Jason wrote:As the New American Standard Version translates: “And these [who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus, per verse 8] will pay the penalty [literally ‘the justice’] of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.”
Paidion wrote:It is too bad that the NASB and the ESV have inserted the word "away" into the text. As far as I know, no other translators have done that. Without the "away" it seems clear that the "eternal destruction" (whatever it is) has as its source, the presence of the Lord and the glory of His power.
Mk 7:17 And when Jesus entered the house away from (<ἀπό> apo) the crowd, his disciples asked him about the parable.
Lk 24:2 They found the stone rolled away from (<ἀπό> apo) the tomb,…
Acts 1:9 And when he had said these words, while they were watching, he was lifted up and a cloud took him away from (<ἀπό> apo) their eyes.
Acts 5:38 So in the present case I tell you, keep away from (<ἀπό> apo) these men and leave them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking be of men, it will fail;
Acts 8:33 In humiliation justice was taken from him. His family history who will declare? For his life is taken away from (<ἀπό> apo) the earth.”
Acts 14:15 …saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? For we too are men subject to the same frailties as you, bringing you good news to turn away from (<ἀπό> apo) these vain things to the living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them,…
2Cor 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are away from (<ἀπό> apo) the Lord,…
2Thess 3:6 But we charge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to stay away from (<ἀπό> apo) any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly manner and not according to the tradition that they received from us.
Heb 3:12 Be careful, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from (<ἀπό> apo) the living God.
1Pet 3:11 And let him turn away from (<ἀπό> apo) evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.
Rev 22:19 …and if anyone should take away from (<ἀπό> apo) the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share from (<ἀπό> apo) the tree of life and from the holy city, which are described in this book.
qaz wrote:Davo, how can you not be an ET or anni with such a translation?
qaz wrote:Eternal destruction away from the Lord's presence sounds like ET or anni.
2Thess 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
2Thess 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power…
Hi Davo, you wrote:I don’t think translating <ἀπό> apo *away from* in this verse necessarily detracts from its source being ‘the presence of the Lord’ etc.
Paidion wrote:Hi Davo, you wrote:I don’t think translating <ἀπό> apo *away from* in this verse necessarily detracts from its source being ‘the presence of the Lord’ etc.
I think it does.
There's a wide difference between my receiving an explanation FROM you, and my receiving an explanation AWAY FROM you.
There's also a wide difference between receiving something FROM the Lord, and receiving something AWAY FROM the Lord.
You seem to have cherry picked verses where "from" was used in the sense of "away from." It often IS used in that sense. But many times it ISN'T.
Paidion wrote:Not being a preterist who assigns virtually every saying of our Lord that most Christians see as post-mortem judgment, to the events of 70 A.D, I do not receive your explanation.
Paidion wrote:Also I think it is a grave error (and I am not sure whether or not you do this) to suppose that everyone will automatically be with the Lord forever, because Jesus death somehow covered them regardless of how they lived this earthly life.
Jesus made it clear in John 5:28, 29
Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
That resurrection of judgment will be necessary to correct unrepentant sinners.
Jn 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, AND NOW IS, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. cf. Mt 13:43
Paidion wrote:Those who have not known God during this life and refused to listen to the good news, will have to undergo a severe correction from God, even if it means lasting ruin.
Paidion wrote:They will not necessarily be AWAY FROM God during this correction; I think rather they will be corrected right in the presence of God.
Rev 14:10 …he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Paidion wrote:I understand the Orthodox Church teaches that both the "saved" and the "lost" will experience, not apart from each other but together, the same flaming fire of God's love, but the former will experience it as joy, and the latter as pain.
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