FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #56

YOU HAVE HEARD THAT IT WAS SAID – Kenneth Larsen

“You hear that it was declared, ‘You shall be loving your associate’ and you shall be hating your enemy. Yet I am saying to you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who are persecuting you, so that you may become sons of your Father Who is in the heavens, for He causes His sun to rise on the wicked and the good, and makes it rain on the just and the unjust. For if ever you should love those who are loving you, what wages have you? Are not the tribute collectors also doing the same? And if ever you should greet your brothers only, what are you doing that is excessive? Are not those of the nations also doing the same? You, then, shall be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matt. 5:43-48.

You have heard that it was said, “God hates those people so much He’s going to torment them in the flames.”
But God says, “To no one render evil for evil; rather, conquer evil with good. In doing this, you will be heaping embers of fire on his head.” Ro. 12:17-21.

You have heard that it was said, “God offers salvation to all mankind, but only saves those who believe before they die.”
But God says, “I AM the living God, the Savior of all mankind, especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.” 1 Timothy 4:10, 11.

You have heard that it was said, “Some people are impossible to save; their stubborn will is just too strong!”
But God says, “With Me nothing is impossible; no one is stronger than Me!” Matt. 19:25, 26; 1 Cor. 10:22.

You have heard that it was said, “God wishes He could reconcile all the estranged on earth and in the heavens, but He has to have cooperation from those on earth; He can’t do it alone. As for those estranged in the heavens, they’re hopeless.”
But God says, “Through Christ I will reconcile all to Myself (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.” Colossians 1:20, 21.

You have heard that it was said, “For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, all those who are in Christ shall be vivified.”
But God says, “For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.” 1 Cor. 15:22.

You have heard that it was said, “Seek God and you’ll be saved. Your salvation depends on how you exercise your free will. If you’re lost, it will be your own fault.”
But God says, “No one is seeking Me. All avoid Me. Consequently, then, it is not of him who is willing, nor of him who is racing, but of My mercy.” Romans 3:11, 12; 9:16.

You have heard that it was said, “The second death will be eternal; there’s no escaping the lake of fire.”
But God says, “The last enemy is being abolished: death.” 1 Corinthians 15:26.

You have heard that it was said, “When God doesn’t give the person the chance to hear the Gospel, it’s because He knows they would have rejected it anyway.”
But God says, “My saving grace makes its advent to all humanity. Jesus enlightens every soul who enters the world, and He will draw all to Himself.” Titus 2:11; Jn. 1:9; 12:32.

You have heard that it was said, “The subjection of all to Christ will, in many cases, involve compulsion, rather than the reception of a body of glory.”
But God says, “Christ will transfigure the body of humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject all to Himself. Every tongue will acclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord, by Holy Spirit.” 1 Cor. 12:3; Phil. 2:9-11; 3:21.

You have heard that it was said, “All mankind is condemned in Adam, but only some of them will receive justification in Christ.”
But God says, “Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life’s justifying. For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.” Romans 5:18, 19.

You have heard that it was said, “God wills all mankind be saved, but that’s really just wishful thinking.”
But God says, “The Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world, annulling the acts of the Adversary! My will is to save all, and I operate all in accord with the counsel of My will.” John 1:29; 1 Jn. 3:8; 1 Tim. 2:1-6; Eph. 1:11.

You have heard that it was said, “God expects something from us (to exercise our free will) before His grace will be of any benefit to us. God loves His enemies, and will give the most ungrateful and wicked among them the wages of sin (death) forever.”
But God says, “And if you are loving those loving you, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are loving those loving them. And if you should be doing good to those doing good to you, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are doing the same. And if you should ever be lending to those from whom you are expecting to get back, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are lending to sinners, that they may get back the equivalent. Moreover, be loving your enemies, and be doing good, and be lending, expecting nothing from them, and your wages will be vast in the heavens, and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.” Luke 6:32-35.

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #57

INFANT SALVATION

Believers in “eternal torment” are divided in their opinion about the fate of infants who die.
Some, who believe in God’s sovereign election of the “few,” also believe that non-elect babies who die will spend eternity suffering in hell. I have heard that John Calvin wrote, “There are babies a span long in hell”.
Others (Arminians) consider this unfair, and assert that infants who die will spend eternity in heavenly bliss. This of course is true, but not because the child is innocent. It’s true because the Scriptures teach that God intends to save everyone from everything that they need to be saved from.
A few years ago there was a story in a Montreal paper about an Ohio lady who drowned her baby in the bathtub. Her defense was that she loved the baby so much that she wanted to make sure that her child would not have to suffer forever in hell. After serving a sentence she remarried, had another child and drowned it for the same reason. She trusted that God would forgive her because her intention, though warped by false theology, was for the good of her children.
The jury decided that she was mentally ill, BUT WAS SHE? The simple pragmatic fact, if Arminians are right, is that her two infants will spend eternity in heavenly bliss because she loved them so much that she insured, by killing them, that this will be so.
Apparently they believe that there is a magical split-second in time before which a child, if they die, will go to heaven, and after which, if they die will spend eternity suffering in hell. They call this “the age of accountability”.
If I believed this nonsense I might take a gun into the largest maternity ward in Toronto and before the police arrived, kill every infant who had just been born. This would cause an enormous amount of suffering to the parents, but this wouldn’t matter much in the long run, because probably most of them (according to Arminian theology) are destined to suffer forever in hell anyway, so why not save their babies from the same fate?
Don’t try to argue that what I would be doing would be wrong (Thou Shalt Not Kill). The fact remains that my act would, in fact insure the baby’s eternal salvation. If Arminians are right, then infanticide would certainly be one of the most effective ways of “saving souls”. Besides, God forgives murder, especially when it is done for such a noble, though misguided cause. Sure, they would lock me away in an institution, but I would spend my life reveling in the glow of the emotional high of knowing that I had, beyond any shadow of a doubt (even in the mind of Arminians ) guaranteed the salvation of the babies that I had killed.
Besides, Christians kill others in war for less worthy causes than preventing others from suffering forever.
Folks, the actual truth about the matter is much more sane and blessed. The Scriptures teach that salvation is all of the Lord, and He will not fail to save everyone of us according to His own timing. No one will be able to boast in His presence and say “I have saved my self from eternal hell by exercising my faith in God’s provision.” God will get all of the glory for everyone’s salvation.
The important issue never should be “what is right or what is wrong”. The only really important issue is, “What is God going to do with the person who is wrong?!” The Scriptures teach that God will fit every one of us into His master-plan in a positive way, and He will use our temporary involvement with sin to teach us the lessons that He wants us to learn. As my 101 year old Dad often said, “That’s what makes Him God!”
(Afterthought) - If abortionists are, for all practical purposes, among the most effective “soul-savers” in the world, why do Arminian Christians get so upset with them?!

