When that which is good for food, becomes more important than the word of God, it is only lust eating.

“Man cannot live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God”

When that which is pleasing to the eye becomes more than that which is the anchor of the soul, it is lust reaching for it.

The love of God was violated in someway that goes beyond just disobedience ot a command. Could we really think that as the Voice of the Lord walked with Adam and Eve in the cool of the garden that there was no relationship there? No intimacy? No communion? There was a choice made. A violation of trust. A wound in the relationship that once secured their being in innocense.

When that which makes one wise becomes more important than the ties that bind our souls as one in the love of Christ, it is lust seeking it, the desire to know exceeding the desire to be as He is, willing to lay down His life for His friends, “giving liberally to all without reproach”.

God had not given them enough? That which was offered was so superior to His love that trust should be viloated to have it?

I think here we get close to the reason God subjected all to futility. We could not know what we had lost until we wallowed in the absence of its beautifull simplicity, having traded it for something so much less that had been sold to us as “more”.

I think we get close to what it means, that the whole creation will be set free from futility into the glorious liberty of the children of God- released to the freedom of covenanted love. A covenant based not on God’s commands or our obedience, but rather a covenant based on who He Is, revealed within us with such depth by the triumph of grace over depravity, that sacrificial love becomes “all in all”= the divine nature; “the water of life”- and fellowship, communion, union and harmony within Him and altogether as one community of joy being the realization of all God’s desire and ours- a tree of life. “Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life.” The whole creation groans in anticipation.

Who would think of committing a sin upon another? Now we fully realize there is NOTHING “more” than love, because He that had ALL, poured it all out for us, so that we who had become futile and empty in our selfish pursuits of “more” could be given everything in the one place we refuse to look for it. The resolution of every question and every need and desire settled in communion with Him in the simplicity of love, and trust, a secret that unlocks every mystery and provides the key for every door, the true knowledge of God.

Eusebius,To me, the breath of life, whether you want to call it soul or not, means the Spirit. He obviously became a LIVING being because of it. Also Abel was able to please God. How is this possible if what you suggest is true? Adam was a human being, no different than we are today. We either obey God’s word and live in the Spirit or we don’t. If we don’t, our souls, spirits, or whatever else you want to call it, dies, and we become lifeless empty bodies. And no, not all of Adam’s progeny was destroyed. Noah was saved.

Hi LLC,
Every human receives God’s breath or spirit to get them to live. But that does not make one spiritual.

These verses tell us Adam was not spiritual:

“If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, “became a living soul: the last Adam a vivifying Spirit.” But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual” (1Co 15:45-46).

As to Abel, most likely he had the spirit of Christ and was able to please God:

“Concerning which salvation the prophets seek out and search out, who prophesy concerning the grace which is for you, searching into what or what manner of era the spirit of Christ in them made evident, when testifying beforehand to the sufferings pertaining to Christ and the glories after these” (1Pe 1:10-11).

If we obey God’s word it is only due to the fact that we have Christ’s spirit in us.
If one does not heed God’s word, this is due to them being dead in a figurative sense. When Jesus said “Let the dead bury the dead” He was telling the person that there are people who are dead to God and dead to Me. Let them bury the literal dead.

Eusebius, I think you are mincing words. Adam and Eve were obviously reconciled to God and living in the Spirit after they left the garden. Otherwise, they would not have been able to bear the fruit of the Spirit, as I mentioned in my previous post.

LLC, sometimes we need to mince words so they are easier to chew.

I hope I can post this without you making pejorative shots toward me. This seems to be the way folks around here treat others who disagree with them. Be that as it may:
The Bible says Adam was soulish. The scriptures do not tell us Adam was reconciled to God. Nor does the Bible tell us Adam and Eve bore the fruit of the spirit. That is just your own idea.

Eusebius, Genesis 3:15 says this: “And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed.” Eve’s Seed was not of the flesh but of the Spirit. From what I understand, this Seed is the incorruptible Seed of God that does not perish but has everlasting life. It came to fruition in Abel as well Seth.

I agree the Seed was of the spirit (however the Scriptures never describe it as “spiritual”). That Seed was Christ. Christ was the One Whose heel was hurt when He crushed Satan’s head.

Gen_3:15 And enmity am I setting between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. He shall hurt your head and you shall hurt his heel.

Eusebius, From what I understand, Adam and Eve were reconciled to God. Genesis 3:21 says this: "Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. To me, this means that God gave them new bodies. All throughout the Bible, when God gives people new clothes, a renewal has taken place.

