The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Talbott on Matthew 25:41, 46?

P.S. Let me rephrase that last question.

Idiomatically speaking, what do you take “aion of aions” to mean?

(Would it mean “forever,” “indefinitely,” “for ages,” “unto the age of ages,” or something else entirely?)

The short answer is, no; because the phrases translated “forever and ever” don’t include the adjective {aio_nion} (or eonian). The suffixing of the adjective changes sometimes, of course, which can make for confusion.

Some example of related terms and phrases:

1.) The adjective “eonian”, or {aio_nion}, used in Matt 25:41, 46 (as a topically handy example :mrgreen: ) to describe what kind of “fire” and “chastening” and what kind of life is being given; {to pur to aio_nion} {kolasin aio_nion} and {zo_e_n aio_nion}, each introduced with the preposition {eis} or “into”.

(The reference to the fire in verse 41 is extremely interesting: the grammatic construction shows that “eonian” is being thought of as a noun reference in parallel identification with the fire. Literally it would be “into the Fire, the Everlasting”. Soooo… how many “Everlastings” are there supposed to exist in all reality?! One One that I am aware of, and acknowledge and profess!! :smiley: :laughing: :sunglasses: )

Another highly interesting use of the adjective is at 2 Tim 1:9, where the calling and salvation of God are given to us, not according to our works, but given to us in Christ Jesus according to God’s own purpose and grace {pro chrono_n aio_nio_n}. At the very least this has to mean “before eternal times”, which again at the least is a reference going back to the heart of God Himself (as the whole context emphasizes anyway). But if we’re thinking about the adjective {aio_nion} (here suffixed with an omega, not an omicron, in order to match the suffix of {chron-} in its prepositional phrase link with {pro}) being itself a source-reference to God the Everlasting One, then it makes even more sense: the gift of grace occurs in some way superior to the times-from-God. This has the advantage of not requiring us to treat the times themselves as “eternal”, which would be instantly contradictory to the sense of the passage. (Note the relationship of this sentence, as a whole, to a similar statement near the end of Romans, discussed by me elsewhere in its uses of “eonian” as a description of a secret and as a description of God.)

The adjective “eonian” occurs more often than any other form or phrase of the word, but all the other forms or phrases together occur more often (in total) than “eonian”.

The form of the word here, {aio_nio_n}, should not be confused with “eons” in genitive form as an object of the preposition “of”, {aio_no_n}. This has the same basic meaning of ‘a particular segment of natural history’ as “eons” in accusative form as the object of some other prepositions, {aio_nas}.

A good example of both of these put together would be:

2.) “into the eons of the eons” {eis tous aio_nas to_n aio_no_n}. Such as in the doxology of Rev 1:7, “To Him is the glory and the might into the eons of the eons”.

This phrase occurs quite frequently in the NT, especially as a doxology: Rom 16:26, Gal 1:5, Ph 4:20, 1Tim 1:17, Heb 13:21, 1Pet 4:11, 5:11, Rev 1:7 (as noted). There are probably a dozen other uses as well, including Christ (Rev 1:18) and God (Rev 4:9-10, 10:6, 15:7) living “into the eons of the eons”.

Of interest to our present topic, Satan is tormented into the eons of the eons (Rev 20:1); the smoke of the Great Harlot Babylon goes up into the eons of the eons (Rev 19:3); and those who worship the Beast and his Image, receiving the mark on hand or forehead, shall drink the cup of the wrath of God unmixed in the presence of the angels of God and of the Lamb, with the smoke of their torment ascending into ages of ages. (This last has a minor variant where the direct article for {aio_no_n} is omitted.)

Some rare variant phrasings in the NT include:

3.) “the eon of the eons”, {tou aio_nos to_n aio_no_n}, Eph 20:21, “the glory of Him in the congregation and in Christ Jesus into all the generations of the eon of the eons.” (This version has the genitive in both prepositional phrases.)

4.) “the eon of the eon”, {eis ton aio_na tou aio_nos}, Heb 1:8, “The throne of yours, O God, is into the eon of the eon.”