Great post Rodger. I have brought this up before, but very few, if any, give it considerable thought. Instead, they shut their ears, close their eyes and say ‘blah blah, I can’t hear you’ and then go on as if the conversation never happened. When a Christian cannot solve a logical contradiction, most of them throw their arms up and say that “God works in mysterious ways”, or “our ways are not God’s ways”, etc… They will say anything to get out of admitting this contradiction.

Thanks Gabe

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #58
The Intimate Sovereign Control Of God

The Bible: God is in intimate sovereign control over what the Bible means to each individual. God also controls the extent to which we will try to change the mind of others about the meaning of the Bible, and He controls the extent to which we will be successful in changing the mind of others.
I personally believe that the Bible teaches the following things about -
THE WILL: God is in intimate sovereign control over the will of every created being. The only “free will” that anyone has is to choose in the direction of the strongest influence. Every choice we make is the product of influences that have been brought to bear upon us in the past, plus the influence that is being brought upon to bear upon us right now, and God sovereignly controls these influences. We are accountable for every choice but we are not responsible for it; God is. Every choice we make is the only one we could have made, and God will see to it that the result of every choice will be used to fit us into His master-plan in our own unique way. All loss is temporary. Even Esau’s loss was only a loss from the human point of view. From God’s point of view Esau was fulfilling His predetermined plan. Esau’s apparent loss was God’s way of fitting Esau into His master-plan in His own unique way. Even rewards are predetermined, and are the result of responses to God’s undefeatable grace. God’s grace can only be resisted temporarily, for the purpose of teaching us lessons. We are not robots, but we do have one thing in common with robots. Everything we are is the product of causality. The Bible calls us “vessels,” some of honor, and some of dishonor, with most of us somewhere in between. Satan’s greatest delusion is that he thinks he has a free will. Many believers in Christ suffer from this same delusion, but God is in intimate sovereign control over every delusion. God will never influence His creatures against their will, but in every case He will influence their wills to change, for their own good, and for His own glory. Any suffering that follows the great white throne of judgment will be for the purpose of influencing our will for our own good. Everyone is believing what they are supposed to be believing at any given point in time, and they will not change their beliefs until God wants them to.
SALVATION: God is in intimate sovereign control over everyone’s salvation. The essential meaning of salvation is that God will change every negative thing that happened into something better that it happened than if it had not happened. And God will do it for every human and every evil spirit, including Satan. Salvation is a process that will be completed for the first fruits of election at the first resurrection, and for the rest of us after the second resurrection. God is in intimate sovereign control of the timing of that process, and He will not fail to fit everyone in a positive way into His master-plan. All of the negative consequences of sin and evil will be transformed for everyone. God will not just make it up to us. He will not just do a patch-up job. He will not just bring things back to where they were before sin came on the scene; but He will see to it that a far greater glory will result for everyone because sin temporarily prevailed than if it had not. I count it a great privilege and a gift from God that He has allowed me to see these things in the Bible. Only a comparatively few people see these things, so I consider myself especially blessed. I also believe that God is in intimate sovereign control over the reaction of everyone who reads these words.
GOD IS IN INTIMATE SOVEREIGN CONTROL OVER EVERYTHING ALL OF THE TIME.
What a wonderful thing to be able to believe.

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #59

MY OPINION

In my opinion, people who feel motivated to defend the doctrine of endless hell have been chosen by God to be vessels of the grossest dishonor, regardless as to how righteous the rest of their life appears to be. They have already sunk to the lowest level possible of moral debauchery.
In my opinion, the greatest of all manifestations of God’s grace in action is that people can believe in endless hell and not go stark-raving mad.
In my opinion, the Bible teaches universal transformation. In other words, it teaches that God will change every second of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened, including the sufferings that Satan must yet endure.
In my opinion, at some point in the future, God will reveal to everyone that the evangelical doctrine of endless hell is the blackest part of the canvas upon which God will paint the exceeding richness of His undefeatable grace.
In my opinion, everything that a person does is because they have to do it. In other words, everyone always responds to the strongest influence at any given point in time. It is God alone Who controls the interplay between good and evil, and He will work everything out for everyone’s good in due time.
In my opinion, Satan, and all wicked beings are only doing what God wants them to do within the wise counsel of His decretive will (that which must occur). He wants everyone to rebel against His revealed will to the extent that He allows them to. Everyone will try to influence others to the extent that they feel they should, but they will only be as successful as God wants them to be.
In my opinion, people who claim to be “saved” are mistaken when they think they will not receive corrective punishment after their resurrection from the dead. The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ removed the enmity between God and His creatures. But wrong attitudes cannot be forgiven. Wrong attitudes must change, and both people who claim to be “saved”, and the rest of us, will receive corrective punishment for a length of time that God will decide for each individual.
In my opinion, people who read this page will say, “You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it’s what the Bible says that counts.” And my reply is, “These opinions of mine are an expression of what I see in the Bible, and are an expression of the kind of God that I see in the Bible.” In my opinion, it is God who controls how each person interprets the Bible.
In this great truth, I relax.

