the event my dad passes away, but if they secretly believe he's in hell then there is no point of seeking comfort from them, it's not going to feel real.

That could all change if I meet someone who believes in ECT but I don't know if I would be able to seek the compassion I need from the person in the event I am agonizing over an unbelieving loved one's loss. Maybe others may have more experience with this?
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby corpselight » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:50 am

Lady Bug wrote:thank you for your responses;

I asked because the prospect of my unbelieving dad passing away isn't that far off. He's not doing badly, he's just old - almost 80. I am also in excruciating pain because of wondering if I'll ever see any of my other loved ones who have passed away - like my grandparents, who were Catholic.

When my dad passes away, I probably will have no patience for anyone who thinks my dad will be in hell. I need compassion in the event my dad passes away, but if they secretly believe he's in hell then there is no point of seeking comfort from them, it's not going to feel real.

That could all change if I meet someone who believes in ECT but I don't know if I would be able to seek the compassion I need from the person in the event I am agonizing over an unbelieving loved one's loss. Maybe others may have more experience with this?


well, you can trust the Good God with your dad, and with your grandparents, and with everyone else. He knows His business. anyone that contradicts that is thoughtless, evil and totally un-Christian, regardless of their creed. the reason the Holy Spirit is the Comforter is that He brings comfort...and His comfort is there because there are reasons to be comforted. also, Jesus said "blessed are those that mourn" for the same reason.

i think it might be necessary, if you're in a place to be meeting people, is to get this out of the way at the start. tell them what you are questioning, and when you're ready...what you believe. if they are so hardline ECT that they think you're a heretic, then they will quickly filter themselves out of your contacts and thus solve the problem. if they are more tolerant...then you may be ok.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sobornost » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:35 am

I'll second James here Lady Bug -

Thoughts and Prayers to you with your Dad. I believe that you'll see your dear grand parents again - certainly. Likewise I think your father - when he dies - will be in the safest and most loving of hands. Are you surrounded by people who are ECT believers? I think this is a difficult situation you are in - anticipating seeking comfort from people who will give you none. Actually I must say I've not been in this situation ever - so I can't speak from experience. But I've heard the most appalling story of Christians giving chillingly cold comfort to the bereaved despite the Lord's saying - 'Blessed are they that mourn'

Are there any people you can turn to when your Dad dies who will not prejudge God's gracious judgement? - you have us here as a second best option always, always of course.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sobornost » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:48 am

Dear Lady Bug –

I’ve been thinking about you and your situation. If you are anticipating bereavement it’s not a time for opening yourself up to the needs of ECT people to voice their unsolicited opinions about where your Dad is. No way. There’s a time for opening up, but there’s a season too for closing down and being looked after. Bereavement is a difficult time for both the comforter and the comforted. People with the best of intentions often get things wrong. There’s a clumsy and universal type of Job’s comforter that will sit with a bereaved person and gabble on about how they felt when they were last bereaved – which just is not appropriate. You don’t need too many of those to try you – bereavement is a difficult enough time anyway. But as for those who might hold forth about their certain knowledge of the wrathful judgment of God upon your love one – a number of things occur to me:

As I’ve said they should consider ‘Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted’ as a proof text.

They should consider that if the parable of the sheep and goats teaches us anything – and it teaches us many things – it also teaches us that there are going to be surprises all round at judgement day for all of us. So none of us have got the right to go around shooting our mouths off about how God will judge.

They should also consider the many times that they have probably lost a loved one who they were unsure dies in the faith and conveniently received a word from the Lord that this person was saved.
And this is true of Christians who believe in ECT never mind Universalist.

People who go around dolling out their verdict no God’s judgement to the bereaved have somehow got things very, very wrong. I like to be understanding, but for this spirit if feel nothing but condemnation (in doing so I’m judging the state of mind/soul that it come from rather than the person who plays Job’s Comforter on behalf of the Accuser). And well I’m reluctant to use the woes against the Pharisees but the words of an English poet seem fitting –

The vision of Christ that thou seest
Is mine’s eternal enemy
Both read the bible day and night
Thou readest black, I readest white
Seeing this false Christ with fury and passion
I’ll make my voice heard across all the nations

Well I’ve got that out of my system now. I really think you need to find a sympathetic pastor –if you haven’t already got one. And you need to take stock of who your real mates are who will love and support you during bereavement rather than condemn the person you mourn for and in this way condemn you when you are at your most vulnerable.
In thoughts and prayers.


