Hey Mag,
I have heard it so and I understand what you are saying. I see these as “fulfilled” not done away with. The sacrifice (to me) is not done away with - it stands, it is, even now. John saw the Lamb slain in the true temple in heaven - it stands - it is still. An understanding of the shadow points us to the Messiah. Many christians don’t even understand who Messiah is or why He deserves that title. To them, He is the American Jesus not the Jewish Messiah. They have only a vague idea, if any, about the importance of the sacrifices and Yeshua as our sacrifice. Wouldn’t faith be strengthened by understanding sacrifices and what Yeshua really did when He became the sacrifice? Torah keeps pointing to Him, even in the fulfilling, keeps confirming His credibility as the Messiah. Same with the “feasts”, understanding and participating in circumcision, or baptism. Hebrews is clear that there has been a change in the sacrifice but, it is fulfilled not done away with. If the sacrifice was done away with, there would be no Savior. I know I don’t view things in a traditional manner and it is not easy to get where I’m coming from so, I understand your concerns about my convictions.
If those are not useful literally, why the rest of the law?
As with Auggy, I don’t really get this “literal” label. I agree that we do not need to keep the law to be saved, that Messiah’s sacrifice is our salvation. However, we are still in the physical flesh here. I think we begin to fall under the “too heavenly minded for any earthly good” lifestyle sometimes. Outside of christian culture the idea of “love” doesn’t even make sense without good works. We may tell our unbelieving neighbor we “love them, God loves them” etc., but, if we steal from them, kill them, commit adultery (even looking), etc., with their spouse we aren’t fooling anyone but ourselves. They know that isn’t love. I have only been consistent in loving God as He says to according to the commandments by keeping sabbath on the 7th day. I know Yeshua is our rest but, keeping 7th day sabbath is only an outward sign of that, like baptism is a sign of dying with Christ and being raised from the death. None of us have “literally” died and been raised with Christ - we are still here in the flesh. It is for a sign. Again, I know it is not traditional christianity and may be a new idea but, I do not see it as inconsistent with what Yeshua did or taught or what is written. I know it has long been taught as inconsistent but, those are only teachings taught by men.
When you talk about not knowing what to do, like say in murder or adultery, those are two instances of not loving your neighbor. If you kill someone, you are not loving them. If I cheat on my wife, I am not loving her. If I steal again I’m not loving my neighbor.
Truth. I agree. I am only extending that idea to all of the commandments instead of a select few.
If I eat pig I’m not breaking the loving my neighbor law. You could say that you’re breaking the love God law. It was said that nothing on the outside can defile you, and I go back to the literals above being done away with, so why not this? I don’t think eating pig is not loving God.
In historical accounts, people in Israel were cruelly tortured and mercilessly murdered because they would not eat swine. It meant that much to them to obey God and interestingly, it meant that much to the Greek pagans that they eat it. I wonder why?
“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.” (Dan 7:25)
Why does the anti christ want to change time and law? What does he want to change it from? God’s way of counting time, God’s law, I would venture.
“for, verily I say to you, till that the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the law, till that all may come to pass. `Whoever therefore may loose one of these commands–the least–and may teach men so, least he shall be called in the reign of the heavens, but whoever may do and may teach them , he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.” - Yeshua Messiah (Mat 5:18-19)
What could that mean then? what is the significance of eating unclean animals symbolically? Mice are unclean, the word tselem is an idol that means mice. So there must be some spiritual significance to it. spiritual dirtiness, since mice congregate in dirty areas? I don’t know, it hasn’t been given to me yet
The downfall in thinking we no longer are obligated to uphold the law in a physical way is, we no longer see a reason for keeping it. Again, this is my thinking, it is not traditional and I haven’t run into a lot of people that understand or appreciate it.
2 Corinth 6:16- 7:1 "We are the temple of the living God, as God has said “I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be thier God and they shall be My people.” (quoted from the “old testament” - Lev 26)
Therefore,
“Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.” (from the “old testament” Isaiah 52, Ezek 20)
“I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, says Yehovah Almighty.” (from the “ot” 2 Sam 7)
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the FLESH AND SPIRIT, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
In this passage Mag, I see according to Paul the promises made to Israel is also extended to the Corinthian “goy”. And, that he says cleanse “ourselves” from ALL (all means all right?) filthiness of the FLESH, as well as the spirit, to perfect holiness. So, we are the temple of God. Where has anything unclean come into the tabernacle or temple in times past? Only when the pagans desecrated it with swine flesh. We are now the literal (in my terms physical and spiritual) “temple” of God. Isn’t it still important? It is to me. Also, as an aside, I think of things like illnesses related to swine and unclean things, scientists messing around with genetics and things they have no business in and think it will be important one day that we kept God’s commandments. It’s the prophet in me, lol! I do also think of it as how I love God. He knows my heart.
blessings
Blessings to you too!