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #60

CALVINISM / ARMINIANISM

Calvinism is a cruel and unloving profanity.
Arminianism is a proud and self -righteous profanity.
Calvinism is cruel and unloving because it claims that God allows beings to come into existence that deserve to suffer endlessly, and will suffer endlessly, except for a few that God will rescue from such a fate by His irresistible grace.
Arminianism is proud and self-righteous because it claims that only those who receive the proper information, and act on it properly before they die, will avoid suffering endlessly. They claim that God is unable to successfully influence anyone’s will, unless they let Him.
The Calvinist’s god allows millions of beings to come into existence and either can not, or will not, do anything to stop them from suffering forever.
The Arminian’s god lets us down just when we need Him the most. Our greatest need is a change in our stubborn will. The Arminian god either cannot, or will not meet us, on this, the level of our greatest need.
A profanity is an idea conceived by our sinful hearts. Both Calvinism and Arminianism are profanities. Against the black background of these profanities God will paint the glorious masterpiece of Universal Transformation.
The truth of Universal Transformation solves all the irreconcilable differences between Calvinism and Arminianism. It recognizes that our “free will” is the freedom to choose only in the direction of the strongest influence, and that God is in intimate sovereign control over all influences.
Each person is being fitted into God’s master-plan in God’s own special way for them. Each person responds to their own unique set of “strongest influences.” And ultimately, when the time period of the ages has ended, God will have transformed the consequences of everyone’s choices into something glorifying to Himself, and beneficial to the chooser.
It is unavoidable that how we think about God will affect our state of being. We tend to become like the god we worship. The one who puts their faith in Calvinism, tends to become cruel and unloving. The one who puts their faith in Arminianism, tends to become proud and self-righteous. If a Calvinist is not cruel and unloving, or, if an Arminian is not proud and self-righteous, it is entirely due to the intervention of God’s undefeatable grace. God often operates through people in spite of what they believe.
God’s grace can only be resisted if God wants to teach us lessons that could be learned no other way. But ultimately, God’s grace is undefeatable.
Both Calvinism and Arminianism are built upon the false foundation of “endless hell”. When this foundation has been replaced, the differences between them become irrelevant.
The profanity of the doctrine of “endless suffering in hell” is also part of the black background upon which God will paint His glorious masterpiece. Without fail, God will, in due time, transform all deceptions, delusions, and false doctrines, into something better that they temporarily prevailed than if they had not. And He will do this for everyone, without exception.

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #61

Consequences

I, Rodger Tutt, had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) over my inability to love or respect an endless - hell god. My breakdown was caused by my fear of what God might do to me since I was unable to love or respect Him.
One of the great comforts that helped me to recover was learning that many other people have suffered with the same problem. The following quote is from THE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL HELL TORMENTS OVERTHROWN by Samuel Richardson, edited by Thomas Whittemore, and published by him in 1833. On page 85, Whittemore says that Richardson wrote this book nearly 200 years before 1833.
First of all, there is what Richardson wrote nearly 200 years before 1833: “The doctrine of endless hell torments hath caused many to murder themselves, taking away their own lives by poison, stabbing, drowning, hanging, strangling, and shooting themselves, casting themselves out of windows, and from high places, to break their necks and by other kinds of death, that they might not live to increase their sin, and increase their torments in hell.”

Now here is what Whittemore the editor, wrote at the bottom of the page nearly 200 years later in 1833:
“Here we see the same dreadful effects attended the doctrine of endless misery nearly 200 years ago which attend it now. It was then the cause of anxiety, despair, and suicide, as we suppose it always was before, where fully believed, and as we know it has been of late years. Let posterity know, that within the last ten years, there have been a large number of suicides, which must be attributed to the doctrine of endless torment. That doctrine makes men melancholy; it drives them to despair; they know not what to do; and they sever the brittle thread, Fathers and Mothers, in repeated instances in the United States, have murdered their children, lest they should grow up, and commit sin, and be damned. Can a doctrine which produces such dreadful consequences be the doctrine of God?” End of Quote.

Note that the victims of this theology found no consolation in the Christian gospel. This was my problem too! The question I kept asking myself was, “How can I find comfort in the Christian Gospel when I can’t even love or respect its God?”
In my library, I have several dozens of books, most of which I have read, and several hundred cassettes, by 29 different speakers, all of which I have listened to, some of them many times, by men who believe that the Bible (correctly translated) teaches universal transformation; that is, that God will eventually change all suffering into something better that it happened. These books and tapes answer, many times over, the arguments that I have read in seven, (plus parts of other) books in support of the idea that the Bible teaches never ending suffering for part of God’s creation.
In addition to these sources, Hurley Books, Westmoreland, New Hampshire, lists 463 universalist books that can be purchased from them. It will be a comfort to many, as it was to me, to learn that there are so many people who see this kind of God in the Bible.
It is my great joy in life to make this information available to many people. God will use all my efforts as He sees fit. In this great truth I relax!

