The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Whose Faith?

It’s not just the evangelicals who believe in the paradoxical mystery of the Trinity, it’s also the Anglican, Orthodox, and Catholic.

God = Jesus

God = Father

God = Holy Spirit

Jesus gave us the example as He trusted and relied upon the Father. God has faith in God therefore I have faith in God. That is, I believe God to keep His promises. I rest in Him as I surrender in trust of His Divine providence. He holds my future in His hands. For He promises to work everything together for good for those that love Him. And I love Him. I love Him because He first loved me in His suffering death and resurrection. I have hope. The past is blotted out and my future is secure. I’m free to live in the present moment. And in the present moment are treasures eternal. I have surrendered under His rulership. He is my Lord and in control. It’s by the joy set before me that I endure.

Wow, how can we not think that God had faith in his people (children… wife… Israel) that he would not act on their part? By gosh he sent his son :open_mouth: How much more faith and love can you have? :confused:

Simple as apple pie but we screw it up every time.

Chad - If by ‘believing in his children’ is what you mean, I"m all in agreement.

Truly, I do not think that is what MW was saying; if by ‘the faith of God’ he meant that God is our Father, that he believes in and encourages his children - well of course!! Why would I have trouble understanding that?

But that is not what he said. It’s not what he meant.
I am done with MW at this point. ’

Chad - If by ‘believing in his children’ is what you mean by the words ‘the faith of God’, I"m all in agreement. But it did not take MW to teach you that, I"m pretty certain. It has been believed since the beginning. Why would I think otherwise??

And after reading Benny Hinn and others, and their ‘new revelation’ about the ‘faith of God’, I KNOW that they are not talking about His ‘belief’ in his kids.

First of all, I would have to point out that the creator God, might have a reason and a plan and a useful reason for His creation. :astonished:

DaveB said:

Hmmm. But what about the idea that he see’s his creation who he gave free will to acting out in behavior less than becoming, (like our own little children) and He loves us and has faith that we will rise to the occasion (much like we do with our own kids) I think this is a plausible position. Dave I realize it is simplistic, but that is me :laughing:

So can I ask what you think MW is saying? What don’t you like about his message? I would truly appreciate it :smiley:

I’ve never thought differently, brother.

I’ve never thought differenty, brother!! :smiley:

I am done with MW, Chad.

To me, having the faith of Jesus is believing in and following the same God that He did. “The one who is righteous will live by faith” as I understand it means we live by belief in the same set of values( truth, love, forgiveness, compassion, the Golden Rule etc.etc.) that God has put in our hearts and minds.

I like that, and agree with you!

MM. You can have faith in your child. However, if your child has no faith in the power of the Spirit that is within him as well, he won’t accomplish much. This is what happened to Peter.When he got out of the boat to walk on the water, he sank.

And THAT makes the very point of this whole discussion… the gospel is about the revelation of “whose faith?” — God’s faith, i.e., “His belief” in each of us, to where we can cast aside our own insufficient faith (belief) and grasp His with solid assurance — because He alone is faithful!!!

Is it the “=” sign that is confusing?
I was responding to something said earlier, to the effect that, since Jesus is God, and Jesus had faith, that therefore God has faith.

“Jesus is God” is a huge statement, and an ambiguous one, but we’ve hashed that over in other threads for years now. Wouldn’t you say that almost without exception, most evangelicals would say ‘Yes’ to the following question: “Is Jesus God”?

Davo, I think you and MW are grasping at straws. If a person has no faith in his own God given abilities to “move mountains” , he’s not going to move squat.
In reference to “whose faith”, there are many different faiths out there to pick and choose from. Having the faith of Jesus is following the same God that He believed in followed.

I assume MW is the person, who made the YouTube message at youtu.be/-L_vfdJG88w - Davo referred to. Since he has ONLY 300 or so hits, I don’t thinks folks have much faith - in his message. They are probably saying this: :laughing:

But that is kind of the point, (and you just said it very well) the point that God sent his heavenly son to his earthy sons and daughters to take away their sins, something that the law proved beyond a doubt they could not do for themselves. God showed his faithfulness in wanting the best for his creation.

MM, As I said to Davo above… Jesus did not take away our sin. He showed us the way, and if we neither believe in, nor follow that way, our sin remains. As Isaiah says, “Cease to do evil, and learn to do good. Though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be white as snow.”

But you gotta love the theme music from the Alan Parsons Project…

There could indeed be echoes of this in terms of…

Sure, I’d say that. But the BIG question is, “What do various people MEAN when they state that ‘Jesus is God’?”

1.When a Modalist (for example, a United Pentecostal) says “Jesus is God,” he means that God is a single divine Individual, and that His name is “Jesus.”

  1. The Trinitarian believes God is a Trinity. Therefore each member of the Trinity is God. Thus Jesus is God. Probably most evangelicals hold to this position.

  2. The early Christians affirmed that Jesus is God. Sometimes they used the word “God” to refer to the Father alone, and other times they used in in a generic sense, just as we often use “man” in a generic sense. Since you are the son of a human being, you are “man.” Since Jesus is the son of God, He is God (in the generic sense). This is the sense in which John 1:1 states “…and the Word was God.”

This is the sense in which John 1:1 states “…and the Word was God.”
Paidion

Why not “The Word is God” , because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us therefore Jesus is God like the Word was God. It seems to me the Father is the source and from him came the Spirit and the Word.

Steve, I think it is about our faith. There was an age old battle going on between the Israelites which seems to have started after the exodus from Egypt. It was between the sons of Ishmael(prodigal/"illegitimate) and the sons of Isaac( ones who followed the one true God). It was a house divided.
They were going by two different:

  1. faiths-beliefs about God
    2.Laws- the Jewish/Lev. law vs. the Law of Christ
    3.mountains- the Levitical law from Mount Sinai vs. the Law of Christ from Mount Horeb.
    4.trees- one bearing bad fruit vs. one bearing good fruit
  2. seeds- those of the physical seed of Abraham vs. those of the spiritual seed.
    In the end, they were separated by the final destruction of Jerusalem. I believe that those who stood in their faith in the one true God played a big part in making that happen. There are STILL many false religions and false beliefs that exist today. We must decide which faith to live by because there is only one that gives us true life.

My point exactly.