The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Salvation by Faith Alone?

Once again, what do you Dave need to do? That is the million dollar question. :open_mouth: Possibly, it is talking about folks there in that time and not us here. :wink:

There are certainly some hints here:
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

Dave has to understand that God will render to me according to my works - which are patient well-doing
Dave gets to seek for glory and honor and immortality, if Dave wants eternal life.
Dave cannot be self-seeking and disobedient to the truth.

etc.

Please Brother don’t get mad at me as I say what I am going to say…

The alternative view is that Dave was never there, Dave has no dog in that hunt. An understanding of what went down was that God unilaterally through Christ rendered sin and death ‘null and void.’

The problem is that you have to be willing to look at it on a different level. You DaveB are totally taken care of by Christ.

I hope that is good news to you. :wink:

Not the way I see it, friend Chad. I’m not earning salvation, just working it out.
I’ve tried looking at it your way, and Mike Williams’s way, and it is not my path. I think you are missing something big, and conversely, you believe, and perhaps correctly, that I am missing something big.
I’m already glad of the good news!! :laughing:

And for now, Paul is my guide, and he was preaching after Christ had ‘done it all’.

I understand. Good luck and my prayers are with you. :smiley:

But Chad - does this mean it’s OVER between us?? Is this it, the final straw? End of the line? A bridge too far? The nuclear option??

No sir, if I can be blunt, I don’t care what you believe. You are who you are and I am what I am. I still love you and hope to meet you some day. Anyone who builds guitars is okay in my book!

Good. It was exhausting trying to think of more silly metaphors for ‘breaking up’. :laughing:

I actually DO care what you believe, and not just you but others here as well. I find it stimulating/exhilarating/exhausting/irritating/nourishing/- did I already say irritating? :laughing:

Peace, and guitars.

That makes me think of a great acoustic song about that subject…

youtube.com/watch?v=SU0lQsE0kU8

Have fun …

Good song/performance. That guy might have a future…

Chad - PM sent

If I remember correctly, Luther called the book of James “an epistle of straw.”

Luther appears to me to be wrong. At least, I have found James to be a breath of fresh, no-nonsense air.

Sorry to go off topic but Dave you make custom guitars?

PM sent

I think you are right. I think he was the first to translate the Bible into German. So you gotta wonder how much of his slant was put into his translation just as all translations. :wink:

The Greek word translated as “faith” in Romans 3:28 and in many other places in the Bible is pistis. One of the two main definitions of pistis is indeed “faithfulness.” And that definition helps remove the apparent if not real contradiction in the sheep and goats parable given by Jesus. In that parable, Jesus does not say a word about faith as saving the sheep. Instead he emphasizes that the sheep did good things for others in need. These things are precisely the sorts of things that Jesus himself did or would do. Having faithfulness in Jesus or being faithful to Jesus likely entails following his example or following his admonitions, e.g., loving others. Thus, the “faithfulness” definition of pistis makes the parable more compatible with the rest of scripture that emphasizes pistis. It’s less compatible if “faith” were intended as the definition, for as you said, why would faith in Jesus necessarily lead to such admirable behavior?

Yes, I agree. Regarding pistis as ‘faithfulness’ also sheds light on Paul’s saying ‘from pistis to pistis’ - translating as ‘faith’ is difficult; but by using ‘faithfulness’ in each position gives us what probably is Paul’s real meaning - that he, Paul, is laying out the utter faithfulness of God to the Abrahamic covenant even in the light of Jewish and gentile faithlessness, and that understanding of God’s faithfulness leads us to faithfulness.
From faithfulness TO faithfulness.

Luther’s translation into German may be superior to most or at least many translations. Several times when I have pointed out specific passages in which the Greek text differs a lot from the King James translation, Mennonites who were present and who regularly use Luther’s translation, have told me that the meaning in Greek that I pointed out, was the same as the meaning that comes out in Luther’s translation. I can’t vouch for the accuracy of that statement since I am not familiar with the German language.

My reading of what Luther was like is that he was a very um, Very stoic, and he had very strong individualistic views. Maybe you have read differently :laughing: