SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Arguments/positions in defense of Evangelical Universalism.

Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Wed May 10, 2017 9:59 pm

More Questions:
In order to have a consistent, logical Biblical worldview, some questions about the Final Destiny of people must be answered. The Bible, to be credible, must be able to be logically explained. This is self-evident. As centuries have passed, ideas that were Orthodox, but unbiblical, have fallen away. Sometimes en masse, as during the Reformation. Sometimes more slowly, as with the gradual abolition of slavery, which was led and championed primarily by Christians.

Here are a few questions about the common Orthodoxy of Eternal Damnation. Unless these can be honestly answered, without rhetorical trickery, the Orthodox is just an unorthodox as Relics and paying for release of dead relatives from Purgatory was during the majority of Christian history.
• If some people will end up in eternal torment, is God unable or unwilling to save them? Logically, it must be one or the other. No tricky appeal to free-will can alleviate the tension of the question.
• If we determine our destiny by our free will, then is not our will stronger than God's will? How do we deal with passages as in Romans 9 that says we cannot resist His will?
• If some people will be tortured eternally, which is apparently the will of Satan, how is Satan a defeated foe? Doesn't eternal torment make Satan a partial victor?
• How can there be "no more tears" if some people will be tormented forever?
• How can we say that "His mercy endures forever!" if His mercy for us, in the most practical and real terms, ends if we do not choose to follow Christ before we die?
• Given the Bible's revealed standards of righteous and justice (which are clear and not myterious at all), how is unending punishment just reward for temporary sin? Again, the Bible is clear on standards so saying "God's ways are not our ways" or "It's a mystery with God" is only an avoidance of a hard question. The question must be Biblically answered with justification from Scripture.
• If God "gives up" on those who do not choose Jesus before death, how does the parable of the 100 Sheep, with 99 found and the master leaving the 99 to find the one lost one, make any sense?
• Why does God give up on people after death?
• If eternal Hell is the price for disobeying God and living in Sin, why did God hide that from Adam and Eve and promise a different penalty? Why did God hide the most horrific fate possible, torture in Hell forever, from mankind for entire Old Testament period (probably 4,000 years)?
• How does the idea of Col 1:15-20 "restore All Things" (Ta Panta - The universal All in Greek) make any sense if some things are permanently and irrevocably isolated from and unrestored to God forever?
• Why must an omnipotent, omniscient God, who describes Himself as "Love", settle for not having everything that has ever been made love and worship Him? Why must He settle for a divided creation in which some live in abundant joy and others live in mind-numbing torture? Is God really that weak or does He want that kind of reality?
• Why do we think that our "will" is so absolutely free, when it is affected by every little around us and we rarely respond from thought alone, but often from instinct built in us from birth?
• How can God be "All in All" as Revelation states He will be in the end if All is not in complete harmony with Him and His character of love, joy, peace, etc.?\
• Why did God create a place of unending torture in the first place?
• How is God glorified in unending pain that does not lead to being restored to righteousness and loving relationship to Christ?

These, and many more questions, must be answered scripturally and logically if the idea of an Eternal Torture is to be even considered as a Biblical possibility
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Thu May 11, 2017 11:41 pm

RAY PRINZING TAPES

RAY PRINZING IS MY EARTHLY HERO AND MENTOR

GOOGLE UP RAY PRINZING TO READ SOME REALLY GOOD WRITINGS

During my twelve year nervous breakdown caused by my inability to love a god who would allow anyone to suffer forever, I would listen to a Ray Prinzing tape while I washed the dishes of my family every day and before going to sleep at night. Through the years that I repeatedly listened to these tapes I became more and more confident that that I was going to recover from my breakdown.

In the opinion of Rodger Tutt of Toronto, Canada, the following are the best of all of Ray Prinzing’s taped sermons.

6 CHRIST OUR MERCY SEAT
8 NO SUBSTITUTE
9 TRUST
16 SEE NO EVIL
29 THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE
30 GOD’S WONDERFUL VENGEANCE
32 SUFFICIENT THE EVIL
35 CHANGING THY STRENGTH
36 AS KINGS AND PRIESTS
38 REVELATION TO REVELATION
42 THE TREE OF LIFE
48 KEPT IN PEACE
51 GOD’S RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENTS
55 ALLEGORY OF RACHEL
56 NONE SHALL BE LOST
59 REPENTANCE TOWARDS GOD
61 AND GOD REPENTED
63 THE END OF THE LORD
71 URGED ON BY FAITH
76 MINISTRY OF SALT
89 BLESSINGS REWARDED OR INHERITED
90 NO CONDEMNATION
95 NOT SOMEHOW BUT TRIUMPHANTLY
101 PASSING THROUGH
104 THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL
105 THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD
109 PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION
111 OF THE SAME LUMP
119 HELD TOGETHER BY LOVE
121 ESTABLISH THE SECOND
122 ESTABLISH THE SECOND, PART TWO
123 ESTABLISH THE SECOND, PART THREE
128 ADVANCE IN ADVERSITY
131 ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT
133 AFTER THE PRESSURES
134 THE POLISHED SHAFT
135 INTERNAL TRIUMPH
136 RECONCILED INTO HIMSELF
138 AT PEACE WITH YOUR CALLING
142 THE HIDDEN ONES
143 GOD’S GENTLENESS TO MAN
147 BEYOND DISCIPLINE
148 BEHOLDING HIM
149 DELIVERANCE
150 ENTER THY CHAMBERS
151 GOD OF THE VALLEY
152 GOD OF THE MOUNTAINS
153 IN QUIETNESS
154 IN CONFIDENCE
158 RENEWED INTO HIS MIND
160 EAT THE BOOK
161 HOLD FAST TO THE HEAD
162 THE SEVENTH MAN
164 SORROW TURNED INTO JOY
165 MAKE READY A PEOPLE
166 DESIRE OF ALL NATIONS
167 THE BIRTHRIGHT CHALLENGE
168 MY FATHER IS GREATER
169 HIS PARTICIPATING PRESENCE
170 CHANGES, TYRANNY OR BLESSING
171 TILL HE PLEASE
172 IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
173 KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL
174 THE SWORD GUARDED WAY
175 THE HEAVENLY VISION
176 DEFEATING THE ACCUSERS
177 NEITHER TOIL NOR SPIN
178 THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY
180 HE THAT SHALL ENDURE
181 LIFT UP A STANDARD
183 MUCH MORE
186 WHEN GOD HIDES HIS FACE
187 FAITH VICTORIOUS
188 DIVINE CONFIRMATION
189 WAIT FOR WISDOM’S CHILDREN
190 GOD CHOSE OUR FATHERS
192 LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER
194 EARTHEN VESSEL SINKS
196 A VERY PRESENT HELP
197 A NEW COAT, YEAR BY YEAR
198 COME UP HITHER
199 UNDER HIS SHADOW
200 A HUSHED SECRET
201 EXPECTATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
202 RETURNING INTO GOD
203 PUT A DIFFERENCE
204 FROM EAST TO WEST
206 TIME OF YOUR SOJOURNING
207 HIS HAND IS STRETCHED OUT
208 WHAT SHALL I DO?
209 TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS
210 GIVE DILIGENCE
211 LIVING EPISTLES
215 THE LORD THY REARWARD
216 THE ANGER OF THE LORD
217 GOD APPOINTED HORIZONS
218 HOLD FAST TILL I COME
219 ACTIVELY RESTING
221 AN INNER REJOICING
222 BLESS ME INDEED
224 NO MORE ECCENTRIC
225 NOT A SPIRIT OF FEAR
226 FORGET NOT ALL HIS BENEFITS
227 AND SUDDENLY
228 THE HEAVENLY HOST ATTENDS
229 FIT FOR THE KINGDOM
230 JUDGEMENT UNTO VICTORY
231 GOD IS IN CONTROL
232 THE LORD OUR HELPER
233 OUR THREEFOLD JUDGEMENT
235 GOD COUNTED THE COST
236 THY LIFE FOR A PREY
237 THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
238 FROM POVERTY TO RICHES
239 ABIDING IN GOD
240 PARTS OF HIS WAYS
241 CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST
242 MASTER OF MYSELF
243 ANOINTED EYE SIGHT
244 FAITH THAT OBTAINS
246 THE FURNACE FOR GOLD
247 RAISE UP THE FOUNDATION
248 SHALL PROSPER IN HIS HAND
250 INWARD REVELATION OF THE SON
251 KINGDOM LIFE TRANSFORMING
252 SO GROWS THE KINGDOM
253 AFTER YE HAVE SUFFERED
254 CHOSEN TO KNOW HIS WILL
255 HEALING THE BREACHES
256 OUR THREEFOLD RESURRECTION
257 A THORN FOR THE FLESH
258 THE MINISTRY OF WAITING
259 THERE IS A RIVER
267 HEARING, LEARNING, COMING
268 THE LORD ALWAYS BEFORE ME
269 HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED
270 GOLD IN THE MAKING
271 MAKE TO LACK, READY TO FILL
273 ACQUAINTED WITH THE ALMIGHTY
274 EACH IN HIS OWN RANK
278 GOD’S UNFINISHED WORK
280 FULLY PERSUADED
285 CONTINUALLY WITH HIM
286 SURRENDERED TO HIS LORDSHIP
295 TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS
296 INIQUITY SHALL HAVE AN END
297 OVERFLOW WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS
298 THINGS BELONGING TO PEACE
301 HIS DESIRE IS TOWARD ME
302 REFINED AS SILVER
303 AND GOD REMEMBERED
304 LOOSE THE PRISONER
305 ASPECTS OF SPIRITUAL LIFE
306 GOD’S INDWELLING CONTROL
307 OUT OF HIM WE CAME
308 GRACE UPON GRACE
309 JUDGEMENT RESTS FOR A LIGHT
310 HIS MERCY ENDURETH FOREVER
312 THE SURE MERCIES OF DAVID
315 THE DEVIL DESTROYED
316 TOTAL AVAILABILITY
317 VIEWING THE THIRD DAY
326 KINGDOM AUTHORITY

THE BEST OF THE BEST OF THE RAY PRINZING TAPES

GOOGLE UP RAY PRINZING TO READ SOME REALLY GREAT WRITINGS

Ray Prinzing’s very best, and his two extra good tapes.

30 GOD’S WONDERFUL VENGEANCE
101 PASSING THROUGH
104 THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL
109 PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION
123 ESTABLISH THE SECOND, PART THREE
138 AT PEACE WITH YOUR CALLING
215 THE LORD THY REARWARD
216 THE ANGER OF THE LORD
217 GOD APPOINTED HORIZONS
226 FORGET NOT ALL HIS BENEFITS
230 JUDGEMENT UNTO VICTORY
232 THE LORD OUR HELPER
235 GOD COUNTED THE COST (extra good)
236 THY LIFE FOR A PREY
237 THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
248 SHALL PROSPER IN HIS HAND
255 HEALING THE BREACHES
295 TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS
315 THE DEVIL DESTROYED
339 GOD SO LOVED HE GAVE
352 BUT GOD MUCH MORE
385 FREEDOM OF THE GLORY
387 ESTABLISHED BY GRACE (extra good)
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Fri May 12, 2017 6:44 pm

I was never able to believe what I was taught at Bible school.
Fortunately for me, my wife Helen couldn’t believe it either.