5.) “into all the eon”, {eis pantas tous aio_nas}, Jude 25, “to the only God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord: glory, greatness, might and authority, before all the eon {pro pantos tou aio_nos} and into all the eon, Amen!”

6.) “before the eons”, {pro to_n aio_non}, 1 Cor 2:7, “But we speak of God a wisdom in mystery: that which has been hidden, which God designated beforehand, before the eons, into our glory!”

7.) “from the eons”, {apo to_n io_no_n}, Eph 3:9, “the fellowship of the mystery: that which has been hidden from the eons in God Himself, all the things having been created through Jesus Christ.”

8.) “from an/the eon”, {ap-aio_nos}, Acts 15:18, “known (to the Lord in His work) from an eon”. (A few other NT occurrences, too.)

9.) “into an/the eon”, {eis aio_na}, Jude 13, “wandering stars (asteres plane_tai), for whom the blackness of darkness into an eon has been kept.” (Trivia note: “has been kept”, or {tete_re_tai}, sounds rather like a pun for Tartarus, where God thrusts sinning angel/messengers in 2 Pet 2:4.)

More frequent are the phrases:

10.) “into the eon”, {eis ton aio_na}, many examples, Matt 21:19/Mark 11:14; Mark 3:29; John 4:14, 6:51, 58, 8:35, 51-52, 10:28, 11:26, 12:34, 13:8, 14:16; 1 Cor 8:13; 2 Cor 9:9; Heb 5:6, 6:20, 7:17, 21, 24, 28; 1 John 2:17; 2 John 2.

11.) “into the eons”, Luke 1:33, 55; Heb 13:8; 1Pet 1:25; and obviously also all those doxology places listed back under set (2). :mrgreen:

While there are several other occurrences of the term “eon” in the NT, these are the ones which tend to be translated “eternal”, “forever”, “everlasting”, etc.

The point (recusing back to Michael’s question) is that the phrasing might be “ageish” (as an adjective–or as a vocative noun, even, per my Matt 25 example!), or it might be “age of the ages”. But it’s never “age of the ageish”.

But the difference between spelling {aio_nion} and {aio_non} (depending on the suffix of the latter, which is usually an omega instead of an omicron, though: {aio_no_n}) is pretty small.

And now, having presented these for consideration and discussion, I am off to eat lunch at last!

I rather like that as a suggestion. (Although I’ve also seen it explained “un-if-being”, which would still fit into the ancient Greek concept of natural time being the ontological Final Fact: That Which Intrinsically Is.) For one thing, it fits rather suggestively into how I’ve been translating {aio_nion}, because there is also a theory (which by the way I use in my novels) that reason YHWH is unpronounceable is because it is “pronounced” by breath exhaling and then inhaling. (But proper humility among us derivative creatures would require us to not-pronounce it by inhaling and then exhaling. :slight_smile: )

And while that wasn’t where I originally developed my understanding of positive aseity (God being self-begetting and self-begotten), the cyclical ‘nature’ of that (in a way, though not as a discreetly repeating process) fits into that theory of YHWH’s pronunciation, too.

Be that as it may. Something to tickle around in the back of our minds, I guess. :slight_smile:

Incidentally, I do kind-of like the idea of “age of ages” to mean something like “king of kings” (i.e. the greatest of ages). But as it happens, “age of ages” is super-rare as a phrase in NT Greek. (Only once that I can find, Eph 3:21.) Almost always it’s “the ages of the ages”.

Be that as it may. I think the plural of the phrase indicates an indeterminate but vastly long stretch of natural time. The singular of the phrase (“into the eon”, “for the eon”) may mean the same thing, keeping in mind that sometimes the reference seems to be for this eon (which we know is going to end) and sometimes for the Day of the Lord to come (which isn’t going to end).