Okay, LLC, thank you for your thoughts.
Do you think if Adam and Eve were reconciled to God that Christ didn’t have to die for them?

Eusebius, According to the Bible, the word of God began with Adam and Eve. It was passed down through the ages and continues on through Christ Jesus.

It is nice we both can agree on that.

I’m kind of curious, if Adam and Eve were reconciled to God, why didn’t God let them back into the garden?

Yes, it is. I may be in the minority when it comes to the interpretation of the Adam and Eve story. To me, it tells of salvation; that even though we sin and mess up our lives, God is able to give us new ones. We are told that if we confess with our mouths and humble our hearts, God is faithful and just to forgive. I believe this is true for all people. I think the author was kind of blunt about it, but according to the story, Adam and Eve did fess up and were ashamed of what they had done. So yes, they would have been forgiven and renewed. Reading the story from this perspective gives it a whole different meaning.

The Garden of Eden was no longer a paradise. The ground was cursed and corrupt. As in the parable of the sower and the seed, the seed of God cannot grow amongst briars and thistles because it is choked out. As Genesis 3:23 says “therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden to till the ground from which he was taken.” The ground Adam came from was not cursed. God formed him out of good ground.

God set up cherubim at the entrance of the garden with flaming swords to keep Adam and Eve out. If they were reconciled to God, whey didn’t God let them back in the garden? God wasn’t protecting weeds.

You’re right Eusebius,God wasn’t protecting weeds. He was protecting Adam and Eve.If you read Genesis 3:24, it says that the tree of life along with the cherubim were placed East of Eden. However, the snake and the TKGE remained in the garden. In all the stories of the Bible, we see God bringing or leading people out of sin-Abraham out of Ur, Lot out of Sodom and Gomorrah, the Exodus, etc. etc. I believe the same goes for Adam and Eve as they were delivered from a place that had fallen into corruption and given a new life.

Jesus said to the one who overcomes I will give to eat of the tree of life that is in the garden of God. The flaming sword is the fire in the eyes of Jesus, “No one can enter except through me”… “I will be a wall of fire around Zion”…“The kingdom of heaven is within”…“The kingdom of God is not meat nor drink but righteousness peace and joy in the holy spirit.”

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Heb 4

The penetration that divides soul and spirit is the opening and the way in to the garden of God, that is why we cannot rightly divide the word of truth until we have been rightly divided by it. The overcomer is the one who has been slain by the word, and no longer seeks his own glory.

1In that day the LORD will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
With His fierce and great and mighty sword,
Even Leviathan the twisted serpent;
And He will kill the dragon who lives in the sea.

  2In that day,
        “A vineyard of wine, sing of it!

  3“I, the LORD, am its keeper;
        I water it every moment.
        So that no one will damage it,
        I guard it night and day. Isaiah 27

Everything we endure without is to bring us to the entrance within…

The narrow gate, the needles eye, the flaming sword,

The word dividing asunder soul and spirit joints and marrow, so that we can enter through the single eye of a devoted heart…

Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. 14But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. 17But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

That’s a flaming sword right there, imo.

Prv 11: 30The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who is wise wins souls.

Pslm 1

1How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked,
Nor stand in the path of sinners,
Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!

  2But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
        And in His law he meditates day and night.

  3He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
        Which yields its fruit in its season
        And its leaf does not wither;
        And in whatever he does, he prospers.

If Adam was reconciled to God, why did the curse remain on him to be dying and why did the curse remain on the ground?
Also, the tree of life was in the garden. The garden was east of Eden. The cherubim, with flaming swords would not allow Adam or Eve access to the garden or tree of life after they were kicked out. He was protecting the garden and tree of life from Adam and Eve because they disobeyed.

Adam and Eve were the ones who became corrupted. God was protecting the garden from them.

There is a difference between forgiven and reconciled. There is a difference between reconciled and restored.

For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

Eusebius, from what I understand, the tree of life is incorruptible. As Matthew 7:18 says, a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. It is always available for us to eat of; however, we cannot eat of the tree of life if we are eating of a tree that bears bad fruit; it is either one or the other. As I mentioned before, Adam Eve returned to the good ground, and they conceived and gave birth to the seed of God. Obviously, this ground was not cursed. Abel was prosperous and able to produce good fruit, and had Cain’s heart been in the right place, his fruit would have been acceptable as well. Genesis 3:20 says this: “And Adam called his wife’s name eve, because she was the mother of all living.” This does not sound like death to me.