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #62

Good News

Many people are unable to believe on a Lord Jesus Christ who would allow anyone to want to, or have to suffer endlessly in hell. Because they cannot love or respect such a Christ, they are unable to put their trust in Him in a way that produces assurance of salvation. For these people, the following information will be good news:
GOD IS NOT GOING TO ALLOW ANYONE TO WANT TO, OR HAVE TO SUFFER FOREVER!
Some versions of the Bible have been mistranslated. The Greek noun “aion” means “age”, not eternal. And the Greek adjective “aionios” means “of the ages”, not forever or everlasting. The Greek text clearly teaches that the ages were made by God for a purpose. Ephesians 3:11 (“eternal purpose” should read “purpose of the ages”). They had a beginning, 11Tim 1:9 (“before the world began” should read “before times eonian”). And collectively, they will have an ending, Hebrews 9:26 (“in the end of the world” should read “at the conclusion of the eons”). The context of a verse doesn’t necessitate the use of the word “eternal.” Even when referring to the attributes of God, the use of the word “eonian” doesn’t mean that His attributes will change at the end of the ages. But at that point in time He will cease to be the “eonian God.” He will no longer need to manifest mercy, longsuffering, or forgiveness, for His “eonian purpose” will have been completed and God will be “All In All” 1 Corinthians 15:28.
The phrase “forever and ever” is a mistranslation. In the Greek, the phrase sometimes reads “for the age of the ages” which refers to the last age, probably the one following the millennial age. It could appropriately be called “the age of consummation.” In other verses, the phrase reads “for the ages of the ages” which probably refers to the millennial age and the age of consummation together. In the same way that “King of kings” and “Lord of lords”: separate one from others, so does the phrase “age of ages.” And in the same way that *“holies of the holies” would separate the holy place and the most holy place from the rest of the tabernacle, so does the phrase “the ages of the ages” separate the last two ages from the previous ones. The Sinaitic manuscript actually says “holies of Holies” instead of “Holy Places”.
The true, Biblical teaching about the ages has been obscured through faulty translating. The translators introduced their own ideas into the text instead of using the proper English equivalents, “eon” and “eonian.”
Not until the sixth century, did the belief in endless hell become prevalent within the Christian church. It is true that modern Greeks use “the ages of the ages” to denote an endless succession of ages, but this is due to the influence of the Greek Orthodox Church. That this expression “the eons of the eons” does not mean an endless succession of ages is established beyond doubt by comparing Revelation 11:14,15 with 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. In Revelation 11, Christ is said to reign “for the eons of the eons.” In 1 Corinthians 15, the reign of Christ is said to end. Therefore, if He reigns for the eons of the eons and His reign ends, the eons of the eons cannot be endless. Furthermore, Hebrews 9:26 says that the eons, collectively, end, so regardless of their number, they will collectively end.
To be sure there will be judgment. Wrongs will be righted. To those who have sinned much it will mean much indignation and fury, affliction and distress, Romans 2:8-9. But God corrects and disciplines only for good. Even hardened sinners who have often cursed Him, will be thankful for the strokes that bring them back to God. Each one gets only what is good for them in the judgment, not to damn them forever, but to prepare them for God’s salvation. If necessary, God will use a negative manifestation of His love, but negative or positive, He will keep loving, and keep loving until He has elicited a loving response from everyone.

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #63

DEATH SHALL BE ABOLISHED - 1 Cor. 15:20-28

Argument:
“This only means that believers will never die again.”

RESPONSES:
Bob Evely
I would simply suggest that these folks are ignoring the context of the 1 Corinthians 15 passage (ALL in Adam … ALL in Christ, etc) and the many other ALL passages in Scripture. It is a case where their minds are made up that only believers will ever be saved; so they find it necessary to place limitations on what the Scriptures actually say, lest their doctrines fall apart.

Tony Nungesser
Death is abolished for the believer AT HIS PRESENCE. In 1 Cor.15:25 death is abolished AFTER Christ hands over the kingdom to God and all sovereignty, authority and power are done away. Then the rest of mankind will have death abolished for them and only then.

Kenneth Larsen
For me, 1 Cor. 15:20-28 is where the abolition of death is best detailed. And the subject is clearly all mankind. Plus, it says plainly that it is the LAST enemy, clearly detailing the subjection of all which must occur BEFORE. And there are clearly still kings during the New Jerusalem eon, so human authorities have yet to be nullified; Christ’s mission isn’t complete. Rev. 21:24. Death will be abolished for all mankind in three stages -1 Cor. 15:22-24. Then there are verses like Romans 5:18, 19.

“For this was the Son of God manifested, that He should be annulling the acts of the Adversary.” 1 John 3:8b (CLV) That includes the act of leading Adam and Eve into the knowledge of good and evil. Christ was manifested to annul not only sin, but also death. For the second death to be endless would mean that the acts of the Adversary would never be annulled.

If only believers never die again, then death would be abolished when Christ returns, wouldn’t it? That would be the consummation or “end.” Why then is there the 1,000 years? Isn’t Satan an enemy? Yet the Bible says that death is the last enemy. Satan is still rebellious after the 1,000 years.

I would ask them, “When do you think death will be abolished?”

If they say, “When Christ returns”, I would ask, “And the events of
Rev. 20:7-15, do they occur after or before Christ’s second coming?”