I will point out that even when the reference is to this current eon, the event being described may not end when this eon ends. Similarly, the event being described might or might not end in the eon to come (even if that eon itself never ends). It’s also notable that the Day of the Lord to come, even though it counts as an eon, may itself contain sub-eons, themselves dividable into eons (“into the ages of the ages”).

So it isn’t altogether simple. :slight_smile:

However, I will say that if I was a non-universalist, it wouldn’t be based on whether an eon didn’t end; similarly, my universalism doesn’t depend on whether an eon does end. But I will also say that from a rhetorical usage standpoint, if I didn’t have many other reasons to think otherwise and only focused on the rhetorical usage of “eon” in regard to punishment, I might very easily think this was a witness to the hopeless permanence of the punishment.

As it is, the stress on duration reminds me that even if the punishment is hopeful (and regardless of severity or lack thereof), it’s still going to continue until the soul repents and agrees to cooperate with God in sending away its sins. If I insist on my sinning, it isn’t as though I can expect to be freed of God’s wrath simply because some period of time has passed.

(Although, not-incidentally, that does seem to be how the prophecies of the OT in regard to the sins of Israel were popularly interpreted during Jesus’ day: we’ve done our time and now we can come out, right? Well, yes, the time of “God’s Salvation”, YSHuA, is coming and is even already here–but that doesn’t mean you’re going to automatically be set free of the results of punishment. The far more important thing is to be freed from your sinning, and if you refuse to be free of that… well, “until the last farthing” is rendered up, you won’t be coming out!)

Thank you Jason,

Much of what you wrote was very interesting, but your “short answer” wasn’t addressed to my question (what Maurice wrote, or the problem I had with the quote I provided.)

In discussing the meaning of the adjective (eonian) , Maurice (unlike Prof. Talbott) seems to insist that the noun itself (eon) has no time connotations.

Is that not going a bridge too far?

How can you agree with Maurice, and take the expression translated “forever and ever” in Rev. 20:10 to mean “into the eons of eons”?

How can you get “ages” or “sub-ages” from a word “expressing a permanent fixed state, and not a succession of moments”?

(And remember, Maurice said the noun “aion” served that purpose in Greek–how can you agree with that?)

I still don’t see how this could fail to make gibberish of the phrases we’ve been discussing.

What would “into the permanent fixed state of permanent fixed states” mean?

Even idiomatically, what would such an expression mean??

I had already answered that, several comments previously, when you asked it: “yes, too far.” (

)

Since I don’t agree with Maurice that the base meaning of {aion}, as applied in the NT, has to do with divinity (despite my appreciation with some suggestions along that line in other more recent comments), I consequently don’t have a conflict in translating “into the eons of the eons” as “into the eons of the eons” in Rev 20:10. :slight_smile:

Translating “into the eons of the eons” as “into the eons of the eons” isn’t the difficult thing; that’s the easy thing. The far more difficult thing is figuring out how the NT authors are using the adjective “eonian”; which I do find has thematic connection to the Deity.

I don’t consider “eon” to have a primary meaning of expressing a permanent fixed state in NT usage. Even if I did, though, there might be something equivalent to ‘a larger permanent fixed state encompassing a smaller permanent fixed state’.

So, for example: the Lordship of God is a permanent reality in regard to all of natural time as a whole. (Otherwise we’re talking about a very different theology than any supernaturalistic theism.) Natural time as a whole could be said to exist in a permanent fixed state within and subordinate to the Lordship of God. (I’m a bit agnostic about this, but I’ll grant it hypothetically for purposes of argument.) From our perspective on the timeline, humanity’s history before the giving of the Torah on Sinai could be reckoned as an age; and even though this period of time can be reckoned as a succession of moments (as could all of natural time for that matter), that age also from our perspective has certain permanently fixed characteristics as “past history”. The whole of history would be one eon; but that whole total eon would be reckonable in terms of sub-eons, each of which has (under God) some set of permanently fixed characteristics: this period happens before the giving of the Law, this period happens between the giving of the Law and the Incarnation, this period happens between the Incarnation and the Second Coming, this period happens after the Second Coming, etc.