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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Lady Bug » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:05 pm

I was not trying to say that the ECT believers would refuse to show compassion; it's just that if they truly believe in hell, I don't know how the compassion could be any more than fluff, even if it's not their intent to be that way. It would feel all duplicitous to me, even if it isn't willful on their part. I mean, they'd be offering their condolences and even comfort, but deep down they think my dad will be in hell? That would feel so fake to me :( Not to mention it could exacerbate my agony inside even more.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby SLJ » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:10 pm

I don't think there's any one answer to this question. In your case, Lady, it sounds like it would be a bad idea. For others it might be fine. It all depends on the people and the circumstances. I can't imagine you falling in love with someone who believes in ECT. ;)

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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Lady Bug » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:20 pm

thank you for your replies again;

I didn't mean to be picky -looking. I mean, I imagine myself having to keep so many things inside...I mean with you guys I can say that I hope I can see my dad again or my other late loved ones who may have gone astray, and I'll receive honest comfort from you. The ECTers may offer their comfort but for them to not be on the same page as me, that is just way too much pain, my chest literally feels heavy typing this...and I'm sounding like a broken record too.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sobornost » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:25 pm

Hi Lady Bug -

I think only really extreme hard ECT believers would conclude that your Dad is in hell (I was just worried you might know some of them and the advice is - if you need it - avoid them ;) ) Others who ' believe' in ECT in some sense (perhaps notional) would be genuine in their offers of comfort, really genuine. People's humanity kicks in in all but the most extreme cases when comforting the bereaved is concerned and they do suspend judgement and live in hope for the departed - especially if they have known them and loved them. Life just is not clear cut.

Sonia is absolutely right however - I can't imagine you falling in love with someone who believes in ECT. There's plenty of pebbles on the beach and a lot of those don't believe in ECT ;) I've never been out with a woman who believes in ECT - and it was something I used to fear when I was younger certainly (and when I was afraid I was always confronting people with ECT beliefs rather than just muddling along with them as I do today - I no longer feel I have to live in a perfect world). I guess it's hard to believe that there is a big non ECT world outside when you've felt the ECT parallel world as a prison. But my experience suggest there is such a world to breathe easy in.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Cindy Skillman » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:17 pm

Ladybug,

I think it's okay to receive the comfort of those who love you and care about you, even if secretly they feel even worse for you because they "know" your dad is probably not in a better place . . . in my experience people tend to be a LOT more compassionate themselves than they imagine God to be.

BUT, having lived through my own dad's going home (and other beloved ones as well), I can tell you that there's not much point in looking forward to and worrying about bereavement. In fact, there's not much point in looking forward to and worrying about much of anything. Mostly things work out a LOT differently than we expect them to. I had so much agony when I was younger, worrying about things that have never happened. OTHER things happened that I never imagined would happen. I'm glad I didn't know about them in advance because it would have ruined a lot of good times and given me unnecessary grief in worrying over the bad things that were going to happen.

You just don't know what's around the corner. Almost none of the things I've worried about have ever happened (or at least they haven't happened in the catastrophic ways I anticipated them). So there I was, in anticipatory pain over a bunch of stuff I never needed to worry about, and in actual pain over a bunch of stuff I never saw coming. No way I could avoid the latter, but I sure didn't need to agonize over the former in addition.

Take Jesus' advice; don't worry about anything, but instead pray about everything. Our guide and elder Brother will lead you through fire and water and anything else that stands in the way of your journey home, and He will lead you there safely. Nothing can touch you but those things Father allows -- and He only allows things that will ultimately do you lasting good (even though some of them will hurt). You are in the hands of love and perfect love casts out all fear. Trust in Father's perfect love for you and He will get you through all those hard spots. Storms will come, but the house that's built on the rock will stand. All other houses NEED to fall, for they are nothing but prisons masquerading as shelters.

Love, Cindy
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Kate » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:49 am

I'm a little late on commenting here, but I just wanted to add that I've thought about this many, many times. I simply can't imagine myself saying "til death do us part" to a man who believes in ECT, and I've avoided some otherwise wonderful guys due to this uneasiness.