If they say, “After”, I would ask them if they had read 1 Cor. 15:20-28 lately. I would encourage them to do so and to notice that death will be the last enemy, and God will abolish it. If they agree with that, I would ask them, how can death be abolished when Christ returns if Satan will later attack the saints; wouldn’t that mean that there are still enemies besides death in existence? Wouldn’t the fact that the nations will be deceived and join Satan in opposing God prove that God will still have many enemies at that time? I would point out that 1 Cor. 15:24-27 shows that Christ will give up His kingdom to God
the Father once all enemies are subjected and death is abolished. And I would mention one of the parallel passages in Mk. 12:36, which shows that Christ will be at God’s right hand UNTIL a certain point in time, which is detailed in 1 Cor. 15. Then I would point out how Rev. 22:1-3 shows clearly that the consummation of 1 Cor. 15:24, when Christ will surrender the throne to His Father, will not yet have arrived during the New Jerusalem eon.

My POV is that God would not name the lake of fire the second death, make that death permanent, and yet claim that death had been abolished. It simply doesn’t make sense to me. To argue that death being abolished only means that believers will never die again is
similar to saying that slums being abolished only means no new slums will be created, leaving the existing slums unchanged.

James Coram
The context has in view all mankind (not simply believers):
Death was long ago instituted (“to die, you shall be dying”); and yet
this institution which, at present, is very much still in effect, one
day, will be abolished.
concordant.org/expohtml/Huma … cor15.html
See article above on this point also, for the likeness/parallel I
draw between, on the one hand, slavery, and on the other, death.

Martin Zender
A snippet from The Really Bad Thing About Free Will (2006), pages
66-67, by Martin Zender:
“God is now conciliated to all mankind (II Corinthians 5:19). This blessing has come to us through the blood of Christ’s cross (Colossians 1:20). God no longer holds men’s offenses against them (II Corinthians 5:19). This same blood will reconcile all to Himself, both that in the heavens and that on earth (Colossians 1:20).
The cross saves everyone, but not all at once (I Corinthians 15:22-23). Jesus Christ is a ransom for all, but the testimony of it will not be seen until the eras designated to show it (I Timothy 2:6).God will one day be all and in all (I Corinthians 15:28). How can He
be that if billions of the all remain dead or tortured?
Paul speaks of a time called the consummation, when death is to be
abolished (I Corinthians 15:26; II Timothy 1:10). If there will one
day be no more death, then the time is coming when even the second
death will cease to be. At this time, those formerly captured by it
will be delivered into the life won for them by Christ on the cross.
With no more death, nothing remains but life. Some come to Christ
sooner, some come later. But eventually, all come.”

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #64
THE CIRCUMCISION EVANGEL VERSUS THE UNCIRCUMCISION EVANGEL
Bob Evely

As to the “why’s” of God’s plan; we can only speculate. The fact is that no man is deserving of grace, and God’s method is to begin with a group He has called (the body of Christ) to display His grace to the remainder of humanity and to proclaim the evangel … all toward the end that grace and salvation is realized by all.

As for the words of Jesus, we must remember these pertain to the kingdom to come upon the earth … the restoration of Israel’s kingdom. In many of Jesus’ words we see that the “rules” are very works-based. But later came a more full expression of grace, when God had demonstrated that NONE could earn righteousness thru works … and with the “new rules” that Paul subsequently talked about, it is all grace and no works to boast of.

When Paul talks about the fact that some, based on behavior, would not enter the kingdom … He is telling his audience that as it pertains to the earthly kingdom, these folks would be excluded. He says this to instill within them the idea that as a result of God’s grace, they too should avoid these behaviors. The main difference in evangel’s is that the Circumcision evangel told folks … have faith and works. Paul’s Uncircumcision evangel is simply have faith, as God has accomplished what man could not. We must remember that as we read various parts of the Scriptures that mankind is a work in progress. When we read of God’s anger, or folks being excluded from the earthly kingdom, etc. … this is a part of the process, thru which God is working toward His ultimate, eventual goal … the salvation and reconciliation of all.

When folks tend to ask questions about specific objections, always try to get them to first look at the basic overall plan that God has in store for mankind. In other words, we must consider the Bible in total first to see how God is working in all ages … and then we can worry about the specific questions. To jump into the questions too quickly takes the focus off of God’s revelation in total.

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #65

Love’s Goal

All that love is, God is, for God is love. As the negative side of love is unselfish - seeketh not her own - so her positive side is concern for others, a deep, ardent, all consuming concern: dauntless, self-sacrificing, invincible. “Love never faileth.” Such is the divine essence and this it is that is imparted to the creature.
There can be no self-complacency with God, neither could He provide a self-satisfied salvation. Divine joy is in the fullness of love, and love is all-embracing. To speak of a happy shepherd with an incomplete flock, or even of a happy flock with comrades missing, would be to malign both sheep and shepherd.
Heaven’s joys will be full only when sin’s sorrow cease. “Tis of mine” will be the yearning cry of the Good Shepherd spirit in the bosom of both saint and Saviour until the last of all the lost has been gathered home. Love cannot omit; His soul travail was for all. Neither can love abandon or forget. His purpose, as His promise, is “until He find it”. Thus it is that He is yet to “see of the travail of His soul and be satisfied.” And surely we too shall be satisfied when conformed to this likeness. Oh, the fullness of heaven’s joy when sin’s sorrows shall have ceased!
D. Buchanan

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #66

WHY?