I guess an appropriate question would be, “Why did I bother to go to Bible school”?
I would say that I went to learn how I best could influence people to get them to trust in Jesus for their salvation from everything from which they needed to be saved. I had been taught from childhood that we need to be saved from “eternal torment,” but I was never able to really believe that. In fact just the thought that it might be true caused me continual intense emotional distress.

Since I was not much of a preacher, I concluded after graduating, that I would be most useful in Christian literature distribution which Helen and I did for forty years.

Everyone has an "opinion," including Ray Prinzing (my earthly hero and mentor).

I'm just so glad that I discovered his "opinion" that enabled me to recover from a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78, I'm 78 now) caused by my inability to love or trust a god who would let anyone suffer forever or annihilate them. During that period of time I had continual panic attacks both night and day.

During my breakdown, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes and before I went to sleep at night, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.

I have listened to 178 of them twice, and 23 of them several times.

In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH (because someone else had the copyright on GOSPEL ECHOES) and I gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

Many people have an earthly hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.
Ray Prinzing is that earthly hero to me.

For several years my 104 year old dad (who is still living) called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.

As I listened to Ray’s tapes I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.

Now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that the info I share is helping other people in the same way that it helped me.

All of Ray Prinzing's writings can be accessed by typing his name into Google. There are several pages of Google links about him.

The theme of universal salvation is prominent in all of Ray’s writings, but his book
REDEMPTION ALL IN ALL is especially good

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but he will not likely be forgotten on this earth for many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sat May 13, 2017 11:11 pm

RAYMOND VAN DYKE
Mr. Ray A. Van Dyke, compiled a comparison between the revelation given in Revelation and that given to Paul, as recorded in 1 Cor. 15:22-28. His comments are reproduced here:
“In the book of Revelation we do not have the final plan of God. Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:22-28 takes us much further into the future than does the book of Revelation. To illustrate this more clearly, study the following: 1 Cor. 15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20:21-22:

In 1 Cor. 15:22-28, we have:
• No more rule
• No more authority
• No more power
• No more enemies
• No more reigning
• All subjected
• No more death, death destroyed.
• All made alive, immortal

In Revelation 20:21-22, we have:
• Still rule (20:6; 22:5)
• Son still reigns (22:1-5; 11:5)
• Authority (21:24,25)
• Power (21:24,25; 22:2
• Kings (21:24-26)
• Saints reign (22:5)
• Second death still exists (21:5)
• The nations still mortal (22:2)
-end quote
Christians who believe in universal reconciliation believe that the Bible is God’s Word, and His Word cannot contradict itself, hence the inspired sacred Scriptures say in Rev. 11:15; 22:5, eis tous aionas ton aionon, “for the eons of the eons.” Thus, Christ our Lord “reigns for the eons of the eons,” not as the king’s translators rendered, “forever and ever.” Therefore, Revelation 20:21, 22 fits into the framework of the eons, and is truth relative to the eons. First Corinthians Chapter 15 fits at the consummation (end) of the eons. We give the second Adam, Christ, as much credit and numerical ability as the first Adam, and use 1 Cor. 15:22-28 also for this truth. (Read Rom. 5:18-19.)

http://lovewins.us/388/an-analytical-study-of-words/
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sun May 14, 2017 9:51 pm

RECONCILED

BAPTISM

Do you believers in eternal torment believe that the thousands of members of THE SALVATION ARMY and the thousands of members of the many BRETHREN ASSEMBLIES are going to suffer forever? None of them believe in "the great commission" baptism.

PAUL’S GOSPEL FOR TODAY

That God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation (2Cor. 5:19).

Repentance will occur when God lays hold on the sinner by His saving grace and makes Jesus choice in his heart just like He did for Saul of Tarsus.

SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS DEBARRED

HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE - James Coram
CHOOSING WHAT IS CHOICE
http://concordant.org/expositions/his-a ... ng-choice/
"No one to whom Christ is not yet choice can choose Christ.
And Christ cannot be choice to anyone to whom He has not yet been made choice.
When He is made choice He becomes choice and so is choice; or to say the same thing, He is chosen.
This first act of the believer in which Christ is consciously chosen, is merely a consequence of his new mental preference which has been graciously granted to him by God." (end quote)

When God lays hold on us by His saving grace, any cooperation such as repentance will occur just like it did for Saul of Tarsus.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Mon May 15, 2017 8:46 pm

Does Scripture Teach Universal Salvation?
YES IT DOES !
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/Underst ... %20One.htm
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Tue May 16, 2017 9:27 pm

RICH MAN AND LAZARUS

And without a parable spake not Jesus unto the multitude Matt 13:34

https://www.godfire.net/eby/abrahams.html
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Wed May 17, 2017 8:46 pm

RICHARD CONDON

QUESTIONS WITHOUT ANSWERS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Question ... swers.html

From the introduction
"To those holding a limited view of God's plan of salvation, they are truly Questions Without Answers, but, to those who rely on God's Word, the answers become apparent as His truth is revealed to them."

An important follow-up! - by Richard Condon
A REFUTATION AND A RESPONSE
http://www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm

RICHARD CONDON’S UNIVERSAL SALVATION LIBRARY

THE MAIN LIBRARY AND IN THE GARDEN
http://web.archive.org/web/201107132242 ... /gtft.org/

IN THE GARDEN
http://web.archive.org/web/201107050953 ... index.html

VALUABLE LINKS!
Richard Condon's library of writings by dozens of universal reconciliation writers.
The section called IN THE GARDEN is especially inspirational.
http://web.archive.org/web/201107132242 ... /gtft.org/
http://web.archive.org/web/201107050953 ... index.html
And THE MAIN LIBRARY is huge!
ENJOY!
rodgertutt
 
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Thu May 18, 2017 8:39 pm

THE RECONCILIATION OF SATAN
I believe that the reconciliation of Satan will be the greatest manifestation of God's grace in action among the celestials
http://www.godfire.net/eby/reconcilehvns.html

UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – MINNIE ALBERTSON
“The original scriptures taught final universal salvation; but translators usually rejected that theme. So they added to, or dropped words, to make the text conform to their wrong thinking. They could not eradicate the original theme; but we inherited their wrong thinking in our translations, and so we have the resulting direct contradictions. Unknown time periods they made endless.

Salvation is for angels also. ‘All things were created by Him, and for Him’ (Col. 1:16).
‘For Thy pleasure they are and were created (Rev. 4:11). So He ‘reconciles all things unto Himself, whether they be on earth, or things in the heavens (Col. 1:16-21).

Even the devil is not too evil to be corrected. Note who he belongs to, as well as those he deceives. ‘The deceived and the deceiver are His’ (Job 12:16). (end quote) (Job 12:16).

“God delights to reconcile all, whether those on the earth, or those in the heavens (Col. 1:20). Therefore there is no more reason to suppose that Satan is not included therein than that any other certain creature is not included therein. Therefore it must be that that notable creature who had rightly long been termed “the Adversary,” is very much included in the reconciliation of the universe, at which time this title (“Adversary” or “Satan”) necessarily will no longer apply, since he will be reconciled and be at peace.” (end quote)
Jim Coram, UNSEARCHABLE RICHES, March 2005.

“Ah, I long intently for that day when even the devil himself shall put away his pitchfork, hang up his horns, and come humbly and brokenly to the Father's house! Does that startle you? How else could it be in that glad day when the Christ has finally RECONCILED ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH, including all the PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS OF THE HEAVENLY SPHERE!” (end quote)
RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS – J. Preston Eby
http://www.godfire.net/eby/reconcilehvns.html

THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL – PAUL SIEGVOLCK
“Col. 1: 16-20 teaches us the extent of the reconciliation made by Christ, namely, that it extends itself over the whole creation. Therefore the fallen angels must also necessarily have their share in it, for they do incontestably belong to the invisible things created by Christ, and consequently to all things including the things in the heavens.

‘Jehovah is good to all: and His tender mercies are over all His works.’ Psalm 145:9
In this passage we are plainly told that the mercy of God, or His tender love, does not only extend itself to men, but universally towards all creatures that have their being and stand in need of mercy; and consequently also towards the fallen angels; which tender love of God must necessarily at last effect or bring about the restoration of all corrupt creatures, for it is not a weak or faint, but an almighty love.” (end quote)

AVITUS and BASIL, A GRECIAN (approx. 410 A.D.) together taught
“Future torments are not endless; for although they are called everlasting, yet that word in the original Greek, does not, according to its etymology, and its frequent use, signify endless, but answers only to the duration of an age; so that every sinner, after the purification of his conscience, shall return into the unity of the body of Christ.
The devil himself will at length be saved, when all his wickedness shall have been subdued. (end quote)

ERSKINE’S SKETCHES OF CHURCH HISTORY records the words of John Gasper Christian Lavater.
“God is not gracious in time and cruel through eternity. Ascribe not to God, what in a human judge all would account a defect in wisdom and goodness, the punishing for the sake of punishing. It is enough my Creator, Thou art love. Love seeketh not her own; Thou seekest the happiness of all, and shouldst Thou not then find what Thou seekest? Shouldst Thou not be able to do what Thou willest?

My prayers are comprehensive. I embrace in my heart all men; present and future times, and nations, yea Satan himself. I present them all to God, with the warmest wishes that He will have mercy on them all.” (end quote)

CLOUDS AND SUNSHINE – J.S. Taylor
I cannot believe that any being will exist in any part of the universe, so steeped in guilt and anguish (no, not Satan himself), as to be beyond the redeeming love and healing power of the Creator.

Oh, no; on the contrary, I believe that in this mysterious, but divinely ordained conflict of good and evil, the powers of light are everywhere slowly but surely gaining the ascendancy over the powers of darkness, and that it will continue to be so, even unto the perfect day; yes, that perfect day, wherein all these blessed victories over sin and ignorance shall have been consummated, these transformations completed, and no solitary stain of folly, guilt, or grief, be left to mar the lustre of the universe.” (end quote)

Gregory of Nyssa (335-390)
What is the scope of St. Paul’s dissertations? That the nature of evil shall, at length, be wholly exterminated, and divine immortal goodness embrace within itself every rational creature; so that of all who were made by God, not one shall be excluded from His kingdom. All the viciousness that like a corrupt matter is mingled in things shall be dissolved and consumed in fire; and everything shall be restored to its pristine state of purity.

In 1Cor. 15:22-28, the apostle Paul declares the extinction of all sin, saying that God will be All in all. For God will be truly All in all only when no evil shall remain in the nature of things. All evil must at length, be entirely removed from everything, so that it shall no more exist. For such being the nature of sin, that it cannot exist without a corrupt motive, it must, of course, be perfectly dissolved and wholly destroyed, so that nothing can remain a receptacle of it, when all motive and influences shall spring from God alone.