I reiterate, though, that I find the NT usage of {aio_n} per se to typically involve reference to what you’re calling a succession of moments of indeterminate (but long) length. The aions are not regarded as permanently fixed in the sense that Greek Stoics and similar philosophies regarded them; there isn’t, for example, an endlessly repeating cycle of ages of approximately (or even identically) the same events, inescapable and binding upon all reality, even upon the gods (if they exist), eternal in its supreme ontological status. (And even then, each one of the cycle of ages can hardly be said to be essentially a permanently fixed state, since they transition successively into one another.)

Good question, but not my problem. An even better question, since the phrase occurs very much more often in the NT, would be, “what does into the permanent fixed states of permanent fixed states” mean?

Going back to my “short answer”, meanwhile: the first and chief reason that Maurice’s proposed underlying meaning for {aio_n} wouldn’t make gibberish of expressions like “aion tou aionios” in the scriptures, is because that type of phrase never shows up once in the scriptures. Not in the NT, and (as far as I know or even could imagine) not in the OT Greek LXX either. “Age of ages” yes, once. “Ages of ages”, yes, many times. “Age of Agey” (or whatever the adjective {aio_nio_n/ios} would be super-literally translated as, with appropriate direct article), never. (But the plural of eon, when used in a particular prepositional form, looks at first glance very much like the adjective {aio_nio_n}.)

The technical rebuttal doesn’t detract from the strength of your complaint, however. :slight_smile:

Thank you Jason,

But would Maurice’s proposed underlying meaning for aio_n make gibberish of phrases like “aio_n tou (or ton) aio_nio_n/ios”?

(And btw, not having Greek font, and having to spell phonetically using the keys on available on this keyboard, does make this level of technical discussion rather difficult.)

I agree.

I’d hate to think of what being “tormented into a larger permanent fixed state encompassing a smaller permanent fixed state” might mean.

If not gibberish, I suspect it would mean something like “forever and ever,” no?

Then we appear to be in total agreement (aside from the technicalities.)

BTW: Let me reiterate that I agree with those (like Dean Farrar and Prof. Talbott) who say that aio_nio_n often has “has thematic connection to the Deity.”

Agreed either way. :slight_smile:

Incidentally, the main spelling difference between the adjective {aio_ni-} and the noun {aio_n-} is that iota at the end, suffix variations notwithstanding. One of the common prepositional forms of plural {aio_n} looks almost like the typical form of the adjective {aio_ni}, except for the iota.

{aio_nio_n} – typical adjectival form
{aio_no_n} – plural object of a prepositional class (I forget which one at the moment, but common).

Also, I would like to state again, if I haven’t done so recently, that I hate Biblical Greek and all other foreign languages. :stuck_out_tongue:PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!! :mrgreen:

(Well, no, I like hearing other people speak and deal with them, and hearing about what kind of etymology things they come up with. And I very much enjoy hearing them enjoy the languages they know. :sunglasses: I admire linguists greatly, because it’s something I’ll probably always have to struggle with. I just wanted to clarify that I’m far from being an expert in these things… the most I can do is try to follow the lead of other people insofar as I can see and understand their rationales. I desperately wish I had the help of someone-I-can’t-really-talk-about in these matters. But… not something I can ever rightfully hope for, so… all I can do is drag myself along bit by bit; probably obscuring whatever progress I’ve made along the way. :frowning: )

Thank you Jason.

I’m no linguist either, but I don’t hate foreign languages.

I’ve taken some Spanish, and I know a little (spoken, modern) Greek–but I would love to learn to speak and write these languages fluently (if I had the time.)

I’d be even more interested in learning to speak and write New Testament Greek fluently (if I had the time)–but with things as they are, I have to rely on study helps like analytical concordances and reverse interlinears.

Yasou and hasta luego mi amigo.

P.S. I noticed both a typo and some oversights in my last post.