Why did God make the universe, the earth and sky above?
Scripture gives the answer when it says that “God is Love”.
Before God made the universe He worked out a master plan.
He knew how everything would end before it all began.
He made mankind so He could have an object for His love,
But man was blind and did not see that it came from above.
So God created evil as He had created night,
So man could see the good in Him - In darkness we see light.
He made the “blackboard” very black, with evil, sin, and woe.
He made an adversary to be His cunning foe.
He made the earth to be a “stage” to show the hosts above,
By all of our experiences, His wisdom and His love.
He locks up all in stubbornness to make His mercy clear;
Lets Satan lure all men away so He can draw all near.
He gives His only firstborn Son to die and save us all.
Yet each in his own class we read; we’re blind until our call.
You ask me why God made the earth, the glittering stars above?
The Scriptures give the answer when they say that ‘God is love”.
Ray Prinzing

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #67

THE PLAN OF THE MASTER WEAVER

Our lives are but fine weavings
That God and we prepare,
Each life becomes a fabric planned
And fashioned in His care.

We may not always see just how
The weavings intertwine,
But we must trust the Master’s hand
And follow His design,
For He can view the pattern
Upon the upper side,
While we must look from underneath
And trust in Him to guide…

Sometimes a strand of sorrow
Is added to His plan,
And though it’s difficult for us,
We still must understand
That it’s He who fills the shuttle,
It’s He who knows what’s best,
So we must weave in patience
And leave to Him the rest…

Not till the loom is silent
And the shuttles cease to fly
Shall God unroll the canvas
And explain the reason why —
The dark threads are as needed
In the Weaver’s skillful hand
As the threads of gold and silver
In the pattern He has planned.

—Author Unknown

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #68

Is God a Failure? - Eleanor Garrod

Now that’s a pretty poignant question. Or is it an insinuation? An inference? Or implication? Or is it truth, as many would have you believe? Have you ever heard a sermon by that title? I doubt if you have. But I’m certain you have heard many a sermon which has been riddled with such implications.
Allow me to rephrase the question: Have you ever heard a sermon stating that if you don’t accept Jesus, you’ll burn forever in hell? Ah, I knew I’d touch a raw nerve. You have, haven’t you? If you heard that God is going to lose so much as one individual to the devil forever, then God is a failure.
If you have heard that the heathen (who have never had an opportunity to hear of Jesus) will be tormented forever for not believing in Him, then you’ve heard that God is a failure.
If you’ve heard that man’s puny will can withstand the omnipotent will of God, and that man’s will can paralyze God’s will, then you have heard that God is a failure.
If you’ve heard that the Adversary outsmarted God in the garden of Eden, if you’ve heard that God did not want Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then you’ve heard that God is a failure.
If you’ve ever heard anyone affirm that God will lose 95% of His created beings that He’s placed on planet earth, and will torment them forever, then you’ve clearly heard that God is a failure.
If the Good Shepherd is not willing that any should perish, and yet gets weary and gives up before He finds the last sheep that’s lost, then you know that God is a failure.
If no one can come to Jesus except the Father draws him, and if the Father - eventually - does not draw every single person, then God is a failure.
What is the response of your heart to the poised question: Is God a failure? Ah, my heart says, “Nay, a billion nays.” My heart has fallen in love with a God who does all things perfectly, and one day all will be made plain, and in the end He will become ‘All in All’ and for that day my heart does wait and meanwhile I rejoice and endure because I see Him, the invisible One.
By faith I see a Master Plan for the ages and beyond, and I know I am part of that plan, and for this I whisper, “Thank you, Jesus.” I sing a song to my Beloved, Hallelujah!
In Love with Him, Eleanor Garrod