As the devil assumed a fleshly shape in order to ruin human nature, so the Lord took flesh for the salvation of man; and thus He blesses not only him who was ruined, but him also who led him into perdition; so that He both delivers man from sin, and heals the author of sin himself.” (end quote)

COMMENTARY ON THE NEW TESTAMENT – Jerome (347-420 A.D.)
"In the end or consummation of things, all shall be restored to their original state, and be again united in one body. We cannot be ignorant that Christ’s blood benefited the angels and those who are in hell; though we know not the manner in which it produced such effects. The apostate angels shall become such as they were created; and man, who has been cast out of paradise, shall be restored thither again. And this shall be accomplished in such a way, that all shall be united together by mutual charity, so that the members will delight in each other, and rejoice in each other’s promotion.

The apostate angels, and the prince of this world, though now ungovernable, plunging themselves into the depths of sin, shall, in the end, embrace the happy dominion of Christ and His saints."

THE WAY TO SALVATION IN THE CHRISTIAN GOSPEL – ERNEST L. MARTIN
“The traditional interpretation of an everlasting hell fire for sinners is as wrong and as senseless as believing that a three dollar bill is legal tender.

Ultimate salvation is something that has been secured by Christ for all mankind without the works of man (either good or bad) being involved in the issue. Everyone will finally be saved and brought to a full knowledge of the truth of God. All humans will finally be forgiven for their sins and they will become reconciled to God. All things in the heavens, on earth and under the earth (the angels who are kept in chains in the bowels of the earth) will one day proclaim the Lordship of Christ to the glory of God the Father.

But it will not only be all humans who are reconciled to God (now that God has reconciled Himself to mankind). The reconciliation will reach out to embrace all the hostile powers which have been out of harmony with God over the centuries. There is prophesied, according to Paul, a full reconciliation between all the antagonistic beings throughout the universe. Even they will be reconciled amongst themselves,
Between themselves and mankind, and between themselves and God the Father (Col. 1:20). All grievances, both divine and human, are disposed of through the life and death of Christ our Saviour. Peace has been, or will be established between all hostile parties throughout the universe.

TWO STUDIES ON HEAVEN AND HELL – A.E. KNOCH
“Love is the great thing. God loves me. Christ died for me to display God’s affection. It has filled my heart to overflowing. I have tried to share it with my fellows, but O, so feebly and faithlessly. Yet I have known no joy so pure and permanent, no bliss so ecstatic as comes to me when some straying sinner or seeking saint enjoys God’s love through some word of mine. What will it be to be perfectly equipped with inexhaustible supplies of power and grace and fare forth into the celestial realms as an ambassador of peace to proclaim the evangel of God’s limitless love to the celestials of the starry spheres? This --- this will be happiness --- and heaven.

Not only does Paul see the entire earth blessed and saved, but all reconciled whom God created – even the principalities and powers of the heavens (Col. 1:20). So great is the power of the cross!”

A POEM BY A.G. CAMPBELL
I deem they greatly err, who hold
That He Who made the human soul,
Will not its destinies control
For final good – but, wrathful, fold
It in the shrouds of hopeless woe,
Of deathless gloom, of quenchless fire,
The creatures of His vengeful ire,
Whence it can never ransom know.

So, in the world to come, His love
Shall freely unto all abound;
Even prisoners in the depths profound
Shall see His kind face beam above
Their dreary cells, and hear His voice,
Unheeded once, in mercy call, --
“Turn, turn to Me and live!” and all
Shall hear the summons and rejoice.

Lost men, lost angels, shall return, --
Satan himself be purified;
Death shall be conquered in his pride,
And hell’s fierce fires shall cease to burn.
Then shall our God be All in all –
His love bear universal sway;
His love preserves all souls for aye,
Nor shall the weakest fear a fall.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Fri May 19, 2017 9:27 pm

SAUL OF TARSUS – ACTS 9:1-9

“Free willers” argue that Jesus chose Saul of Tarsus because He knew that Saul would accept Him.
Fact is, ANYONE would accept him under Saul’s predicament.
A light from heaven blinds him and he falls to the earth and hears a voice saying, “I am Jesus Whom you are persecuting.”
It is absurd to think that anyone would reply to Jesus, “Screw you Jesus Christ. I’m going to keep slaughtering your followers just like I did before.”

Few of us have a conversion experience as dramatic as Saul’s but it was just as surely a product of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and CAUSING Jesus to be choice in our heart. It is impossible to give ALL the glory to God and avoid self-righteousness when we claim that it was not God Who CAUSED our new mental preference.

HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE - James Coram
CHOOSING WHAT IS CHOICE
"No one to whom Christ is not yet choice can choose Christ.
And Christ cannot be choice to anyone to whom He has not yet been made choice.
When He is made choice He becomes choice and so is choice; or to say the same thing, He is chosen.
This first act of the believer in which Christ is consciously chosen, is merely a consequence of his new mental preference which has been graciously granted to him by God."
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sun May 21, 2017 1:05 am

THE SECOND DEATH

THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM

“The main point which we seek to impress upon our readers is to accept God’s declaration that, for those who are judged before the great white throne, the lake of fire is the second death, not a second lifetime.

While the ‘injury’ (literal translation) sustained by those who are cast into the lake if fire (in Revelation 20:14,15) will be fatal (since to these the lake of fire is the second death), it will not be permanent. We may be certain that this is the case, for, at the consummation, death will be abolished and all will be vivified, that God may be All in all. God is the Saviour of all mankind, and this includes all who enter the second death.”
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sun May 21, 2017 9:18 pm

SEQUENTIAL LOGIC
Wishful thinking has nothing to do with it.
It is true that there are things that God cannot do.
For example, God cannot lie. But He doesn’t want to lie.
But He DOES want to save ALL mankind.

SEQUENTIAL LOGIC - Kenneth Larsen

Can God do anything He wishes? Yes. “All that Yahweh delights He does,
In the heavens and on earth, In the seas and every abyss” Ps. 135:6.
See Matt. 19:25, 26.

Does God wish all to be saved? Yes. “Who will have all men to be saved
and to come to the knowledge of the truth” 1 Tim. 2:4. See Acts 4:12.

Therefore, it is apparent that God is able to save what was lost, and
since He desires to save all that was lost, He has promised to do just
that. Phil. 2:9-11; Col. 1:20; 1 Cor. 15:20-28.

Faith in God’s promises,

And an acquaintance with His character and power,
KNOWING THE REAL JESUS
God is Love: God Is Love! *The Power of God's Love;*Love Your Enemies! Knowing The Real Jesus
https://www.godfire.net/eby/godislove.html

and sequential logic,

and THE HISTORY OF THE EARLY CHURCH
Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html

And they were reading the Bible in its original language!

all support universal reconciliation.

Wishful thinking has nothing to do with it.

THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Mon May 22, 2017 10:08 pm

should and may – James Coram

As to the word “should” in Phil 2:10,11 and the “may” of 1Cor. 15:28, it is not the should or may of doubt but is a dependent clause based upon the grammar of the subjunctive.
For instance, a clear example of the subjunctive of “may” and “should” is when I state, “I have a pen in my hand. I will loosen my grip on the pen so that it may or should be falling.” The falling of the pen is dependent on my loosing it. It definitely will fall should I loosen my grip on it. There is no doubt in the “may” or “should.”

Now, looking at the passage; “Wherefore, also, God highly exalts Him, and graces Him with a Name that is above every name, that in the Name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean, and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God the Father.” Phil. 2:9-11.
Every knee bowing and every tongue acclaiming is dependent upon
1. Christ going to the cross (verse 8), and
2. God gracing Him with a Name above every name.
Since these have taken place, all WILL bow the knee, and their tongue WILL acclaim Jesus as their Lord.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Tue May 23, 2017 8:45 pm

SINS JUSTIFICATION – DONALD G. HAYTER
“Although God introduced sin through the agency of His creatures, yet He did not sin in so doing. For it was no mistake, no failure of His. It was in accord with His intention, and it will be justified by the beneficial results obtained through its agency.
God is justified in all He does, for His final intention to glorify Himself and bless all of His creatures is the dominating purpose which adds luster to all His eonian operations.
In the brilliant glory of His ultimate, the most somber and gloomy features of earth’s history are transformed into a brilliant display of His power, wisdom, and love.

During the final eons, every creature in the heavens, and on earth, and under the earth, will have learned of the sufferings of the Christ, and of the depths of the Father’s love revealed in them. And every knee will bow to Him Who died, acclaiming Him Lord, for the glory of God the Father. Very feebly we can enter into the joy, the satisfaction, the thankfulness that will be His as He views the vast potentials of love and adoration that will be pulsing within the heart of everyone.

Thus will all ultimately be justified. God’s matchless wisdom, serving in the cause of His love, has produced a method of salvation that calls forth the adoring wonder of our hearts. What a God we have!”

THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – GUY MARKS
“Evil begins with God and is a necessary part of His plan. It is the method He uses to accomplish His purpose. Usually when man works evil he sins because His motives are wrong, but this is not true of God for His motive is always to produce good. God uses the forces of evil to bring about good.

The teaching that sin and death are eternal is a travesty of God’s character, for it presents God standing by in complacency while Satan introduces an evil that all but destroys the human race.

The purpose of evil is to establish a background for a display of God’s love and grace which we could never know apart from the experience of sin. Evil is a necessary part of God’s purpose to mold us and to fashion us in the image of His beloved Son. Evil is a problem only to those who fail to see God’s purpose in it and who refuse to believe that God will bring blessings to all mankind through His dealings with evil and sin. The forces of evil cannot continue beyond the circumference of God’s purpose in it. God always has control over the forces of evil and evil never has any power apart from the authority of God. God has complete control over Satan and all of his activities.

The teaching that sin is to continue eternally blinds our minds to an understanding of the purpose of evil. Those who have made the greatest progress in seeking out the revelation of the cross no longer consider evil to be a problem, for the cross of Christ will turn all the evil of sin into infinite good. God will do infinitely more than repudiate sin and abolish death. He will not simply restore the human race to the status of Adam in the garden.

God’s grace differs from Adam’s offence because it will accomplish far more than Adam lost. Then too that which resulted from Adam’s offense is temporary but the results of grace will be permanent. Grace more than meets the need for it exceeds the need by far. It is enough and to spare for it is a superabundance. And this proves conclusively that the ruin caused by Adam’s sin is overcome and more by the superabundance of grace.

Before the eons, before there was any evil, before there was any sin, God designated all the events that would make sure that not one would be trapped in the forces of evil, but that all would be delivered from death and sin. God prearranged it all, from the fall of man to the glory of the consummation. Not one thing was left to chance. All was founded on His wisdom.

To some evil will never cease, or so they believe. God is never able, or at least He never tries to bring about so much good that all evil will vanish. They try to justify God with the false teaching that man is a free moral agent. But the only freedom of man that the scriptures present is the freedom that comes through the deliverance which is in Christ Jesus.”

THE EONS OF THE BIBLE – JOSEPH E. KIRK
The introduction reads “Mistranslation of the Greek word ‘aion’ is a master stroke of diabolical genius. Perhaps no other word erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. Because the understanding of the eons and God’s purpose in them has been lost, the church is divided on important issues like judgment, and man’s destiny. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after spiritual truth will be aided in their quest.”

Here is a snippet from the writing itself. “During this present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), sin reigns, Satan who is said to be ‘the god of this eon’ (2Cor. 4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1Cor. 15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and in supreme control. He is the eonian God.
In due time, He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom. 8:18-23).”

