I believe this is a very strained reach around in the face of Kolasis’ etymological core that makes itself plainly known, that of corrective nuances and remedial usage. As for the uses of paideia and paideuo, it is only valid if one assumes that only “Christians” are God’s children, a position which is violent and strained, but is especially a position that is unworthy of the glorious God.
At any such rate, God’s justice is not vindictive, and as many on this site have shown time and time again - there are vast multitudes of reasons to believe that any form of punishment inflicted on any individual will and always is for that individual’s betterment.
I will be making another thread in answer to this passage, when I have time, and if I decide to do so.
[size=85]*Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(Matthew 16:24-28 - KJV)
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life shall lose it, but whoever loses his life on account of Me shall find it. For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give as an exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will render to each according to his works. Assuredly I say to you, there are some standing here who will by no means taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
(Matthew 16:24-28 - EMTV)
*[/size]
Everyone will be rewarded according to their work. If we are not saved by our works, then it follows reasonably that the state of our salvation will not be determined by this judgement, rather it is the state of our rewards that will be determined.
This is likewise supported by yet another verse which deals with the same theme;
[size=85]Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(1 Corinthians 3:13-15 -KJV)[/size]
[size=85]Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(1 Corinthians 3:13-15 -EMTV)[/size]
Everyone will be rewarded according to their work, everyone’s work will be revealed for what it is, the Day of the Lord will declare it; revealed by fire, and the fire will test everyone’s work of what sort it is. The works which are good shall remain and reward shall be received. The works which are not good shall be burned up and be lost and loss will be suffered; though the worker, everyone, will be saved - yet so as by fire.
As for salvation, if it should be brought up, in regards to the passage I have drawn up a translation of Matthew 16:24-28, “Lefein’s” Version or “LV” if you will.
[size=85]*Matthew 16:24 Τότε ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς εἶπε τοῖς μαθηταῖς αὐτοῦ· εἴ τις θέλει ὀπίσω μου ἐλθεῖν, ἀπαρνησάσθω ἑαυτὸν καὶ ἀράτω τὸν σταυρὸν αὐτοῦ καὶ ἀκολουθείτω μοι.
Then Jesus said to the disciples, if anyone is willing to come after me, let him renounce himself and let him lift his cross and let him follow me.
Matthew 16:25 ὃς γὰρ ἂν θέλῃ τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ σῶσαι, ἀπολέσει αὐτήν· ὃς δ᾿ ἂν ἀπολέσῃ τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ ἕνεκεν ἐμοῦ, εὑρήσει αὐτήν.
For who ever may be willing to save his soul, shall destroy [lose] it. Yet who ever should destroy [lose] his soul by reason of me shall find it.
Matthew 16:25 ὃς γὰρ ἂν θέλῃ τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ σῶσαι, ἀπολέσει αὐτήν· ὃς δ᾿ ἂν ἀπολέσῃ τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ ἕνεκεν ἐμοῦ, εὑρήσει αὐτήν.
For what benefits a man [mankind] if ever he should gain the whole cosmos, yet damages his soul? What shall man [mankind] give as ransom [an equivalent] for his soul?
Matthew 16:27 μέλλει γὰρ ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἔρχεσθαι ἐν τῇ δόξῃ τοῦ πατρὸς αὐτοῦ μετὰ τῶν ἀγγέλων αὐτοῦ, καὶ τότε ἀποδώσει ἑκάστῳ κατὰ τὴν πρᾶξιν αὐτοῦ.
For the Son of Man [expectantly intends] to come in the glory of his Father, with his Messengers, and then he shall give to each according to his practice.
Matthew 16:28 ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, εἰσί τινες τῶν ὧδε ἑστηκότων, οἵτινες οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσι τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ αὐτοῦ.
Amen I say to ye, there are some of the ones standing here who shall never taste death til they percieve the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom.*[/size]
Matthew 16:24-28 gives us the following themes;
If you wish to follow Christ, deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow. If you will to save your soul, you will lose it, or destroy it. If you lose your soul, or destroy it, by reason of (because of) Christ you shall find it.
It doesn’t benefit a man, or mankind, to gain everything, even the whole cosmos, and yet harm his soul in the process. It doesn’t benefit man, or mankind, to have everything and yet have a damaged soul. The man, even if he has everything, has nothing with which he can ransom his soul, and nothing that can take the place of his soul; nothing that is equivalent to it in value or genuine worth. Likewise, the man if he should damage his soul, he has nothing of equivalency to exchange as a ransom for it, or as payment for its healing. It is in this that I can see great revelation for God’s mercy and grace, we earn nothing, but all is given freely.
Everyone will be rewarded according to their works; the works that are built on the foundation of Christ will secure reward, those built on the foundations apart from Christ and all he in fullness of Godhead express and represents, will cause suffering with its loss. But the man, everyone, will be saved though as by fire.
Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess. Revelation 16:7-9 does not imply a permanent, ceaseless condition. Revelation 20:10-15 likewise does not, for reasons of which many can argue from many angles. Namely the angles dealing with the wrongful translation of “into the eons of the eons” into “for ever and ever”, and the angles dealing with the specific nature of the Lake of Fire in which they are being tormented.
I am quite convinced you are incorrect. They are being tormented in the presence of The Lamb, who is Christ, by reason of whom those cast into it lose their soul, their life, for it is the Second Death. If they lose their soul, are destroyed, lose their life by reason of Christ - then they shall find their soul, their life, and shall find it in him. Christ who shall baptise, immerse, all in the Holy Spirit and in Fire, thus goes the prophecy as given by Saint John the Baptist.
There is Biblical reason to believe that the Lake of Fire describes the very presence of God.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
(Revelation 3:19)