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #69

A Message Of Comfort
Let Nothing be Worrying You!
William Mealand

“Let nothing be worrying you, but in every prayer and petition let your requests be made known to God with thanksgiving, and the peace of God, being superior to every frame of mind, shall garrison your hearts and your apprehensions in Christ Jesus” Phil 4:6-7.
There is an elixir of life in words like these. Touching life at all points, they embrace every experience, and affect every problem. How positive they are, how emphatic! There is no room left for the smallest doubt to intrude. The words are just an exquisite echo of the Psalmist’s thought - fret not thyself!
How complete, how inclusive the injunction is! Let nothing be worrying you. Not a single thing. But can we realize it? Is it possible to live up to such a counsel of perfection? A thousand times, yes! And for the great reason that this rare paragraph enshrines a God given assurance. There is a promise, a pledge of a superior peace - the peace of God, His perfect provision for the keeping, the steadying of our hearts in Christ Jesus.
What an expression of God’s solicitude! And for each of us to make true in the circumstances of life. How true, rests with the quality of our reliance upon God. In how far we leave things to Him, for His working out. And His appointment is never a disappointment. Therefore, on no account are we to worry. It does no good, changes nothing, nor ever gives us back the thing we prized. It enfeebles and wastes our strength, keeps the brain excited, the blood feverish, and the heart beating wildly.
If, then, we must not worry, and there are things in life calculated to make us anxious, how may we displace worry? By taking God into our confidence as we voice immediate needs. “Let your requests be made known to God, with thanksgiving.” Note the proviso - with thanksgiving, which in itself affects the burdened mind. Indeed, thankfulness for the simple things of life, the ordinary, forgettable things, means much.
The tragic indictment of the ancient world was that, “knowing God, not as God do they glorify or thank Him.” Stars in the heaven are thanked, the saints in the calendar, but not God. So many occasions call for it, and a voiced acknowledgment deepens our consciousness of His daily care.
No aspect or department of life is outside the interest of God, our Father. He is at all times an interested Listener. Our requests, therefore, may be unreservedly made known. Let them flow forth, without any concern as to how they will be met. That rests with God’s will and wisdom. Seeing all the intricacies of life, He appoints in accord with them. Has He not ordered them, both good and ill?
There are some things in life God would not have us change! And happy are we, if, in the acceptance of them, we see the Father’s own rare ordering. Let us so live, in the spirit of a line from a hymn: “I do not ask to see the distant scene, one step enough for me.” It suffices that we make our requests known to God, and leave them with Him. This done, with thanksgiving, there will come to heart and mind, God’s own wonderful peace.
“And the peace of God, being superior to every frame of mind, shall garrison your hearts and your apprehensions in Christ Jesus.” Here, in a peace which surpasses all power of thought, lies the strength and joy of Paul’s counsel of perfection. It is the peace of God, in contrast with, and superior to, all human counsel, palliative, or panacea.
Gift of the God of peace, it is the only calm in a world of unrest. But oh, how this peace differs from that which the world offers! WE see the word used all around us. Yet how little it conveys, how far short it falls, of all that such a word should stand for! Does it not look lost, as a wandering star from it’s orbit?
Only as linked with God and His ministering grace does the word hold real comfort and consolation. In such union it has vital power, confirming its frequent and heartening occurrence in the calm of a rich content. The peace of God. Grace and peace. Yes, yes. In spite of all around us, and the tangle of daily events, For our hearts shall be as a citadel, gloriously kept. “The Lord is thy Keeper.”
What a glad secret of life! One that Christ Himself exemplified. He did not worry or fret impatiently. He trusted, He rested supremely in God. He gave Himself completely over to God. He prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup be passing by from Me. Moreover, not as I will, but as Thou!” A second time He prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass by from me except I should be drinking it, let Thy will be done!” Matt. 26:39,42.
How sublime an example of utter submission to God’s will! There has been but One, and there will never be another so altogether acquiescent to the Father’s will. The purpose, will, and majesty of God, the Father, was everything to Him. How much so we have yet to see. In the meanwhile, let us hold by this superior peace. It is resident in Him. He is our peace, and He is on the throne, even the throne of the universe.
Therefore, “let nothing be worrying you.” Rather, “let your requests be made known to God, with thanksgiving.” In these two statements we have first a prohibition, then an injunction. Is it not that prayer should be the death of care? It follows, however, that the source or cause of worry should not be self-made. It should be that imposed on us, and not something fashioned by ourselves which we persist in carrying. This we must throw away. Life, to be happily lived, must have in all its aspects, a felt consciousness of God. At all times there should be a sense of God’s ruling. For, not only is God operating the universe in accord with the counsel of His will, but Christ is carrying it on by His powerful declaration. What control is here, and how complete! Just to feel that we are entirely in God’s hands, flung upon His care and control, is to know a peace inviolate. What small resemblance to the faith of Christ our faltering trust displays! Self looms so large with us, and hence disquietude. Not so with our Lord. He displayed the dignity of complete assurance. Rejecting His disquietude, He puts in its place the thought of the majesty and power of God the Father.
Let us learn of Him to quietly accept our Father’s will. Let us be disposed to that which is above, where Christ is, enthroned at God’s right hand. Then we shall know the peace of God, and how superior it is to every frame of mind. And the God of peace shall be with you, in every moment, every hour.
“Drop They still dews of quietness,
Till all our strivings cease:
Take from our souls the strain and stress,
And let our ordered lives confess
The beauty of Thy peace.”

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #70

THE BLACKEST OF ALL BACKGROUNDS

As some of you know, I, Rodger Tutt, had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78, I’m 75 now) over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God would let anyone suffer forever.

By listening to many audio tapes by Ray Prinzing over that period of time, I was able to gradually recover. All of Ray Prinzing’s writings can be accessed by typing his name into Google. There are several Google pages of links about him.

Millions of Muslims believe that non Muslims are going to suffer forever in hell.
Quote from
Islamic Beliefs about the Afterlife
“Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell, but non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally.”
religionfacts.com/islam/beli … erlife.htm

And, as most people already know, millions of Christians believe that non-Christians are going to suffer forever in hell.

The way that I emotionally cope with (i.e. stop myself from going crazy again) because of the existence of ETers (i.e. believers in eternal torment), is to perceive ETers as God’s vessels of grossest dishonour – a necessary foil of contrast in the guise of truth – a part of the blackest of backgrounds, upon which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation using the paint brushes of His love that cannot fail, and His grace that can never be defeated.

The marred vessels (i.e. ETers), never leave the Potter’s hands, (they are marred in the Potter’s hands), and neither will anyone leave the Potters hands. After our resurrection from the dead, all ETers will be refashioned, and transformed into vessels of honour, and it will be plain for all to see that it was better that ETers were vessels of dishonour for a long as they were (Jeremiah chapter 18).

One of the dishonourable characteristics of some ETers is that they have no desire whatsoever to check out the reasons why URs (i.e. universal reconciliationists) believe that a literally translated, (not interpretively) translated Bible, actually teaches universal salvation.

But it may be that a silent member, or surfer, or lurker on this forum might be motivated enough to check us out and decide if the conclusions of URs have any merit.

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

No doubt, some ETers will say that they have examined the evidence of the URs and have rejected it as being false. That, of course is to be expected of those for whom God has chosen to temporarily be a marred vessel. At least, that is the way I see it.
In my opinion, the greatest of all manifestations of God’s grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe that He is going to let anyone suffer forever and not have a nervous breakdown thinking about it.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN QUOTE

Quoted from A SOUTHERN UNIVERSALIST CHURCH HISTORY

“I used to think that it took the smartest kind of man to preach and defend Universalism; I now think entirely differently. It is the easiest faith to preach that I have ever heard.
There is more proof in its favor than in any other doctrine I have ever heard.
I have a suit in court here tomorrow and if I had as much proof in its favor as there is in Universalism, I would go home, and leave my student to take charge of it, and I should feel perfectly certain that he would gain it.”
-Abraham Lincoln

According to Google quotes Abraham Lincoln also said,
“The best way to destroy an enemy is to make them your friend.” (unquote)

God always does things “the best way.”