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Wed May 24, 2017 10:41 pm

SOONER OR LATER
WORDS TO INSPIRE THE SOUL
Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, He is going to save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.
A will in bondage to an enslaved mind is only “free” to choose what they prefer which is summed up in Romans 3:10-18. Until God intervenes and causes Jesus to be choice in their heart like He did for Saul of Tarsus, the sinner will always choose their own way rather than God’s way unless they happen to coincide.

Gerry Beauchemin wrote
”Tradition has taught that God will not save a person against their will. I agree. However He has the power to orchestrate whatever circumstances are necessary to effect one’s will to change.

Once a full revelation of God is received in the ages to come (Eph. 2:7), men will bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord just as Isaiah and Paul prophesied (Is. 45:21-25; Rom. 4:11; Ph. 2:9-11). Who would want to continue in active and persistent rebellion knowing God only wants what is best for them? Knowing the great goodness and love of God, along with the Holy Spirit working in their hearts, these hardened hearts must melt before His glorious being.

It is impossible that an omnipotent God can fail in His purpose so that some would forever resist unconditional love opting for everlasting pain. This would be totally irrational. And even if one were that irrational, such resistance would not arise out of a ‘free’ will, but an ‘enslaved’ will, a will in bondage to an enslaved mind.”
GERRY BEAUCHEMIN

Here is a helpful article on the subject.
MAN IS NOT A FREE MORAL AGENT
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

In the conclusion of THE BONDAGE OF THE WILL, Martin Luther wrote
“There can be no "Free-will"—in man,—in angel,—or in any creature!”
http://www.truecovenanter.com/trueluthe ... .html#conc

“God is now conciliated to all mankind (II Corinthians 5:19). This
blessing has come to us through the blood of Christ’s cross
(Colossians 1:20). God no longer holds men’s offenses against them (II
Corinthians 5:19). This same blood will reconcile all to Himself, both
that in the heavens and that on earth (Colossians 1:20).
The cross saves everyone, but not all at once (I Corinthians
15:22-23). Jesus Christ is a ransom for all, but the testimony of it
will not be seen until the eras designated to show it (I Timothy 2:6).
God will one day be all and in all (I Corinthians 15:28). How can He
be that if billions of the all remain dead or tortured?
Paul speaks of a time called the consummation, when death is to be
abolished (I Corinthians 15:26; II Timothy 1:10). If there will one
day be no more death, then the time is coming when even the second
death will cease to be. At this time, those formerly captured by it
will be delivered into the life won for them by Christ on the cross.
With no more death, nothing remains but life. Some come to Christ
sooner, some come later. But eventually, all come.”
Martin Zender
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Thu May 25, 2017 8:07 pm

Man's [Free] Will vs. God's Will
Stuart Pouliot

"Man is helpless in his sin, so why do we make man a hero in his own salvation, as if he can save himself by exercising his so-called free will ? God the Creator alone is responsible for His creation, and He has taken on the full responsibility to save all mankind through His Son. We need to be continually reminded that it is God's will that is being worked out in the ages, not man's will, and that God will accomplish all that He wills through His Son. In Christ all will be made alive! All things come forth through God.

There is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. (1 Corinthians 8:6 NASB)

We need to stop holding to a small, impotent god created in our own image and embrace the God of All who will be All in all new. Further, we need to stop boasting in ourselves or encouraging others to boast in themselves when it comes to our so-called salvation. Perhaps, just perhaps, if we moved off of this ground, we would begin to praise God for His glorious plan to save all mankind, eventually . Just imagine the power of the gospel that would go forth based on the pure love of God and not on some fear of a fictitious pagan place called hell."
http://kingdomandglory.com/art/art56.html

THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Fri May 26, 2017 11:47 pm

CONSEQUENSES OF TEACHING THE DOCTRINE OF “ETERNAL HELL”
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/consequences.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many people are unable to love a god who would let anyone choose themselves into a state of inescapable everlasting suffering.

The idea that God lets anyone suffer forever caused me more suffering, including a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, than all the other sufferings of my life combined.

This suffering was caused by the fear produced by not being able to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever and wondering what this god would do to me for not being able to love him. Even though I was and am trusting for my salvation in what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I was, and still am unable to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Here are testimonies similar to mine.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/consequences.html

If you are like me and cannot love a god who would let anyone suffer forever, you can copy and paste (if necessary) the following urls into the address bar and find out that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not even annihilation.

Copy and paste into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES – J. Preston Eby
If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... larity.htm

At the top and bottom of that same THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD page, there is the following link to fourteen other writings in the same series that deal with the many aspects of this same subject.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm

Quoted from AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott
"Forever and Ever"--A Poor Translation
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter5.html
The smoke of their torment rises for a limited period of time. Here is the proof.
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/forever_eternity.html
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sat May 27, 2017 11:09 pm

TESTIMONY – RODGER TUTT

I would like to tell you about both the negative and positive sides of my testimony in case it might be a help to other members, or surfers, or lurkers, of this forum who have, or are experiencing what I went through for similar reasons.

I'm 78 years old, and had I known that evidence existed that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible does not teach that anyone will suffer forever I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) over my inability to love an endless-hell god.

THE NEGATIVE SIDE OF MY TESTIMONY

From my earliest memories of my childhood I was taught by my parents and Sunday School teachers and pastors that if I didn't believe the Bible is the word of God then God will throw me into hell fire after I died where I would suffer forever. These were the people on whom I relied to tell me the truth, and I was afraid not to believe them.

If I had not been taught that about the Bible I am sure that I would have chosen to live out my life as an agnostic, rather than put my trust in a book that taught that there is a god who is going to sustain people alive in an inescapable state of suffering forever.

I think that probably most of the agnosticism in this world is caused by people choosing to live out their lives as agnostics, rather than put their trust in a book that teaches such a god as the ETers (eternal tomentors) claim to love and worship.

Many agnostics are decent people who try their best to be as good as they can be simply because they want to treat other people with love and respect, the same way that they would like to be treated too. But they would rather live out their life and die in the hope that they will find out that God is not like the eternal tormentors claim He is.

This has become my attitude too. Were it not for the fact that I have discovered evidence that the Bible does not teach an ET god, then I too would rather live out my life as an agnostic and hope for the best after I die, rather than pretend to love and respect an eternal hell god.

When I was seven my stepmother lit a fire in a beaker and said to me, "If you don't open your heart's door to Jesus and invite Him in, God is going to put you into a fire much bigger and hotter than that after you die and He will never ever let you get out of it.”

So in my heart I prayed the way she said that I had to.

Awhile later she said it's obvious that you still are not saved because you are still such a bad boy.

At that point in time I felt totally hopeless, and I was sure that God had given up on me.

My Dad used to beat me with a bamboo cane repeatedly shouting "In Jesus Name, in Jesus Name," until on one occasion the welts on my legs bled. He told me that it was easy to tell at an early age that I was going to go to hell.

Then they both sent me away to a foster home because they could no longer cope with my bad behaviour. My real mother had died giving birth to me. My Dad's second wife had died at child birth too but the child did not live either.

So at the age of seven I became convinced that everyone had given up on me, including God.

Later, at the age of 28 (I'm 78 now) I began a twelve year nervous breakdown over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever. I was only able to recover by learning that there are no verses in the Bible that teach endless suffering in hell for anyone. See
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
Bible Threatenings Explained
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html

THE POSITIVE SIDE OF MY TESTIMONY

Now I’m a Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.

Before you brush off my assertion by saying “there is no such a thing,” think about the following.

MY TRIBUTE TO RAY PRINZING
Ray Prinzing is my hero and mentor.
His many writings can be Googled up and read online.
Just type in Ray Prinzing.

During my twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) caused by my inability to emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever in hell, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes and before I went to sleep I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.

I have listened to 178 of them once, and 23 of them several times.
In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH and gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.

Ray Prinzing is that hero to me.

For several years my 104 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.

As I listened to Ray’s tapes during my nervous breakdown (1966-78) I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. (I’m 78 years old now)

My panic attacks completely stopped.

And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me.

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!

J. Preston Eby was a good friend of Ray Prinzing. They frequently quoted each other in their writings. Read what J. Preston Eby wrote about this subject. Copy and paste into Google
WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER? or click on
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

The entire series of sixteen chapters by J. Preston Eby on this subject can be accessed at
Savior of the World Series
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

His writing specifically on universal transformation is at
The Restitution of All Things
http://www.godfire.net/eby/restitution.html
SEE ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST PARAGRAPH IN THAT ARTICLE

Like I said before, if I truly believed the Bible teaches eternal hell, I probably would choose to live out my life as an agnostic, hoping to find out after I die that God is not really like that. I would live my life trying to treat other people the way I would like to be treated by them and hope for the best after I die.

I think the doctrine of endless hell is probably the primary reason why many decent people choose agnosticism or atheism rather than Christianity. Like President Abraham Lincoln said to the eternal-hell evangelist, "Your god is my devil."

A TRIBUTE TO SEVERAL OF MY SPECIAL FRIENDS

Fortunately for me I learned there are people like Ray Prinzing (my earthly hero and mentor), and Ray's friend J. Preston Eby, and another friend of both of them, Canadian, George Hawtin, who see an infinitely different God in the Bible. The writings of all three of these men can be Googled up on the internet.

IMO people like Ray and Preston and George know the real Jesus.
KNOWING THE REAL JESUS
http://www.godfire.net/eby/godislove.html

Here's another testimony (by Charles Slagle) that was a huge help to me because the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown were the same as mine.
Copy and paste the links into your browser.

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.richardwaynegarganta.com/4Vi ... vation.htm
or
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

The second link is his own personal website.
I am very happy to report that mostly due to the influence of the audio tapes and writings of Ray Prinzing, both of my parents changed their thinking later in life.

The theme of universal salvation is prominent in all of Ray’s writings, but his book
REDEMPTION ALL IN ALL is especially good
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby DaveB » Sun May 28, 2017 7:12 am

Thank you, Rodger. Very encouraging.
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sun May 28, 2017 6:37 pm

My pleasure Dave :-)

THE BLACKEST OF ALL BACKGROUNDS
As some of you know, I, Rodger Tutt, had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78, I’m 78 now) over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God would let anyone suffer forever.

By listening to many audio tapes by Ray Prinzing (my earthly hero and mentor) over that period of time, I was able to gradually recover. All of Ray Prinzing’s writings can be accessed by typing his name into Google. There are several Google pages of links about him.

Millions of Muslims believe that non Muslims are going to suffer forever in hell.
Quote from
Islamic Beliefs about the Afterlife
“Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell, but non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally.”

And, as most people already know, millions of Christians believe that non-Christians are going to suffer forever in hell.

The way that I emotionally cope with (i.e. stop myself from going crazy again) because of the existence of ETers (i.e. believers in eternal torment), is to perceive ETers as God’s vessels of grossest dishonour -- a necessary foil of contrast in the guise of truth – a part of the blackest of backgrounds, upon which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation using the paint brushes of His undefeatable grace and His love that never fails.

The marred vessels (i.e. ETers), never leave the Potter’s hands, (they are marred in the Potter’s hands), and neither will anyone leave the Potters hands. After our resurrection from the dead, all ETers will be refashioned, and transformed into vessels of honour, and it will be plain for all to see that it was better that ETers were vessels of dishonour for a long as they were (Jeremiah chapter 18).

