This post is a little long and for some, I am sure, speculative- but it comes around to the OPâŚ
I believe there is kolassis awaitng the wicked- just because of the language of scripture, but I also believe that the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ will set everyone free. These are not mutually exclusive- they are one(imo). In Rev 1 His eyes are as flames of fire and a two-edged sword comes out of His mouth. Heb 4:12 describe thisâŚ
12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
Romans 2 also⌠15 their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
I believe we are part of the lake of fire- the great cloud of witness that are the families of the Father of lights will be gathered in the presence of God and His holy angels(and really already are, âseated in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesusâ). Remember how Paul said, âIn the presence of God and His holy angels I have decided to delievr such a one over to Satan for the destruction of the fleshâŚâ
When someone shared this with me 6 or 7 years ago I wasnt sure about it(us being, or being part of, the lake of fire and it representing a cosmic âfamily interventionâ so to speak) but many scriptures began to jump out at me, likeâŚ
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"Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? âKnow you not that you will judge angelsâ(1Cor 6:2)
âThe thrones were set in placeâŚthe court was seated and the books were opened.â(Dan 7:9-11)
âHis eyes were as flames of fireâ(Rev 1), âAll things are open to the eyes of Him with which we have to doâ(Hebrews 4:12),
âThe eyes of the Lord run to and fro over the whole earth seeking the pure in heart that He might show Himself strong in themâ
âIf anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone** in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb**(.Rev 14)
God takes His stand in His own congregation;
He judges in the midst of the rulers. (Ps 82:1)
All these verses tell me that all judgment takes place in the presence of the Lord in the midst of the âgreat congregationâ.
The only verse that âsupposedlyâ says differently is
âThey will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his mightâ (2 Thessalonians 1:9).
I think it should read differentlyâŚ
I would translate it, âthey will suffer the punishment of aionian correction from the presence of the Lord.â
away from is âapoâ which is translated, âbyâ âfromâ âbecause ofâ âofâ and âout ofâ over 500 times and never âaway fromâ except for here in 2 Thess
In Acts 5:2 it is actually translated âpart ofâ for when Anninias and Safira help back part of the sale price of their land.
I believe all judgment is in the presence of God, âOn the day when the Lord judges the secrets of mens hearts through Jesus Christâ(Rom 2), I charge you in the presence of God and His holy angels"(Tim), âAnd the devil and His angels were tomented in the presence of the Lord and His holy angels with fre(pyr) and brimstone(theon)â.
Some UR folks believe this(conversion) will happen for all instantly when they see His face but I believe that runs contrary to the common language of many verses.
Since Jesus said this experience(aionian kolassis) was to be avoided, I dont think it will be instant for all and I think it will be long and difficult for some, because if the last adversary is death and maybe the second to last the devil(1 Cor 15), it may take many stripes until some bow the knee and few for some, or there would be no need to speak of a âlast adversaryâ because, when the last human bows the knee there will be no more death, so there would be no âlast adversaryâ or need for âthrones and books and courtsâ if all were instantly saved at the great white throne. I am familiar with all the gnostic and mystic explanations for those verses about the lake of fire and Romans 1 and 2. They are just not convincing to me.
But, âOur God is a consuming fireâ and it is certain that the fire is love, because âGod is loveâ and the purging, as I see it, comes from the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ"(2 Cor 4) burning away every veil, consuming every impdiment to love(adversary)
1 Cor 15:25-28âŚ25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he âhas put everything under his feet.â Now when it says that âeverythingâ has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
If death is destroyed there can be no more enemies and no more kolassis or torment or lake of fire, because it is the second death.
He is coming in the clouds with 10,000s of 10,000s of His holy onesâŚHe makes His angels winds and His ministers flames of fire
But the biggest confirmtion of this for me is Hebrews 12 which begins with the Great cloud of witnesses(he is coming in the clouds), then defines the âgreat congregationââŚ
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to** an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant**, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
interesting how that portion ends with verse 29.
Godâs fire is love. The righteous shine in it. The wicked are purged in it until they repent, and then they shine too, because God becomes all in all.
Ez 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
The penalty here of iniquity is to be removed from the midst of the stones of fire(which are imo, âthe spirits of righteous men made perfectâ) to be cast out of Zion(the mountain of God as seen in Heb 12). This represents âouter darknessâ, imo. âTake them before the whole assembly and if they do not repent let them become as a heathen(cast out)â. A similar heavenly judgment was laid upon the âangls who left their proper abodeâ(traded service for self will) in JudeâŚâBound in aidos chains in outer darknessâ. Also James 3âŚâIf their is selfish ambition and bitter jealousy among you do not be arrogant and lie against the truthâŚThis wisdom is not from above but is earthly, soulish, demonic.â
Isaiah 25:7
And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord God will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
2 Cor 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesusâ sake. 6 For God, who said, âLight shall shine out of darkness,â is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
All these scriptures and more go into the context of Godâs attributes. There is one God. He is Fire. He is Love.
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this **world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving [c]so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants [d]for Jesusâ sake. 6 For God, who said, âLight shall shine out of darkness,â is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and purged the bloodshed of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning, 5 then the Lord will create over the whole area of Mount Zion and over her assemblies a cloud by day, even smoke, and the brightness of a flaming fire by night; for over all the glory will be a canopy.
Here we see how judgement begins in the house of God with the elders at jerusalemâŚthe Fire/Love spreads out from the throne(center), claiming all in its path and purging AND TRANSFORMING all in its wake until God is all in all. Transformation through judgment, from filthiness(carnality) to beautyâŚ
Fire takes matter and converts it into spirit. That which was of earth is transformed and rises as smoke. It is all one and it is coming out from Jesus who is in the bosom of the Father who alone dwells in unapproachable light. Light is fire to darkness. The light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it.(Jn 1)
Jeremiah 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
This is why the beauty of Genesis 1 is a diadem of revelation for interpreting the whole scrollâŚ
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, âLet there be lightâ; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.
At every level, from the individual, to the nation, to the eon, to the whole of mankind through out all time⌠God speaks(He 12 see that you refuse not Him who speaks⌠for our God is a consuming fire), âLet there be lightâ and chaos gets separated into light and darkness, form rises out of the confusion, the void becomes the reservoir receiving fulness, until all is filled.
Roman 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse
Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
The Son is the word, His word is a fire- the radiance of the Fatherâs glory and the exact representation of His nature. That radiance is a fire consuming the whole cosmos into Godâs love. âIf I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto meâ.**