Luther Lee's Book; Invite for a debate.

Arguments/positions against Evangelical Universalism.

Luther Lee's Book; Invite for a debate.

Postby ChrisDACase95 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:33 pm

So I came across this old book by one Luther Lee which as the title explains "Universalism Examined and Refuted and the doctrine of Endless Punishment of such who do not comply with the conditions of the gospel established". Long title I know.

I want to start a discussion on this book as it's really old, from the 1800's in fact and isn't that well known, so it doesn't get talked about or examined as far as I know. I want to see what universalists make of his claims, at least those familar with the book and it's contents and if they hold up.

Now the book is fairly obscure from what I've seen, so I'll link it in the description. Fair warning it's supposed to be about 300 pages, so if you have the time or paitence, link below.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=gJQ3AA ... of&f=false
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Re: Luther Lee's Book; Invite for a debate.

Postby Cindy Skillman » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:12 pm

I think you'd probably get more responses on this, @ChrisDACase95, if you just post an example of one principle from the book you'd like to discuss. I read a lot of hell books when I was studying UR and didn't find any that I couldn't easily refute--so I'm just not interested in them any more. They all make the same arguments. BUT, if you'd like to condense something that you'd like an opinion on, I think you'd get at least a couple of bites.
. . . we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of everyone, especially of those who believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)

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Re: Luther Lee's Book; Invite for a debate.

Postby JasonPratt » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:31 am

I mean, you're basically asking for a book-length evaluation of its claims, possibly of greater length than 300 pages.

Which, okay, if you think this particular book is worth that much attention, fine, you can bring up each point in sequence for debate if you want. (Maybe adjust your thread title to be more descriptive that way so members and guests will know what's happening in the thread.)

Just be aware, many of us may point to articles or posts we've already long-since written in reply. :geek: :mrgreen:
Cry of Justice -- 2008 Novel of the Year (CSPA retailer poll).
Sword To The Heart -- metaphysical argument to orthodox trinitarianism (and thence to universalism)
Trinitarian universalist exegetics, on internet radio, or here in forum posts.
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Re: Luther Lee's Book; Invite for a debate.

Postby JasonPratt » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:44 am

We can start with the quote from 2 Corinthians on the title page, if you like: presumably the author puts it there because he thinks it supports his position, but it doesn't affirm endless punishment or refute universal salvation and doesn't have anything to do with the topics one way or another. Unless the author thinks that it's claiming that "the god of this world" (i.e. Satan) is ultimately stronger than "our Gospel" "the glorious Gospel of Christ" so that by the power and strength of the god of this world this Gospel shall never shine upon some people.

In which case, my first problem with the author won't be his soteriology (that's only a consequence), but with his theology: he would be repudiating trinitarian theism (moreso trinitarian Christian theism). And even repudiating mere supernaturalistic theism. Perhaps inadvertently, but that happens very often, in my technical experience, when people try to defend ECT (or annihilation for that matter), especially by prooftexting things.

Now, if he doesn't mean that where grace exceeds, the sin of ultimate evil hyperexceeds, for not as the grace is the sin -- then great! But then his quote is of no support to his theme. ;)

One way or another, his choice of title-page scriptural quotation doesn't bode well for his case.
Cry of Justice -- 2008 Novel of the Year (CSPA retailer poll).
Sword To The Heart -- metaphysical argument to orthodox trinitarianism (and thence to universalism)
Trinitarian universalist exegetics, on internet radio, or here in forum posts.
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