On the other hand, I do really wish to marry a man who shares my belief in Christ as Messiah, the truth of the Gospel, and other mainstream Christian doctrines. Finding a twenty-something, non-ECT Christian man (much less one who is kind and shares interests with me!) is much easier said than done!

Sometimes, I toy with the idea of joining a convent and just living out my Universalist tendencies in peaceful singleness -- but then I remember that Catholics are ECT, too!

Ladybug, I will be praying for strength and peace for you, your father, and the rest of your family. I thought I'd share with you some words by Max Lucado, which you may have read before. Nonetheless, they gave me such comfort when I read his Travelling Light as an angst-ridden twelve-year-old who knew nothing but ECT. Although Lucado is a mainstream Christian writer/pastor and believes in traditional hell, I found these words immensely comforting (and I still do!)

What of those who die with no faith? My husband never prayed. My grandpa never worshiped. My mother never opened a Bible, much less her heart. What about the one who never believed?

How do we know he didn’t?

Who among us is privy to a person’s final thoughts? Who among us knows what transpires in those final moments? Are you sure no prayer was offered? Eternity can bend the proudest knees. Could a person stare into the yawning canyon of death without whispering a plea for mercy? And could our God, who is partial to the humble, resist it?

He couldn’t on Calvary. The confession of the thief on the cross was both a first and final one. But Christ heard it. Christ received it. Maybe you never heard your loved one confess Christ, but who’s to say Christ didn’t?

We don’t know the thoughts of a dying soul, but we know this. We know our God is a good God. He is “not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

He wants your loved one in heaven more than you do. And he usually gets what he wants.



Prayers and blessings to you, Ladybug,

Kate

P.S. If anybody does know of any nice, twenty-something Christian Universalist boys out there.... you all know where to find me. Just sayin'. :oops:
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby JasonPratt » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:29 pm

Kate,

You might find someone on ChristianMingle. :)

Alternately, Eastern Orthodoxy also has nunneries; and not only are the RCC leaders slowly moving in the direction of UR, but they allow their nuns a lot of leeway in this regard, especially those who follow St. Therese of Lisieux or St. Faustina of Poland (who herself followed St. Therese). The Divine Mercy movement spearheaded by St. Faustina has been steadily growing and enjoys a lot of papal support.
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Username » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:51 pm

Hi Kate

I was intrigued, and just a little saddened, to read that you have "avoided some otherwise wonderful guys due to [their belief in ECT]". The reason being that pretty much all of us guys here (if I can speak for all of us guys :D ) used to believed in ECT. ECT is the controlling belief in the modern church. Hence young men who have grown up in Christian families are almost bound to believe in ECT; and atheists or agnostics who convert are almost bound to convert to ECT Christianity. So your 'pool' of potential partners is, for you as a young person, pretty darn small :D :( .

But things can change!

If you and I and all the rest of us here have come to believe in the truth of UR, that means that anybody could do the same. And personally I am convinced that a) any Christian with an open mind and a good heart will have massive problems with ECT, and sooner or later (hopefully sooner :D ) will come to reject that theology: and b) even those of us who, for whatever reason, are convinced that ECT is ordained by God, should, if they are truly led by the Spirit, be at worst tolerant of the UR position, and at best accepting of it as a legitimate view. (Although if you ask me anybody who doesn't subscribe to UR is not letting themselves be guided by the Spirit.)

So I guess what I'm saying is that you shouldn't worry about this particular issue. If your God-given emotions and instincts bring you together with a guy who reciprocates your feelings, who connects with you in every other way except ECT, then things will work themselves out.

Attraction - real, across the board, emotional and intellectual and sexual attraction - is the greatest and most mysterious lightning in this perplexing universe. And when it strikes, it strikes for a reason. I reckon.

All the best

Johnny
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sobornost » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:55 pm

Hi Kate -

You should have a chat with our Jael Sister sometime - she's had similar issues (although its not quite the same in the UK). She's certainly tried Christian dating agencies - so she knows the score there. And she found her man in he end - and he's a really lovely bloke. I'll be seeing her the weekend after next - all being well. She's my friend and Johnny's friend and were your friends so if you fancy a chat with the warm hearted lass from Bristol we'll touch base on that one somehow.