The perenthetical “(or ‘ton’)” would probably be grammatically incorrect, and the “BTW” should have read “Let me reiterate that I agree with those who (like Dean Farrar, Prof. Talbott, and yourself) maintain that aio_nio_n (as used in the New Testament) often has a 'thematic connection to the Deity.”

Having made those corrections, let me add that I’ve visited your web site (“Sword to the Heart”) and find it very interesting (as are all your posts here.)

I have nothing but the highest respect for you, I enjoy reading your posts, and I thank you for your comments.

See my notes below, but the passage in question is (so you can reference):

31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 

40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.' 

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 

45 "He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 

46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." 


While I certainly appreciate the insight given here on aionios and the unlikeliness that it literally means endless, have we missed the broader point of the parable, which seems painfully obvious when read through a time or two? Neglecting those in need is neglecting Jesus himself, and helping those in need is helping Jesus himself. The warning is deadly serious, even if the punishment itself is not punitive and everlasting. This is the only known metric Jesus uses to determine righteousness/unrighteousness as it pertains to one’s future destiny, whatever that may look like, although in The Rich Man and Lazarus, we have something similar, as it was relatvely apparent the rich man ignored the beggar at his door.

No. We just weren’t talking about the broader point, for this thread. :slight_smile:

Since you mention the reason why the goats were sent in for God’s-own-brisk-cleaning, however: interpreters of this passage have a tendency to imply that those whom the sheep visited in prison were unjustly prisoned. This isn’t stated in the text, though; whereas the list of objects of mercy is similar to that from Isaiah with which Jesus inaugurated His official ministry efforts during the sermon in Nazareth: where those in prison, who are being set free, are not unjustly prisoned (which was probably what His audience was thinking of, too), but those who had been justly imprisoned by no less than God Himself.

We should not be surprised, then, if we discover that God Himself visits those who have been justly imprisoned and expects us to do the same, in order to have mercy on them.

Which personally I take to understand, that it isn’t only if I refuse to have mercy on “the deserving poor” that I may be judged as a goat and not a sheep. (Edited to add: though that, too, of course. F&B’s reminder of the larger context is very appropriate.) I may be judged as a goat if I refuse to have mercy and compassion on the rightly imprisoned criminals, too: those who, among other things, refused to have mercy on the poor. The moment I condemn those goats to hopeless imprisonment, in my heart, I am setting up myself to be a goat and not a sheep.

Speaking as a goat - when I bleat on in threads on this board about being more impressed by unwarrented concern and kindness than preaching - this is exactly the kind of thing I’m driving at (not easy to drive with these hooves by the way).

If I am to find myself herded together on the wrong side of the dividing line, I for one, would be very likely to be moved by the love of those sheep over there.

For those who may be interested, I’ve found the following quote (from Thomas Allin) extremely helpful.

tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm

I probably read over this before, but it’s not something that should be read over.

It’s a brilliant observation. :open_mouth:

Everlasting correction permanently corrects, everlasting fire permanently consumes, and to perish everlastingly would be to permanently cease to exist (at least as one was prior to perishing–2 Cor. 5:17.)

Very interesting.

BTW: This may or may not fit here, but even Bishop Jeremy Taylor once quoted Justin Martyr to the effect that “everlasting” (when used of “everlasting fire”) “signifies only to the end of it’s proper period.” (Sermon on Christ’s Advent to Judgment.)

encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861611607/fire.html

“Eternal Fire” would permanently destroy ( or consume ) that which needs to be destroyed.

This whole discussion becomes moot once we realize that Matt 25 is part of a speech Jesus gave called the |
“Olivette Discourse.” Why? because Jesus tells us explicitely that ALL of these events MUST take place before that generation passed away. Jesus ascended his throne 2000 yrs ago. This is not refering to some final judgment at the end of time. In response to the reprobate Jewish religious leaders, Jesus was predicting the impending judgment they called down upon themselves when they declared to Pilate, “Let his blood be upon us and our children.” It was an awesome curse they declared upon themselves and history records the results of that curse.