GOD’S “CONVERSION” – Kenneth Larsen

God’s “Conversion” : A mythological saga of our Heavenly Father’s change of character, as told by theologians, ancient and modern.

In Adam, all are dying, for the creation was subjected to vanity. 1Cor. 15:22; Ro. 8:20. It was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation. Ro. 5:18. We were all constituted sinners through the disobedience of one man. Ro. 5:19. This collective perdition came through no choice of ours as individuals, but is our inheritance, our fate.

Nevertheless, so the story goes, there came a time when God, wanting to conform His doings to the highest ethical standards, set Himself upon a radically different course. Henceforth, He would not act arbitrarily, but only in accordance with the rights and sovereign choices of the individual; from then on He was to obtain permission from His creature before acting on his or her behalf. In contrast to the collective loss, salvation was to be an individual matter, and subject to obtaining cooperation from His subjects. No more “spiritual collectivism”; now God had enthusiastically embraced the “spiritual free market”. Our Heavenly Father was now, henceforth and officially, a “Gentleman”, and would no longer force anything upon anyone; He would subject His will that all mankind be saved to the whims of the very creation He had formerly confined under collective condemnation. 1 Tim. 2:1-6. The “plan of salvation” would consist of Christ offering salvation to all, and then being satisfied with whatever percentage He could manage to save. Isaiah 53. He would be honorifically titled “the Savior of all mankind”, but that would really amount to nothing more than wishful thinking, for He would especially (that is, only, as the story goes) save those who believe during this life. 1 Tim. 4:9-11.

Did God truly change His dealings with mankind? Does He really change?
Of course not! Mal. 3:6; Heb. 1:12; 13:8; Jn. 14:9; 10:30. “For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.” 1 Cor. 15:22. “Even as… thus also…”- In similar fashion to the collective death, is the collective life! Romans 5:15- “But not as the offense, thus also the grace. For if, by the offense of the one, the many died, much rather the grace of God and the gratuity in grace, which is of the One Man, Jesus Christ, to the many superabounds.” Who are the many who died because of Adam’s offense? All mankind. And so, much rather, God’s gratuity in grace, through Christ’s perfect life and obedience to the death of the cross, SUPERABOUNDS to the many- all mankind! Does the salvation of some of those lost suggest a superabundance of grace? No! Does a collective, obligatory condemnation to sin and death, coupled with an individual, optional justification of life constitute a superabundance of grace? Not by a long shot! God subjected the creation to vanity in HOPE! Ro. 8:20. Did He hope that the entrance of sin would cause even one to be permanently lost? Of course not! Lk. 15:3-32.

Ro. 5:18, 19- “Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life’s justifying. For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.” As it was through Adam (a collective condemnation), THUS ALSO it will be through Christ (a collective justification of life)! God promises a universal reconciliation. Col. 1:15-20; Phil. 2:5-11. He will draw all creation to Himself, using whatever loving means He has at His disposal, including judgments. Jn. 12:32; 1:9-13; 1 Cor. 3:10-15; Lk. 12:45-49. Our Heavenly Father will confer faith and repentance upon all, at the time He chooses. 2 Pt.3:9; Acts 5:31; 11:18; 17:31; 2 Tim. 2:25. Obviously, our stubborn will must be subdued, but take heart, for “Not stronger that He are we!” 1 Cor. 10:22; Is. 45:22, 23. Our unchanging God will be All in all! 1 Cor. 15:20-28.

EDITOR’S NOTE

Some ask, Why does it say “the many” instead of “all” in Roman 5:19?

This is because the one disobedient man (Adam), and the One righteous Man (Christ) are put in a class by themselves. They are in contrast with “the many.”

We may put it as follows:
The one disobedient man plus “the many” equals all mankind made sinners.
The One obedient Man plus “the many” equals all mankind made righteous.

That “the one” plus “the many” made sinners includes all mankind no one will deny.

Even so, “the One” plus “the many” made righteous is all-inclusive and guarantees the salvation of all mankind.

FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #71
Gary Amirault interviews Greek scholar Louis Abbott about his belief in universal salvation (in eight parts)

youtube.com/watch?v=HJoNxjUAAi8
youtube.com/watch?v=UuoRnAsugew
youtube.com/watch?v=IAsVTXJYEHY
youtube.com/watch?v=H_sblmYiX4I
youtube.com/watch?v=Bfx6tcwq3M4
youtube.com/watch?v=iM5fSRDxVwg
tentmaker.org/video2/tag/athiest/
youtube.com/watch?v=NoWeKXdNhyg

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS - Louis Abbott
tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

ABOUT THE AUTHOR - Louis Abbott
tentmaker.org/books/asw/AboutAuthor.html

#1. A snippet from Universalism the Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian
Church During its First Five Hundred Years, by J. W. Hanson, 1899:

(Origen Adamantius)
“This greatest of all Christian apologists and exegetes was a distinctive Universalist. He could not have misunderstood or misinterpreted the teachings of his Master. The language of the New Testament was his mother tongue. He derived the teachings of Christ from Christ himself in a direct line through his teacher Clement; and he placed the defense of Christianity on Universalist grounds.
When Celsus, in his “True Discourse”, the first great assault on Christianity, objected to Christianity on the ground that it taught punishment by fire, Origen replied that the threatened fire possessed a disciplinary, purifying quality that will consume in the sinner whatever evil material it can find to consume….God will act the part….Origen says, “not like a cook but like a God who is a benefactor of those who stand in need of discipline of fire.””