One of the dishonourable characteristics of ETers is that they have no desire whatsoever to check out the reasons why URs (i.e. universal reconciliationists) believe that a literally translated, (not interpretively) translated Bible, actually teaches universal salvation.

But it may be that a silent member, or surfer, or lurker on this forum might be motivated enough to check us out and decide if the conclusions of URs have any merit.

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

No doubt, many ETers will say that they have examined the evidence of the URs and have rejected it as being false. That, of course is to be expected of those for whom God has chosen to temporarily be a marred vessel. At least, that is the way I see it.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Mon May 29, 2017 6:40 pm

THE BONDAGE OF THE WILL

In the conclusion of his book THE BONDAGE OF THE WILL Martin Luther wrote
there can be no "Free-will"—in man,—in angel,—or in any creature!
http://www.truecovenanter.com/trueluthe ... r_bow.html

Here is a helpful article on the subject.
MAN IS NOT A FREE MORAL AGENT
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html
rodgertutt
 
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Tue May 30, 2017 11:34 pm

THE CIRCUMCISION EVANGEL VERSUS THE UNCIRCUMCISION EVANGEL
Bob Evely

As to the “why’s” of God’s plan; we can only speculate. The fact is that no man is deserving of grace, and God’s method is to begin with a group He has called (the body of Christ) to display His grace to the remainder of humanity and to proclaim the evangel … all toward the end that grace and salvation is realized by all.

As for the words of Jesus, we must remember these pertain to the kingdom to come upon the earth … the restoration of Israel’s kingdom. In many of Jesus’ words we see that the “rules” are very works-based. But later came a more full expression of grace, when God had demonstrated that NONE could earn righteousness thru works … and with the “new rules” that Paul subsequently talked about, it is all grace and no works to boast of.

When Paul talks about the fact that some, based on behavior, would not enter the kingdom … He is telling his audience that as it pertains to the earthly kingdom, these folks would be excluded. He says this to instill within them the idea that as a result of God’s grace, they too should avoid these behaviors. The main difference in evangel’s is that the Circumcision evangel told folks … have faith and works. Paul’s Uncircumcision evangel is simply have faith, as God has accomplished what man could not. We must remember that as we read various parts of the Scriptures that mankind is a work in progress. When we read of God’s anger, or folks being excluded from the earthly kingdom, etc. … this is a part of the process, thru which God is working toward His ultimate, eventual goal … the salvation and reconciliation of all.

When folks tend to ask questions about specific objections, always try to get them to first look at the basic overall plan that God has in store for mankind. In other words, we must consider the Bible in total first to see how God is working in all ages … and then we can worry about the specific questions. To jump into the questions too quickly takes the focus off of God’s revelation in total.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Wed May 31, 2017 11:02 pm

THE ABSURDITY OF “FREE” WILL

AN EXCELLENT SHORT WRITING BY MARTIN ZENDER

"THE FLY IN THE JAR"

http://www.martinzender.com/ZWTF/ZWTF2.1.pdf

Copy and paste the link into your browser if it won’t click open.
Then give it time to open up. It’s worth the wait. :-)
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:13 pm

THE GRAND ASSERTION – Don Hicks

ALL OF MANKIND WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST AND ALL OF MANKIND WILL COME TO BELIEVE IN JESUS AS LORD AND GOD AS SAVIOR FOLLOWING THE NECESSARY DISCIPLINE OF THE CONSUMING PURIFYING FIRE OF GOD.

Mal 3:2b "For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap;”

SUB-ASSERTION #1

MANKIND WAS DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST HAVING BEEN RECONCILED TO GOD BY HIS DEATH

Rom 5:6-10 “For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died
for the ungodly. But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while
we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, because we have
now been declared righteous by his blood, we will be saved through him from
God's wrath. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God
through the death of his Son, how much more, since we have been reconciled,
will we be saved by his life?

Note that a summary of these verses could be the following:
While we were helpless ungodly sinners who were His enemies, Christ died
for us, declared us righteous by his blood, will save us from God’s wrath,
and reconciled us to God through His death.

Helpless ungodly sinners who were enemies of God and Christ may be words
written to those of Rome who were currently believers, but here Paul is
obviously referencing their status with God prior to their becoming
believers. Therefore the being reconciled to God and declared righteous
occurred prior to belief since these descriptions are hardly of believers.

At the foot of the cross were many helpless ungodly sinners who were the
enemies of Jesus, yet He said, “Father forgive them for they don’t know
what they are doing”. I believe the Father was in agreement with this
prayer of Jesus and so their sins were or will be forgiven on the merits of
Jesus alone. Mankind was declared righteous, or justified on that day.
Paul reinforces the fact of being declared righteous was for all mankind a
few verses later in Rom 5:18, “Consequently, just as one offense resulted
in condemnation for everyone, so one act of righteousness results in
justification and life for everyone.”

SUB-ASSERTION #2

NO “PUNISHMENT”, “DESTRUCTION”, “PERISHING”, “LOSTNESS” IS ETERNAL; RATHER GOD’S “PUNISHMENTS” OR “DESTRUCTION” ARE CORRECTIVE IN NATURE

Now, we do need His discipline to make us fit for His kingdom. This
discipline will not be “eternal”, but it will be “aeonian or eonian”, the
English equivalents of the Greek “aionios”. “Aeonian” punishment as
referred to in Mt. 25:46, one of the proof texts for those who hold to the
heresy of the eternal torment of non-believers, is the type of correction
that God will administer to the unbeliever. The noun being modified by
aeonian is the word punishment, which is the Greek “kolasis” which has been
used in reference to “pruning” a plant for the purpose of better
production. “Kolasis” punishment is the corrective type, whereas, “timoria”
punishment is the retributive type. The “aeonian” life in Mt. 25:46 is the
life given to the believer by God beginning at the point of belief. This
is that life we enjoy as believers which blesses us now as we deal with
this physical life and also blesses us with the promise of immortality and
therefore everlasting communion with our Father.

Aeonian destruction as referenced in 2 Thess. 1:7-9, “…who will be punished
with aeonian destruction from the presence of the Lord,…”, is the kind of
destruction necessary for God to administer for the fulfillment of His
purposes. Destruction is equivalent to death in that it is “from the
presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power”. Jesus was
“destroyed” at the cross, but as in His case, so with all cases of
destruction or death, there is no sense of “eternal” associated with them
as Jesus rose to life and “the last enemy to be eliminated will be death”.

The “lost” sheep, coin, and son of Luke 15 referred to a condition that did
not last forever. The word “lost” is the translation of the Greek
“apollumi”, from which we have the translations lose, lost, perish,
destroy, etc. As we can see in Luke 15, the sheep, coin, and son were only
“lost” until they were found. This harmonizes with the fact that Jesus
said He came to “seek and save the lost”.

Note that the following verse tells us that there is a special benefit for
becoming a believer now, but that God will save all of the “lost”
unbelievers also. 1Tim 4:10 “For to this end we toil and strive, because
we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men,
especially of those who believe.” The Greek word that got translated
“especially” here is “malista”. Checking its usage in other verses makes
it clear that especially is a good choice for English since it does refer
to extra special attention to something, but not to the exclusion of other
items mentioned in the context.

The Hebrew word “olam” has as its Greek equivalents “aion” and “aionios” in
the Septuagint. An analysis of the approximately 440 occurrences of olam
in the Old Testament suggests that it means a period of time without the
end in sight but not necessarily “eternal”, or “everlasting” or “forever”,
if it should ever be. Olam was only 3 days in the case of Jonah’s duration
in the fish, even though the “traditional” translation has been “forever”.
Also, the length of time a person would be the slave has been referred to
as “forever”, which we know is literally only for their physical lifetime.
Some versions never use eternal, everlasting, or forever for olam. Have
you noticed some versions use the phrase “forever and ever”. Have you ever
given thought to the absurdity of adding the words “and ever” after you
have already said forever? What’s more than forever? That’s like saying
something lasts for an eternity and then for another eternity. The
absurdity of this should add to our awareness of the bias of those
translators who consistently translate olam, aion, and aionios as eternal,
everlasting, forever, or the absurd “forever and ever” phrase.

An analysis of the word “hell” is quite revealing. Jesus used the word
“geena” or “hades” and tradition (KJV, Catholic church, etc.) has had the
ignorant audacity to use this Anglo-Saxon word “hell”, which means
“unseen” (a-des), corresponding to the Hebrew “sheol” and attach to it a
meaning out of pagan mythology of a place of eternal torment. Dr. Thomas
Thayer in his book “The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless
Punishment” traces this myth of eternal torment that became associated with
the word hell to ancient Egypt. Geena (sometimes Gehenna) was the Valley
of Hinnom which became a garbage dump on the outskirts of Jerusalem where
carcasses of criminals were burned which Jesus metaphorically referenced as
a future potential punishment with no sense of “eternal” punishment
inherent in its meaning. This refers to aeonian punishment which again is
God’s corrective punishment. Gehenna should have been left untranslated
because it is a geographical location that the Jews of Jesus’ audience knew
exactly what he was referring to. Hades should have also been left
untranslated or translated as “unseen” or “the grave” as some versions do,
as Hades definitely has no inherent punishment connotation. There are a
number of versions that don’t use the word “hell” even once, realizing the
bad rap the word has gotten with the erroneous connotation.

SUB-ASSERTION #3

ALL HUMANITY WILL COME TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND WILL WORSHIP HIM SOONER OR LATER

The following are 5 witnesses (scriptures) from 4 of God’s servants: DAVID,
ISAIAH, PAUL, and JOHN.

NOTE: Nowhere in the Word do we have any evidence that one must come to
belief in this lifetime, which is another myth of man; contrariwise, we
have much evidence in the following verses and many others that some will
only come to belief after their physical death. At this point some might
think of the Rich Man and Lazarus parable, Matt. 13:34. Parables must be discerned
spiritually as they are not to be taken literally since they are fictional
stories to convey a spiritual message. Consider this, Rich Man = Jews and
Lazarus = Gentiles and the spiritual message is that the Jews will be
disciplined for their attitude toward and treatment of the Gentiles.

Keep in mind that belief is granted by God in His time not in man’s. God
grants belief to some in this lifetime and others after their physical
death. The myth that one must come to belief in this lifetime is something
man dreamed up or more than likely got from the pagans and added to his
traditions, but God’s word does not speak of it.

John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him;
and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Phi 1:29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you
should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,”

THE MASTER PLAN OF THE MASTER COULD BE SUMMED UP IN A COMPREHENSIVE SUMMARY OF HIS WORD AS FOLLOWS AS ATTESTED BY MANY WITNESSES.

“ALL IS OUT OF ME AND ALL WILL COME BACK TO ME.” --- GOD

Rom 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him
be glory forever. Amen.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will
also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that
God may be all in all.

GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL = GOD WILL BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE

OUR SPIRIT CAME OUT OF GOD AND WILL RETURN TO GOD

DAVID was inspired to write:

Psalms 22:27-28 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the
LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. For
the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations

ISAIAH was inspired to write:

Isa 45:23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in
righteousness a word that shall not return: 'To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear allegiance.'
Isa 45:24 "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and
strength; to him shall come and be ashamed all who were incensed against
him.