But Jesus is not prophesying about the final fate of individuals when they meet their maker. Rather he is predicting his judgment upon Israel, and any nation for that matter that doesn’t bow the knee to him. Any nation that persecutes Christians shall receive chastisement through out the age to come.Which age? The age of Christ. The age that began when he ascended from the grave and declared that all power and authority has been (note - past tense) given unto him. Israel received one generation reprieve to repent, failed to do so and was judged. Some of the generation Jesus spoke to upon the Mount of Olives were still alive. No all, perhaps not many, but some. James Stuart Russell things the nations refers to the “tribes” of Israel, but it probably refers to all the surrounding nations. If Jesus were referring to individuals we would have him contradicting everything else i the Bible, because he would be advocating salvation by works. what works? The works of treating Christians well. According to the traditional interpretation, Jesus blesses and damns people exclusively on the basis of how they treat Christians. This is nOT the Gospel. So this cannot be the meaning.

We’ve been discussing Matt 24 (though not yet Matt 25, last I checked, despite my trying to introduce the relevant extension of the topic) here in this thread which was originally about the Rapture and universalism.

Would you also repost this comment over there, in order to consolidate recent conversations? (Keep it here, too, of course. If you do, I’ll add a more specific link here for interested readers to follow the conversation over there. :slight_smile: )

“And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:” - Matthew 25:32

Is it possible to interpret eternal life and eternal punishment in the permanent sense if we view the sheep and the goats as nations, without compromising the universalist stance?

Therefore, the sheep nations are those who collectively fed the poor, gave drink to the hungry, visited the sick and in prison, took in strangers, etc. (though I would be unclear as to who catagorically ‘my brethren’ would consitute: Jews, Christians, or the general population, since Christ died for the world and will eventually make everyone brethren :smiley: ).

The reward, therefore, would be those nations will survive any coming judgement and be granted access to the Messianic Kingdom, as suggested in Rev. 21:24.

“Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:…Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”

The goat nations, on the other hand, would be cease to be nations as a permanent consequence, thus eternal punishment. Thus would gel with the pronouncements Jesus had with various cities:

“Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.” - Matthew 10:15

Here, for example, those cities that didn’t receive the disciples (who were commissioned of the Lord to preach the gospel, heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons; you know, freely giving, the sort of things listed in Matt 25) to nor give them peace are to be judged more harshly than Sodom and Gomorrah, for these cities would know better to treat the disciples kindly, whereas Sodom and Gomorrah was rude to begin with.

*"Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee." - Matthew 11:20-24 *

Evidently, these are the resulting cities Jesus anticipated in Matthew 10. Particularly interesting is Capernaum’s status: one from being exalted in heaven, to one being brought down to hell. Capernaum, btw, is nothing but a ruined archeological site today, though existed up until 750 A.D.

Now I realize that Jesus was condemning cities within Israel, not nations. However, I tend to look at Israel in the OT before Christ as a microcosm of the world at large after Christ. So the idea extends to the nations of the world in their treatment of Christ’s brethren, whomever that may be (I tend to lean toward the Jews and Israel, specifically, and by extension, Christian nations, but am open to other interpretations). I see a microcosm in the parable of the Good Samaritan as well.

Israel, as an example, have a unique national identity, for with they take pride in, for which they have strong cultural and religious traditions. Likewise, Japan, Spain, France, Great Britain, the Philippines, Kenya, Russia, New Zealand, even the U.S, as diverse as it is. To take that identity away is a tremendous loss for that people. Yet what if this is the very punishment awaiting those nations that do not abide by the criteria of Matthew 25. That all the cultural traditions held dear are ruined, the country destroyed, and the people of those nations have nothing left. They would be refugees, people without anymore identity, no nationality to grasp onto. They are no longer who they were. They would be nothing. Dead as a nation. No longer remembered.

“Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:…Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me”

But then, there is the healing of the nations…

BTW, the above view also preserves *individual * salvation by faith, not by works, while the judgment of the nations are by the collective works of the people within those nations.

common sense prevails!