Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Arguments/positions against Evangelical Universalism.

Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby Origen; » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:40 am

"Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven, but blasphemy
against the Spirit will not.…either in this age or in the age to
come (Mt. 12:31-32; Mk. 3:29-30). This is saying that every sin
and blasphemy will be forgiven in the age to come except this sin.
If not, what is the point of singling out one sin in particular as an
exception? This is powerful testimony from the lips of Christ
Himself for hope after death! Because a particular sin will not be
forgiven at a given time does not require that the penalty be infinite.
Also, God‘s justice in judgment does not change! (Mal. 3:6).
All judgment is measured and with a purpose. Either a just penalty
will be exacted (He. 2:2), or its forgiveness must await a subsequent
age. (Scripture alludes to ―ages to come- Ep. 2:7). We can
rest assured that the Father‘s chastising penalty for this sin will be
just, and righteous, and in character with His loving heart for all."

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Assuming the dead are not conscious & the age to come is a period of 1000 years commencing at Christ's future return, those who committed this sin, if any, after dying would sleep through that future age (the millennium) & be resurrected at the GWT judgement spoken of in Revelation. From that point on they could be pardoned of this sin.
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Re: Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby Paidion » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:49 am

"αφεσις," the word that is sometimes translated as "forgiveness" entails much more than mere pardon.
I want to comment on this more thoroughly in a later post. Meanwhile you might want to consider George MacDonald's chapter on Luke 12:20 from "Unspoken Sermons Volume 1":

It Shall Not Be Forgiven

The following is a paragraph from near the end of the article:

But for him that speaketh against the Spirit of Truth, against the Son of God revealed within him, he is beyond the teaching of that Spirit now. For how shall he be forgiven? The forgiveness would touch him no more than a wall of stone. Let him know what it is to be without the God he hath denied. Away with him to the Outer Darkness! Perhaps that will make him repent.
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Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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Re: Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby Origen; » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:24 pm

Paidion wrote:"αφεσις," the word that is sometimes translated as "forgiveness" entails much more than mere pardon.
I want to comment on this more thoroughly in a later post. Meanwhile you might want to consider George MacDonald's chapter on Luke 12:20 from "Unspoken Sermons Volume 1":

It Shall Not Be Forgiven

The following is a paragraph from near the end of the article:

But for him that speaketh against the Spirit of Truth, against the Son of God revealed within him, he is beyond the teaching of that Spirit now. For how shall he be forgiven? The forgiveness would touch him no more than a wall of stone. Let him know what it is to be without the God he hath denied. Away with him to the Outer Darkness! Perhaps that will make him repent.


I'm wondering how this last paragraph would harmonize with the sin not being pardoned or forgiven in this age & the next age. Since it speaks of the possibility of the sinner repenting in outer darkness. That repentance would supposedly lead to forgiveness & the sinner not being punished for two ages. This appears to be an apparent contradiction. Or would the sinner who repented in outer darkness continue to be punished or not forgiven till the end of the 2 ages? Or does the punishment only need to last into the coming eon & not through all of it till its end?
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Re: Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby Origen; » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:11 pm

Are these examples of unpardoned or unforgiven sins:

Isa 22:14
New American Standard Bible
But the LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, "Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven you Until you die," says the Lord GOD of hosts.


Matthew 6:15New International Version (NIV)
15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
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Re: Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby davo » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:37 pm

Origen; wrote:Are these examples of unpardoned or unforgiven sins:

Isa 22:14
New American Standard Bible
But the LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, "Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven you Until you die," says the Lord GOD of hosts.

No not really, at least not according to this rendition… as you can see said forgiveness would take place at death (until you die), but not before. According to Paul… “the wages of sin is death” NOT ECT. Paul further says… “For he who has died has been freed from sin.
“...the power and mercy of God’s grace is NOT limited to man’s ability to comprehend it...”
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Re: Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby maintenanceman » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:16 pm

Paidion wrote:"αφεσις," the word that is sometimes translated as "forgiveness" entails much more than mere pardon.
I want to comment on this more thoroughly in a later post. Meanwhile you might want to consider George MacDonald's chapter on Luke 12:20 from "Unspoken Sermons Volume 1":

It Shall Not Be Forgiven

The following is a paragraph from near the end of the article:

But for him that speaketh against the Spirit of Truth, against the Son of God revealed within him, he is beyond the teaching of that Spirit now. For how shall he be forgiven? The forgiveness would touch him no more than a wall of stone. Let him know what it is to be without the God he hath denied. Away with him to the Outer Darkness! Perhaps that will make him repent.


hey Paidion, Both you and George are considering these word to be directed to you... Both of you, George in his time and you in your time. It is possible that the writer of Hebrews was talking to..... Well, the Hebrews of his time. :shock: The Hebrews that would not hear and obey Christ's warnings were the ones who would not be forgiven... In the sense that they would realize destruction. As per the prophets. :o

Yep, Christ wanted His kinsmen to repent. He was the last prophet to be sent to Israel before God's judgment. :shock:

You continue to turn away from that historical truth about who Christ was sent to and what his mission was. :D
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Re: Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby davo » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:42 pm

maintenanceman wrote:Yep, Christ wanted His kinsmen to repent. He was the last prophet to be sent to Israel before God's judgment. :shock:

And here’s an example of THAT very thing…
Lk 13:3-5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

Jesus’ “you” was the audience to whom he spoke, i.e., Israel.
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Re: Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby Origen; » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:13 am

davo wrote:
Origen; wrote:Are these examples of unpardoned or unforgiven sins:

Isa 22:14
New American Standard Bible
But the LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, "Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven you Until you die," says the Lord GOD of hosts.

No not really, at least not according to this rendition… as you can see said forgiveness would take place at death (until you die), but not before. According to Paul… “the wages of sin is death” NOT ECT. Paul further says… “For he who has died has been freed from sin.


What if the resurrected sinner continues sinning & blaspheming upon his resurrection? Will he need to die again for those new sins?

LK.12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

If the Spirit blasphemer will "not be forgiven", how can he ever be saved?
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Re: Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby Origen; » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:19 am

Origen; wrote:
LK.12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

If the Spirit blasphemer will "not be forgiven", how can he ever be saved?


To answer my own query:

Lk12:10 says it will not be forgiven/pardoned, just like Isa.22:14 below, though Isa.22 puts a limit to it, i.e. till death.

Isa 22:14 But the LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, "Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven [purged/atoned] you Until you die," says the Lord GOD of hosts.

Lk 12:10, OTOH, unlike Isa.22:14, does not state the length of time the person will not pardoned/forgiven/let off, whether it is till death, forever, or for this age & the next, etc. We have to look to other Scriptures to determine that, such as the parallel passages (Mk.3:28-29 and Matthew 12:31-32) which limit the penalty for this sin to two ages, "this" age & the coming age.

Since there are Scriptures speaking of multiple future ages to come (Eph.2:7; 1:21; Rev.22:5, etc), there is the possibility that this sin against the Holy Spirit may be pardoned after the coming age.

Also, in light of the following words we may believe that the sin against the Holy Spirit will surely be pardoned:

Mark 3:28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies,
whatsoever they should be blaspheming,

If such a horrific thing as eternal punishment were the idea in Mt.12:31-32 & MK.3:28-29, would Christ have used the ambiguous words aion & aionios? No. He would have used words such as eternal (aidios, Rom.1:20; Jude 6), endless (aperantos, 1 Tim.1:4), no end (Lk.1:33), unlimited (apeiron, by Philo). Since He never used such words, He did not teach endless annihilation or torments.
Last edited by Origen; on Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Spirit blasphemy - unpardonable sin

Postby Origen; » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:24 am

Some other verses from the gospel of Luke:

Fear not, said the angel who announced it, for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. Luke 2:10.

Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. Luke 2:14.

Luke 3:5 Every valley shall be filled,
and every mountain and hill shall be made low,
and the crooked shall be made straight,
and the rough ways made smooth;
Luke 3:6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Luke 6:35

Luke 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15:8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

Lk. 17:4 Even if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times returns to say, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”



https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
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