PAUL was inspired to write:

Phi 2:10-11 “…so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow
— in heaven and on earth and under the earth — and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

Rom 14:11 For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee will
bow to me, and every tongue will give praise to God."

JOHN was inspired to record:

Rev 5:13 “And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the
earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, "To him who sits on
the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might
for the ages of the ages!"

SINCE AFTER A CERTAIN TIME DEATH WILL CEASE TO BE, LEAVING ONLY LIFE AND HENCE NO MORE SEPARATION BETWEEN GOD AND MAN, ALL OF THESE WITNESSES CAN TESTIFY TO THE SAME THING:

NOTE: The feeble attempt to downplay this worshipping, bowing, and
confessing as somehow “forced”, is born out of bias for eternal torment.
Note particularly in Phil. 2:11 the phrase “to the glory of God the
Father”. It is obviously not giving God glory to say Jesus is Lord without
meaning it and you might also recall what Paul said about saying that Jesus
is Lord, that “…no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.”
(1 Cor. 12:3b)

EVERY CREATED BEING WILL SOME DAY PRAISE AND GLORIFY GOD
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:42 pm

THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
“The main point which we seek to impress upon our readers is to accept God’s declaration that, for those who are judged before the great white throne, the lake of fire is the second death, not a second lifetime.

While the ‘injury’ (literal translation) sustained by those who are cast into the lake if fire (in Revelation 20:14,15) will be fatal (since to these the lake of fire is the second death), it will not be permanent. We may be certain that this is the case, for, at the consummation, death will be abolished and all will be vivified, that God may be All in all. God is the Saviour of all mankind, and this includes all who enter the second death.

EVENTUALLY EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED

Everyone who is cast into the lake of fire which is the second death will be saved out of it including all who were not in the Lamb’s book of Life.

“Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire taught in the scriptures?

The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death (Rev.20:14; 21:8). In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).
It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the fifteenth chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
It is also apparent from Col. 1:15-20 that the lake of fire is not the end of God's plan for those cast into the fire. See also Ro. 5:18, 19
James Coram.

Note God’s wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:10 am

Sooner or later everyone will be saved.
A COMMON ARGUMENT ADDRESSED

Until the time of Augustine most Christians believed in the salvation of everyone.

Dr. Edwin Abbott, headmaster of the City of London School, wrote in his Cambridge Sermons -
QUOTE: "An argument was introduced by Augustine, and since his day incessantly repeated, that if aionios kolasis does not mean "endless punishment," then there is no security for the believer that aionios zoe means "endless life," and that he will enjoy the promise of endless happiness. But Matt. 25:46 shows the "eonian chastisement" and "eonian life" are of the same duration-lasting during the eons, and when the eons end, as Scripture states they will (1 Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26), the time called "eonian" is past and the life called "eonian" is finished, but life continues beyond the eons, as Paul teaches at 1 Cor. 15:26: "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (which must refer to the lake of fire which is the second death, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). That is, the last, the final one in order. How will it be destroyed? First Corinthians 15:22 gives the answer: "For as IN ADAM ALL are dying, even so IN CHRIST ALL shall be made alive. ." Death is destroyed when ALL have been made alive, IN CHRIST."
-- Dr. Edwin Abbott

Response to Joseph Prince

Note God’s wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJkBMNlvmZ0

Also see http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Allinadam.html

THE AGES COLLECTIVELY COME TO AN END WITH EVERYONE SAVED

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:08 pm

THE MANY

Some ask, Why does it say "the many" instead of "all" in Roman 5:19?

This is because the one disobedient man (Adam), and the One righteous Man (Christ) are put in a class by themselves. They are in contrast with "the many."

We may put it as follows:
The one disobedient man plus "the many" equals all mankind made sinners.
The One obedient Man plus "the many" equals all mankind made righteous.

That "the one" plus "the many" made sinners includes all mankind no one will deny.

Even so, "the One" plus "the many" made righteous is all-inclusive and guarantees the salvation of all mankind.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:21 pm

The meaning of words that have been translated as “eternal”, “forever”, “incurable” in the scriptures

Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"
Ez. 16:53-55).

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).

The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superseded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).

Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.

The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).

God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah
"forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large
fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);

Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer.
25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of
Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam"
(Jer. 49:39).

"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord
"will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).

Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).

So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until--
His church confiscates the "strong man's" booty,
setting the captives free so God becomes all in all
(Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor.
15:24-28).

The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us
that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever"
(Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:40 pm

THE MILLENNIAL AGE
A snippet from THE MILLENNIAL AGE
We have seen that the Millennial age with all its glory is filled with judgment and with an iron rule; and that notwithstanding its unspeakable blessings and Israel's preeminence, it is far from a perfect state. It can not be the final age. The final age must come with the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness."

THE MILLENIAL AGE
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/is_hell_ ... l_age.html
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:21 pm

SOMETHING TO PONDER

THE NEW BIRTH CONTRASTED WITH THE NEW CREATION

http://concordant.org/expositions/human ... -creation/
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:20 pm

The “Offer” – Kenneth Larsen

Imagine this scenario. An automobile manufacturer builds a vehicle
model which it hopes will become a great success. During testing,
however, it becomes apparent that the car suffers from a severe design
flaw and would pose an imminent danger to the public were it released
for sale. Instead of correcting the flaw, the manufacturer decides it
has a better idea; it mentions the flaw on page 122 of the owner’s
manual and explains there how the owner can have the defect corrected
at the nearest dealership “free of charge”.

Does it appear rather lopsided that the vehicle is sold to
unsuspecting customers with little if any mention of the design
defect? Does it appear rather absurd that the responsibility for
discovering the dangerous defect and having it corrected falls upon
the buyer, when the builder could have fixed the problem before taking
the car to market?

Imagine this scenario. Because of the sin of our forefather, Adam, we
all inherit sin and mortality. None of us are tested as he was, in
order to see if we will be a righteous person or a sinner; we are all
given mortality. Our choices have nothing to do with our present
condition as sinners; we are born that way.
As for salvation from sin and death, that will depend on finding the
proper message and acting on it in an effective manner; otherwise the
condition we inherit at birth will be our everlasting downfall.

Does it appear rather lopsided that the condemnation is universal and
our choice has nothing to do with it, but our salvation from that
condemnation requires our active participation? Does it appear rather
absurd that the responsibility for obtaining salvation depends, in the
final analysis, upon each individual, while we are in no way
responsibe for our needing that salvation in the first place? Doesn’t
it seem strange that perdition is an inherited condition, while
salvation is only an “offer” made to those fortunate enough to stumble
upon it?

Fact is, salvation is not an offer we happen upon; it’s a gift. And a
Savior is One Who saves. In 1 Timothy 4:9-11, we read, “Faithful is
the saying and worthy of all welcome (for for this are we toiling and
being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour
of all mankind, especially of believers. These things be charging and
teaching.” God is the Savior of all mankind, for salvation is the
destiny of all. 1 Cor. 15:20-28; 1 Tim. 4:10; Jn. 12:32; Col. 1:20;
Eph. 1:10; Ro. 5:18, 19; Phil. 2:9-11. God is the Savior of believers
especially because He prefers some from the beginning for salvation
now and during the eons of the eons (2 Thes. 2:13; Rev. 20:4, 5).
Others are vessels of indignation, as indicated in Romans 9, and will
not be saved until the consummation mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:24.
Salvation is not an “offer”; God enlightens all, at the time He
chooses. John 1:9-13.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:24 pm

A snippet from THE PRESENCE – Walter Lanyon

Do you feel the' Presence and understand what it is to recognize for a moment that nothing----no, not anything -----is to be destroyed, but everything is to be fulfilled with the Love of God which only has to be recognized to change the imagination and shatter the belief that held it into its outline of ugliness?

Formerly we went out to battle with the thing called evil ----now we have reduced it to the vacuum of belief in the absence of God. No matter how rampant it may be, and how destructive in its manifestation, or how terrible in its dimensions----it is in the final analysis the absence of God, and this absence of God can only exist in the imagination, for God is omnipresent.

"I come not to destroy but to fulfill" will thrill you and relieve you of all the hateful warfare with evil that has been going on------it will bring you to a true understanding of the non-resistance of the Christ Mind within you and make you understand the height and depth and majesty of this Presence.

It is wonderful-----it is glorious------it causes the Hosannas to rise from the very centre
of your being and magnify the Lord of Lords and Host of Hosts.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:21 pm

THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD

"This is, indeed, the Christ, the Savior of the world." John 4:42

First, Christ died for all mankind. Under this proposition consider
the language recorded in the nineteenth chapter of the Gospel of Luke,
tenth verse:
"For the son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."
John 4:34:—"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him
that sent me, and to finish his work." Hebrews 2:9:—"He tasted death
for every man."

Secondly, under this proposition, Jesus Christ was endowed and
possessed power to do everything that he undertook to do:
John 17:2:—"As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he
should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." Matthew
28:18:—"And Jesus came and spake unto them saying, All power is given
unto me in heaven and in earth."
Thus, he came to save all, has sufficient power to save all, and,
thirdly, he will succeed in saving all, which I demonstrate from
Isaiah 53:10-11:
"The pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of
the travail of his soul, and be SATISFIED."
Now, …inasmuch as Jesus came to accomplish the salvation of the entire
human family, he never would be satisfied if he were defeated. If any
of you undertake an enterprise, and get beaten, you never can say you
are satisfied. Our Lord is to "see of the travail of his soul, and be
satisfied." Inasmuch as he came for the purpose of accomplishing
universal redemption, it is demonstrated that he will succeed, because
he will ultimately be satisfied.
The apostle John says:—"The Father loveth the son, and hath given all
things into his hand." In John 4:42:—"This is, indeed, the Christ, the
Savior of the world."
- JOHN WESLEY HANSON, 1879
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:22 am

THE SECOND DEATH

THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM
“The main point which we seek to impress upon our readers is to accept God’s declaration that, for those who are judged before the great white throne, the lake of fire is the second death, not a second lifetime.

While the ‘injury’ (literal translation) sustained by those who are cast into the lake if fire (in Revelation 20:14,15) will be fatal (since to these the lake of fire is the second death), it will not be permanent. We may be certain that this is the case, for, at the consummation, death will be abolished and all will be vivified, that God may be All in all. God is the Saviour of all mankind, and this includes all who enter the second death.”
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:21 pm

My collection of random thoughts on the human will.
There is some repetition for emphasis.

THERE IS NO “CHANCE” THAT WE CAN CHOOSE ANYTHING ELSE
Our choices are not made because we had a “chance” to make, or not to make them.

I think of myself as a theistic determinist. I believe that everything HAS to happen the way that it does, including all of our attempts to assist, or prevent it from happening.
Theologically this is called God’s decretive will, or that which MUST occur, in contrast to God’s preceptive will, which is what His creatures OUGHT to do, e.g. THE GOLDEN RULE, and choosing Jesus Christ.

The kind of fatalism that I reject is the kind that says that things happen no matter what we do.