As your surrogate godfather I can only say that the monastic vocation has to be tested - and a lass of your age who is finding it difficult to meet an appropriate lad certainly needs to do a wee bit more sifting before jumping to conclusions. Whatever....

Rest you merry our lass

Dick :)
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Sobornost » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:18 pm

Kate you need a girl to talk this stuff through with - that's what I reckon. Jael is the nearest to your age and experience I know of on this site - so she's a start. It is a shame that this site is virtual. IT would be really good to have the younglings of the field here having a get together across continents - because I know you are not the only one in this situation. However, a virtual community spread across the globe has its limits. Och well. And Johnny and I could join the reminiscence group for elderly veterans. And the young people from EU could come round once a month and serenade us in our bath chairs with Ramones songs (do you remember this one grandpa - 'Oh Sheena is a punk rocker' or was it 'prawn cracker?) :lol:
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Kate » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:43 pm

I think I'll hold off on the nunnery for now. :lol: No worries, everyone!

Good point, Johnny. Perhaps it would be better to say that I could never date a "hardcore" believer in ECT, since most Christians have, indeed, grown up with it at one point or another. Sadly, there seems to be a rather strong population of just that "hardcore" sort around here, as I live in a very conservative, evangelical area. It is a bit discouraging, but I'm not too worried yet. (If there's one thing I've got in the great matchmaking contest, it's time! :D )

And Dick, you well know that a friend of yours is a friend of mine, so I would enjoy talking with Jael, I'm sure.:)

And come now, god-father, you're not "elderly" just yet -- you've got a few more years before you and Johnny will need a bath chair! :lol:
“God loved us before he made us; and his love has never diminished and never shall.”
~ Mother Julian of Norwich
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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Paidion » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:06 pm

If we wait to marry until we find someone who holds the same beliefs as us, we probably won't get married (I say this as a 75 year old who has been married to a wonderful wife who died in 1997, and who is presently married to another wonderful wife).

I heard someone say, "Put together any 3 people, and you have 5 different opinions!"

Many Christians won't fellowship with anyone who holds philosophical or theological beliefs which differ from their own. That's the reason for the hundreds of denominations and sects in the world. But harmony in beliefs is not what unites us as disciples of Christ. What unites us is our discipleship. We serve the same wonderful Saviour! We have submitted our lives to Him.

If we see this, and can fellowship as disciples with those who hold beliefs contrary to our own, then surely we can also fellowship in marriage with a person who believes other than we. The family is one level of the Church. Surely the family can grow together. If disharmony in theological opinions persist, you can agree together concerning what you teach the children. If it's an ET vs UR disageement, and you haven't come to a mutually similar conclusion by the time you have children, you might decide together not to bring the matter up with the children unless they ask. And if they ask, each of you could give his/her opinion, without attempting to indoctrinate them. Explain to them that the two of you disagree, but together are seeking truth and reality. After all, most of us have held to false beliefs in the past, and have been enlightened concerning some of them.

If each person in a marriage serves the other, and does not try to have everything his/her way, then the marriage will be wonderful! Differences in belief should not be a factor which hinders the wonders of love!
Paidion

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Re: Should you marry someone who believes in ECT?

Postby Kate » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:39 pm

This is true, Paidion. Very true and wise. And I know this issue shouldn't bother me quite so much. Indeed, regarding most differences in theology, I don't mind diverging opinions. ECT, however, seems like such a substantial thing to simply not mention to my future children, and it's them I'd worry about most if I were to marry an ECT-believer.

With a Catholic father and an evangelical Protestant mother, I'm no stranger to household religious dissension. It was the confusion I felt after hearing their debate that initially prompted me to research different theologies and, in the process, discover some frightening ECT sites during grade school. I'd hate for my silence to lead my child down the same frightening road someday -- and then to be married to a man who backed up the ECT teachers as undoubtedly correct! Any thoughts on this, everyone?

I'm good at projecting worrisome scenarios onto the future, as I am a professional worry-wort. :lol: Sadly, this one seems legitimate to me, as I've seen firsthand how much a strongly-taught ECT doctrine can harm a child. :(
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