The truth is that things happen because of what we do, even though what we choose to do is caused by the reasons why we want to choose a certain choice the MOST instead of a different choice at any give point in time.

A few seconds before, we might not have wanted it the MOST.
A few seconds later, we might not have wanted it the MOST.
It may even be true that most of the time we would have wanted to choose something else the MOST.
But at that point in time when we actually make a choice, it's because we want it the MOST, and, at that point in time there is no “chance” that we could have chosen anything else.

As a theistic determinist I believe that nothing happens by “chance” and that God intends to eventually transform all evil and suffering into something better for everyone, than had it not occurred. That includes the unexplained and seemingly unjustifiable suffering that we all experience in varying degrees, as well as kolasis aionion (age during corrective chastisement) that everyone who needs it will experience. Then, when the existence of evil and suffering has served God’s purpose, He will eradicate both of them from our existence.
THE PURPOSE OF EVIL by A.P. Adams is good on this subject!
http://thegloryrd.com/apadams/evil.html

As far as salvation is concerned I don’t believe it happens because we are given a “chance.”

As a universalist I believe the Bible teaches that the first fruits of election, the remnant chosen by grace out of each generation, will be saved first. Then all of the non-elect will be saved later.

The following two links are good on this subject.
REDEMPTION IN TWO PARTS
God's Plan Of The Ages; The Purpose Of God In This Age; Redemption In Two Parts; As In Adam - So In Christ; Every Man In His Own Order; All Things In Subjection; God All In All
http://www.godfire.net/eby/allinall.html
and
GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
The eons of the Bible with Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

I believe that God will eventually fit every individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

The idea that it wouldn't be "right" for God to hold us accountable if we cannot help but choose what we do is an ethical opinion that is rendered irrelevant by the fact that we always, without exception, choose what our reasonings tell us is the choice that we prefer the MOST at any given point in time.

The one thing we have in common with robots is causality.
Everything we do is the product of a cause, that cause being the reasons why we prefer one choice the MOST, instead of a different choice.

The fact that you chose it proves that you preferred it at least slightly more than some other choice, or you would not have chosen it.

Your reasons for choosing what you choose are the cause of your making any choice. It is not possible to make a different choice from what your combined reasonings motivate you to prefer the MOST at any point in time.

Nothing God does is "meaningless." When we look back from the consummation of God's plan for the ages of time, everyone will agree that it was better for everyone that everything happened the way that it did.

It is not even possible to choose any differently (after due deliberation or instantly) than the combined reasonings persuade us to prefer that choice the MOST at that particular moment in time, so much so that we actually do choose it.

In other words, the only "free" will we have is to choose what our combined reasonings persuade us in the choice that we prefer the MOST at that particular point in time. It is not even possible that any other choice could have been made than that one.

It is not even possible to not choose what that reason persuades us is the choice we want to make the MOST at any particular moment in time.

A man devises his ways by using all the info at his disposal.
The end result will be the only "way" he could have devised.
Considering all combined influences in devising that particular way, there simply was no other way that he could have devised at that particular point in time.
We will work out our salvation in response to the combined influences that cause us to work it out in a particular way, the only way that we could possibly work it out. No other way could even be possible.

We are individuals who always, without exception, choose what our combined reasonings persuade us is the choice that we prefer the MOST. The fact that we actually choose it proves that we prefer it the MOST.
No other choice is even possible.

The one thing we have in common with robots is causality.
In the case of humans the cause is the combined reasonings why we prefer one choice the MOST instead of a different one.

It is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer MOST.

The fact that we choose it proves that we preferred it MOST even though there may have been other influences that were almost just as strong. For example, try to believe differently than you do right now. You can't can you? And you won't be able to until/unless stronger influences CAUSE you to do so.

During the act of making a choice, it is not even possible to refuse to choose whatever is having the strongest combination of influences on our mind to choose. The REASONS that we choose "something" over "something else" are the CAUSES of our choice.

If we insist that our will is so "free" that it was not caused to choose, we are saying that there were no reasons that we chose what we chose. That would mean that we had to have chosen randomly (e.g. flipping a coin), i.e. not based on any reason, or combination of reasons.

In either case, a caused choice, or a random choice, could not have been prevented. The choice that was made was the only choice that could have been made at that point in time.

Our not wanting to reap the consequences becomes part of the reasoning process that causes us to choose to change our ways. The "not wanting" becomes so strong that it is no longer possible to choose to reap the consequences.

The combined influence of internal preference, i.e. finally deciding what we want MOST after due deliberation, or not, plus external persuasive considerations will CAUSE all choices to occur.

The exact same set of influences in the exact same situation (if that were even possible) would always produce the exact same choice in the exact same person at that particular point in time.

That is why it is not even possible to choose differently than we do at any given point in time.

The idea that it is wrong for God to hold us accountable for choices that we cannot help making is an ethical opinion that is rendered irrelevant by the fact that we always, without exception, choose what our reasonings tell us is what we want to choose the MOST.

Like I said before, I believe that God will eventually fit every individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

That is why I call myself a theistic determinist.

I believe that God will eventually fit every individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

I’m convinced that after we have thought the very best thoughts about God, we can be sure that He is even better than that because He is able to do above what we can even think, Ephesians 3:20. And IMHO I cannot think any higher thoughts than universal transformation.

I believe that after our resurrection from the dead God will eventually somehow transform every second of everyone's suffering into something better that it happened.

That includes both the unexplained and seemingly unjustifiable suffering that we all experience in varying degrees, as well as what the Bible calls "kolasis aionion" which means age-during corrective chastisement that everyone who needs it will experience.

Scripturally or otherwise, it has, and always will be true, that we always, without exception, choose what our combined reasonings and feelings tell us is the choice that we prefer the MOST at any given point in time.

The fact that we choose some certain thing instead of something else, proves that we preferred that certain thing the MOST, even though we may try to claim that we really preferred something else the most.

I agree with Albert Einstein, who said, “I do not at all believe in human freedom in the [popular] philosophical sense. Everybody acts not only from external compulsion but also in accordance with inner necessity. A man’s actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that he cannot be responsible [i.e., able to act otherwise], any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motion it undergoes."

Albert Einstein, IDEAS AND OPINIONS, pp.8,39; New York: Crown Publishers, 1954

Instead of God being a "gentleman," I worship a God Who will, sooner or later, successfully influence the will of every fallen creature for their own good, so they will WANT what He wants for them, which does not include sustaining them alive in an inescapable state of everlasting suffering or annihilating them.

I call myself a theistic determinist because I believe in a God Who has decided that the fate of every fallen creature will be salvation from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

As Martin Zender puts it
“We all have wills, they are just not free.

Then why do we even exist, we might ask? Why do our wills exist? Is God playing chess with Himself? Why does He even need us? Why does He bother letting us think that we’re free?

I think it is in this perceived realm of freedom that we live and learn. God has given us the gift of NOT FEELING HIS CONTROL, and it is this gift that allows us to struggle with decisions, suffer for mistakes, and revel in the overcoming of obstacles.

It is this gift that allows us to turn to Him with tears both of sorrow and of joy.

I think the idea is to bring us in humble adoration to His feet. If it takes a sovereign God to assure that we come to this blessed place, then let’s let Him be sovereign—at the same time reveling in our perceived (but not actual) freedom.” (end quote)

I think that negative experiences work into us the motivation to choose differently in the future.

The apostle Paul's frustration was that, regretfully, he sometimes preferred sinning. The fact that he actually chose sinning demonstrated that, at least momentarily, he preferred it, or he would not have chosen it. It is what we actually do that demonstrates our true preference. We can say we don't prefer it, but our actions speak louder than words.

Sometimes Paul's sinful nature was the strongest influence in his life.
Romans 7:14-25 makes it plain that in no way was Paul’s will “free.”

But the Spirit of God taught Paul through experiences that in those times that “the sin that dwelt within him” (v20) preferred sinning; he could then reach out to Jesus for rescue. This God-taught attitude gradually, and no doubt reflexively, became the strongest influence on Paul’s will in his war with his sinful nature.

I found it helpful what Ray Prinzing said.
“Don’t accept condemnation for not being able to “work out” what God has not yet worked into you.”

Without exception, every person comes to the point of actually choosing what the combination of their reasonings and feelings tell them they prefer the MOST. When that choice has been decided upon, it is impossible to avoid making that particular choice at that split second in time.

In other words, when it comes down to actually making a choice, either after due deliberation, or instantly, we will always choose what we have decided that we prefer the MOST.

Here's the way that James Coram puts it.
"In any certain moment, either we have a given preference (and consequently effect a corresponding choice and action) or we do not. We cannot have a new preference while our old preference still exists. Nor can we make a new choice while we still have an old preference. For the act of choosing is merely the exercise of existing preference.”

The commitment of Jesus to do the will of His Father far outweighed His desire to escape the suffering He saw ahead of Him.

He definitely made the choice that He preferred the MOST.

In fact, that is the only choice that any of us can make, i.e. the choice that we prefer the MOST.

Everyone will ALWAYS choose what they both prefer and desire the MOST.

Here's the way that James Coram puts it.
"In any certain moment, either we have a given preference (and consequently effect a corresponding choice and action) or we do not. We cannot have a new preference while our old preference still exists. Nor can we make a new choice while we still have an old preference. For the act of choosing is merely the exercise of existing preference.

Albert Einstein put it this way “I do not at all believe in human freedom in the [popular] philosophical sense. Everybody acts not only from external compulsion but also in accordance with inner necessity. A man’s actions are determined by necessity, external and internal, so that he cannot be responsible [i.e., able to act otherwise], any more than an inanimate object is responsible for the motion it undergoes."

My own quote.
"After due deliberation we always make the choice that our combined reasonings and feelings (i.e. preferences and desires) convince us is the choice that we prefer and desire the MOST.
The fact that we choose it demonstrates that we prefer and desire it the MOST, or we would have made some other choice instead."

If we choose "the tough thing" it is ONLY because we prefer that choice.
Our reasonings and feelings combine to influence us to prefer that choice the MOST instead of a choice that is not as "tough."

I'll try putting it a different way.
Everything has to happen the way that it does, including all of our attempts to assist, or prevent it from happening.

What we prefer MOST, and what we determine is the best course of action from the information available are one and the same thing.

I find it completely relaxing to go through life believing that I am controlled by the strings in God's loving hands!

We do share one thing in common with puppets, and that is causality.

Everything we do is the product of a cause.
And that cause is the combined reasonings and feelings that persuade us to prefer a certain choice the MOST instead of a different choice.

It is not even possible to choose what we do not prefer the MOST.

As a UR, I believe that God will eventually fit every individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

I believe that God's determination, within the wise counsel of His DECRETIVE will which is that which MUST occur, to eventually rid all of creation from suffering, will in every case, overcome the strongest will that is temporarily opposed to God's PRECEPTIVE will which is what His creatures OUGHT to do, e.g. THE GOLDEN RULE, and choosing Jesus Christ.

I believe the only mistake that I am probably making is in grossly underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve this universal transformation through what Christ accomplished for everyone by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of his cross.

That is the kind of God that I see in the Bible.

POST SCRIPT:

Limited free will is an oxymoron - a contradiction in terms.

Limited means constrained.
Free means without constraint.

WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED? – KENNETH BRIX
“That salvation is of man and HIS works is shared by many of us who are Christians. We’ve portrayed God as having done all He could do to save mankind more than 2000 years ago. So now, supposedly, it’s up to mankind to perform the remaining essential of exercising the good work of faith, or else suffer everlasting consequences.

We have looked upon salvation as a joint effort between man and God, and as primarily what WE do for Him. With this teaching MAN is exalted, self righteousness flourishes, and God is stripped of His sovereignty! But our salvation ‘is not of him that willeth’ (any decision we make of ourselves), ‘nor of him that runneth’ (any effort we put forth of ourselves), BUT OF GOD Who showeth mercy! (Romans 9:16)

Christ was prophesied to take away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29), so how then can a sinless world suffer everlasting punishment in the lake of fire?! How absurd! Christ is the Saviour of the world (Jn. 4:42; 1Jn. 4:14), and He will save it!"
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:21 pm

SOONER OR LATER GOD ALWAYS GETS WHAT HE WANTS
Information they probably won’t have you study in “ETERNAL PUNISHMENT” Bible schools.
Your teachers will probably declare the following information to be heresy, and they probably won’t have you study
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:35 pm

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:50 pm

If you have been devastated by spiritual abuse this online book is for you.
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.richardwaynegarganta.com/4Vi ... vation.htm
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:16 pm

RESPONSES TO SUPPOSED SCRIPTURE ARGUMENTS AGAINST UNIVERSAL SALVATION
“Passages of Scripture Sometimes Quoted to Prove Endless Punishment
Shown to Teach Consequences of Limited Duration, showing that Christian universalism,
or ultimate reconciliation is the true Biblical doctrine.”
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html

also see

THE SCHOLARS CORNER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSAL SALVATION
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:52 pm

RESPONSES TO PHILISOPHICAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST UNIVERSAL SALVATION

Good news of God's love for all mankind - find it here at Tentmaker
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html

Quick Find: Links to Information on Hell and Universal Salvation
http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:57 pm

Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches. I post on forums to give people an alternate point of view. Had I known that one existed I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 over my inability to love a god who would allow anyone actually prefer to suffer forever rather than eventually reach out for the salvation that God has provided. I'm 78 years old now.

THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT

The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve of
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY – G.T. Stevenson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/time/

Also see THE SCHOLAR’S CORNER FOR THE STUDY OF BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM at
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.

But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that is exactly what God is like.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:57 am

ON THE BASIS OF HAVING STUDIED THE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO YOU CHOOSE ONE
Choose to believe that the Bible teaches that God will sustain people alive in an inescapable state of eternal suffering.
Or
Choose to believe that God will annihilate (cause them to cease to exist) anyone who does not become a Christian before they die.
Or
Choose to believe what the following expositors reveal about what the Bible teaches.
Copy and paste into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html
Or
If you have been devastated by spiritual abuse this online book is for you.
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.richardwaynegarganta.com/4Vi ... vation.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute ... hrist.html
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm (the author, Charles Slagle’s personal website containing many other good writings about the subject)
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:40 am

CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html
Or
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
http://www.christianuniversalist.org
Or
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html
Or
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

I myself, along with many others with whom I am acquainted, simply cannot love a god who would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of eternal suffering (Arminian), or suffer forever just because they were born into the human race (Calvinist). Neither can we love a god who would snuff us out of existence just because we didn’t hear about Jesus before we died.

But we CAN love a God Who, because of His Son’s death and resurrection, through the power in the blood that He shed for us on His cross, will sooner or later save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved (including their stubborn wills). That’s the God that the above expositors see in the Bible. And that’s the God to Whom I joyously yield my heart in complete and total abandonment.
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:36 pm

WHAT I WISH I HAD KNOWN DURING MY YOUTH ---
How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown (1966-78) I’m 78 years old

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 78 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION,
THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

0. ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute ... hrist.html
1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tlchrist.info/filealin.htm
CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
4. THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
5. Information they probably won’t have you study in “ETERNAL PUNISHMENT” Bible schools. Your teachers will probably declare the following information to be heresy, and they probably won’t have you study
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... d/hell.htm
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
http://www.tentmaker.org/Bovee2.htm#Top
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Restitut ... nindex.htm
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/150reasons.html
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichMana ... ching.html
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA - Louis Abbott
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter16.html
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchie ... index.html
18. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jukes2.html
19. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – George Hawtin
http://www.godfire.net/restitutionHawtin.html
20. THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES – J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... /index.htm
ESPECIALLY THIS ONE IN THAT SERIES
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savio ... larity.htm
21. THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – A.P. Adams
http://thegloryrd.com:80/apadams/evil.html
22. TEN REASONS NOT TO BELIEVE THE TEACHING OF ETERNAL TORTURE - Thomas Kissinger
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_ ... l-torment/
23. IS HELL ETERNAL OR WILL GOD’S PLAN FAIL? – Charles Pridgeon
http://www.archive.org/stream/willgodsp ... 3/mode/2up
24. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL AND THE JUDGMENTS OF GOD – A.E. Knoch
http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/TheP ... index.html
25. GOD’S EONIAN PURPOSE – Adlai Loudy
http://www.secret-evangel.site90.net/Go ... pose00.htm
26. THE TRUE BASIS OF REDEMPTION – A.P. Adams
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TrueB ... Adams.html
27. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE - Dr. Loyal Hurley
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/outcome.html

THREE TREASURE HOUSES OF CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST ARTICLES
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/articles2.html
http://tgulcm.tripod.com/cu/univart.html
http://www.theherald...org/Library.htm
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:17 pm

TRANSLATIONS

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

Also see what other Greek scholars say about it
An Analytical Study of Words
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html
Chapter Eleven

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal."

1. Scarlett's New Testament written in 1792 has "aeonian punishment" in place to "everlasting punishment."
"And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life."

2. The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:
"And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life."

3. Young's Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."
Professor Young also compiled Young's Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

4. The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:
"And these last will go away 'into aeonian punishment,' but the righteous 'into aeonian life.'"

5. The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:
"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

6. The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:
"And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages."
Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as "life of the ages," "fire of the ages;" and in Rev. 14:6, "The good news of the ages." It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth's version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

7. The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal."
The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word "forever" which is the same word for "eternal" which says: "Literally, for the age.”

8. Clementson's The New Testament (1938) shows,
"And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life."

9. Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,
"And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life."
It should be noted that the "cutting-off" refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit. The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word "timoria."

10. The Concordant Version (1930):
"And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

11. The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:
"And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life."

12. Joseph Bryant Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,
"and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life."

13. The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976 has "age-abiding correction" instead of "everlasting punishment."

14. Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has "And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

15. Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King's translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.” The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

Also see what other Greek scholars say about it
An Analytical Study of Words
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html
Chapter Eleven
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:19 pm

THE UNFORGIVABLE SIN

Instead of being forgiven, the sinner will suffer the consequences.
But the consequenses are eonian, not eternal.

I found this link helpful.
http://concordant.org/expositions/human ... he-spirit/

The correct literal translation:
Mk 3: 28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the
sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies,
whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be
blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon,
but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin- (Concordant Literal
Translation)
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:28 am

THE EVENTUAL SAVING OF EVERYONE FROM EVERYTHING FROM WHICH THEY NEED TO BE SAVED

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

An excellent website expounding Christian Biblical Universal Salvation
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:39 pm

VERSIONS

Most Christian Bible schools do not preach the word of God.
The per-versions of the Bible that many Christians rely on are not the word of God.
Here are fifteen literal translations of the Bible that are the word of God.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."

Also see what other Greek scholars say about it
An Analytical Study of Words
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html
Chapter Eleven

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Up until the time of Augustine, most Christians believed in universal salvation.

Dr. Edwin Abbott, headmaster of the City of London School, wrote in his Cambridge Sermons -
QUOTE: "An argument was introduced by Augustine, and since his day incessantly repeated, that if aionios kolasis does not mean "endless punishment," then there is no security for the believer that aionios zoe means "endless life," and that he will enjoy the promise of endless happiness. But Matt. 25:46 shows the "eonian chastisement" and "eonian life" are of the same duration-lasting during the eons, and when the eons end, as Scripture states they will (1 Cor. 10:11; Heb. 9:26), the time called "eonian" is past and the life called "eonian" is finished, but life continues beyond the eons, as Paul teaches at 1 Cor. 15:26: "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (which must refer to the lake of fire, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). That is, the last, the final one in order. How will it be destroyed? First Corinthians 15:22 gives the answer: "For as IN ADAM ALL are dying, even so IN CHRIST ALL shall be made alive." Death is destroyed when ALL have been made alive, IN CHRIST."
-- Dr. Edwin Abbott

Note God’s wording
In Christ all shall be made alive
not
All who are in Christ shall be made alive

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
"During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)."

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

Universalism:
The Prevailing Doctrine Of the Christian Church During Its First Five-Hundred Years
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
And they were reading the Bible in its original language!
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:46 pm

VESSELS OF DISHONOR

For anyone who may be interested, all of the arguments presented by ETers that universalism is not scriptural have been refuted in detail in this online book.
HOPE BEYOND HELL - GERRY BEAUCHEMIN (published 2007)
It can be downloaded free and read online here
http://hopebeyondhell.net/

I thank God for being able to see that believers in eternal torment will remain believers in eternal torment for as long as God wants them to.

God needs them as vessels of the grossest dishonor, a foil of contrast against which He will demonstrate the power of His love that never fails and His undefeatable grace.

But after the resurrection God will refashion all believers in eternal torment into vessels of honor because they were marred in the Potter's hands and they never leave His hands.
The doctrine of eternal torment is part of the black background against which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation, using the paint brushes of His love that never fails, and His grace that cannot be defeated.

After believers in eternal torment have done their very best to convince others about what God will not do, God is going to do it anyway.

Believers in eternal torment will probably not want to have anything to do with this link, but others on this forum might.
Why not check it out?
Read the reviews first – just a suggestion.
http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/what-others-are-saying/

HOPE BEYOND HELL - GERRY BEAUCHEMIN
http://hopebeyondhell.net/
HOPE BEYOND HELL BOOK AUDIO - Gerry Beauchemin
http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/audio-book-with-text/
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Re: SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Postby rodgertutt » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:52 pm

VOMIT

On City Data Christian forum, a poster named twin-spin frequently refers to UR as “vomit.”

twin-spin's "vomit" versus UR's "vomit"

twin-spin's definition of "vomit"
Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection He is going to save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

UR's defintion of "vomit"
Sustaining anyone alive in an inescapable state of everlasting suffering.

A snippet from A TREATISE ON ATONEMENT – HOSEA BALLOU

“We are told of a god who created millions of beings whom he intends for endless torments and puts His whole design into execution; and this is called ‘goodness.’

In millions of cases this god finds it most for his glory to make his rational, hoping, wanting creatures endlessly miserable.

We are likewise told of a devil who acts for his own gratification, and who delights in making God’s creatures miserable; and this is called ‘badness.’

Shall we thus represent our kind and merciful Father from Whom streams of goodness continually flow to His wanting, needing creatures? No; let every vibration of sense within us acknowledge His bountiful hand which will never close.”
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